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Post by captbob on Jan 23, 2008 10:01:07 GMT -5
I am hoping that those of you with big slab saws can help me with a couple of questions.
I got my Highland Park 24" saw and now it's a question of how much oil and what kind to use. Just eyeballing it, I'm guessing I will need at LEAST 20 gallons of oil.
I've read (and been told) that by adding items to the tank, to take up some of the volume, that I can reduce the amount of oil needed. Do any of you do that, and what do you use - bricks? Is there a problem that something put in to take up space would shift - possibly due to vibration - and slide into the saw blade?
Next question is about what type of lubricant to use. The last owner of this saw used Almag. That's some pretty smelly stuff. I read all I can find on different choices and believe that I would like to use mineral oil (although I am finding it difficult to find locally) because it won't have the smell factor.
I've read that mineral oil will work fine. Comments or thoughts to the contary would be appreciated.
When calling around looking for mineral oil, the oil distributors ask me what kind - saying it's like motor oil with different weights (?) I know there is "food grade" (which I don't think I need) but other than that I'm probably sounding pretty stupid to these guys on the phone. Help - I need some schoolin'!!
Is there a specific brand name and/or number I can ask these people for? I thought about looking online, but the shipping cost would probably be rather high.
This is my first slab saw and it's going to be a learn as ya go experience, so I'm open to all advice and suggestions!
Sorry for the long post and thank you for any replies.
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deedolce
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2006
Posts: 1,828
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Post by deedolce on Jan 23, 2008 10:20:59 GMT -5
I'm not one of the 'big saw guys' but I use food grade mineral oil I got at the feed store used for animals as a 'livestock drug'. Paid $13.50 a gallon. It would have been a little less if I bought 4 gallon jugs at a time. You can ask about 5 gallon containers too, although mine couldn't do it.
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rallyrocks
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since November 2005
Posts: 1,507
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Post by rallyrocks on Jan 23, 2008 11:20:51 GMT -5
The trade off putting things in the tank is twofold- Yes there is a danger of them getting loose and migrating into the blade, and that can be a bad thing- with a 24" blade, it can be an expensive mistake as well.
Less oil will get dirty faster and require more frequent changing/filtering, and you have those messy bricks to deal with.
What stoner did (and I was going to, but got lazy) was to craft a plywood "channel" that lays in the tank and attempts to keep the oil concentrated in a v-shaped "tank liner" if you will.
The side benefit of stoner's arrangement is that while oil does leak around or through the plywood, what comes out of the spigot at the bottom is already filtered, so he just scoops out the sludge left on top of the plywood and pours the stuff out of the bottom back in on top, cleaning and oil filtering are nearly automatic.
You might call around and see if a local machine shop has a hook-up for cutting oil. The CC-22 I got smells a little, but not too terribly badly, and $40 for 5 gallons is a heck of a lot better than the $15-$20/gallon I keep hearing about
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RedwoodRocks
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since March 2003
Posts: 762
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Post by RedwoodRocks on Jan 23, 2008 12:20:29 GMT -5
I used bricks in my slab saw, I never had a problem with the brick moving around. Today, I use a pump to move the oil to the blade. I have switched over to tech-grade mineral oil. I can't recall the website - Something Hobby (I can look tonight when I get home). The cost was comparable to Pell A.
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,455
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Post by Sabre52 on Jan 23, 2008 12:43:05 GMT -5
Wow! The tank shouldn't take 20 gallons. My 20" HP only takes about 7-8 gallons. Only the edge 3/4 inch or so of the blade has to be submerged. I'm using Covington's Rock hound oil now that runs about $65 for five gallons and it's not too smelly and works very well. Plus, they ship super fast right to your door.....Mel
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Post by bobby1 on Jan 23, 2008 18:32:13 GMT -5
I read recently somewhere that they were using baby oil from Walmart bought in large size containers for a few dollars. A bit smelly for a short while but the odors went away. I haven't used it yet personally. (I think my wife would have some interesting questions about what I am doing and whom I am doing it with in the garage that needs baby oil!). Bob
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Post by catmandewe on Jan 23, 2008 21:12:05 GMT -5
thats funny bobby1!
I get technical grade mineral oil, from United Oil Wholesalers. It is used around here to spray on dirt roads to keep the dust down. The cost is $4.85 a gallon, or 24 something for a 5 gallon bucket. The last time I went in the guy said he would do me a deal on a 55 gallon drum, and it would be around 3.50-4.00 a gallon. I'll keep filtering and see how much I lose. Your saw should use somewhere between 5-10 gallons. I wouldnt use anything to displace oil as it will sludge up faster, the more oil you have the longer it takes to get dirty. Call around and see if you can find a oil wholesaler in your area, should be able to save some mooola that way................................Tony
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rockdewd
has rocks in the head
Member since October 2007
Posts: 605
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Post by rockdewd on Jan 24, 2008 16:03:08 GMT -5
I did a lot of research and trial and error on mineral oil. I first bought the Mineral Oil from Wallgreens but it had a consistency of cough syrup. The rock debris wouldn't settle out and it turned to a pudding like consistency. The difference between food grade mineral oil and tech grade mineral oil (or white mineral oil) is that the food grade mineral oil containers must be filled in a clean room environment. So they are virtually the same. The food grade is a bit more expensive because of the clean room requirement. There is a difference in viscosity. Food and tech grade come in 70, 200, 350, and 500. 70 is the lightest and is what you want for lapidary saws. Baby oil is mineral oil and fragrance. It is probably food grade being that it's intended use is for babies. And is the right viscosity for lapidary saws. There is a company in Texas called STE Oil Co. that sells food and tech grade mineral oil by as small as 4oz, 1 gal, 5 gal, 55 gallon, 330 gallon, tanker truck, etc. Their 5-gallon 70 is $62.90 for 5 gallons. Which is about the best price I could find. Kingsley has their 5-gallon mineral oil priced at $90 last time I checked. STE's web site is: www.steoil.com/The best deal on saw oil I have found is transformer oil. Electrical utilities and companies that refurb transformers are required to test the oil for PCBs first before they can sell it for recycling. Otherwise it must be handled like toxic waste. They then sell it to recyclers or whoever can come with a 55 gallon barrel and haul it away. I have a friend in KS that buys it for 50 cents a gallon and sells it to me for $1 a gallon. His son lives in Colorado Springs and every time he goes and visits his parents he gives me a call and sees if I need any oil. I give him $20 for gas and $20 for 20 gallons of oil. We transport it in 5-gallon gas cans that Walmart sells for $5.50. Transformer oil is mineral oil with additives that raise the flash point to about 300 F. So it is extremely safe. It does have a yellow tint to it though. It's breathing the oil mist that is bad for you. Almag and Pella are possible carcinogens when the oil mist is breathed. Breathing mineral oil mist is not good either because you can get a type of "oil" pneumonia. I don't know how much you would have to breath to get that. I think you would have to have your head inside the saw cabinet while it is running. But since mineral oil is water soluble I wouldn't think it would build up over time. I would think your body would dissolve any that got in your lungs. But then I'm not a doctor but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night. Rick
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Post by stonesthatrock on Jan 24, 2008 16:19:58 GMT -5
ditto on what was said above, i use mineral oil and 5 gal. is enough for my 18". I use bricks in the bottom and never had a problem with them moving, just rocks falling out and bending the blade. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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Post by captbob on Jan 24, 2008 23:29:39 GMT -5
Thank you all for your replies. I'll be calling around tomorrow to see what I can come up with. Now I won't sound like such a boob to those I speak with! A special thanks to Rick, that was just the kinda schoolin' I was looking for! I won't be placing anything in the tank to displace the oil. And I will be getting a 2nd mortgage to cover the oil expense. I understand why some folks use stuff like kerosene and motor oil, I had no idea I was going to be spending over $200 just for saw oil! That first slab I sell is gonna be mighty expensive. I figure $3,500 is a fair price (no matter the mineral type) and then I'm even and can sell the rest of them at normal prices! ;D
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rockdewd
has rocks in the head
Member since October 2007
Posts: 605
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Post by rockdewd on Jan 25, 2008 0:21:27 GMT -5
De Nada Capt Bob.
Hopefully I saved you from buying the wrong oil...
Rick
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mikeinsjc
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2010
Posts: 329
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Post by mikeinsjc on Nov 24, 2017 13:22:36 GMT -5
captn, I run two 24" HP saws. I counsel against filling your saw with stuff to reduce oil volume, as cleaning the oil is a mess and a hassle.
Keep in mind you will breathe whatever oil you use. Using kerosene, transformer oil, etc may be tempting to save a few $, but I don't think it's worth the risk. The other issue using thicker petroleum-based fluids presents is that certain materials (like some petrified wood) will absorb the oil, and unless you bake it following cutting, it might ooze this stuff for a while, preventing you from ever getting a decent polish. My friend uses kerosene in his 36 and has an electric oven out back where he bakes the absorbent stuff. Also, in theory thicker oils will not allow the grit to settle out as rapidly, theoretically causing faster blade wear, but that doesn't seem quantifiable to me so it's probably just a theory.
I use the mineral oil from Stellar Lubricants. I pay somewhere around $12/ gal, but I buy it 60 gallons at a time. I use this stuff because of the individuals I know and respect that use it. One operation I know runs 10-15 larger saws indoors more or less continuously and this is their oil of choice.
Are all mineral oils created equally? I doubt it, but examining the data sheets will probably not tell you much unless you are a ChemE. It doesn't seem to me a mineral oil gentle enough to feed animals would necessarily be suitable for abrasive, higher temperature applications, but I really don't know.
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Post by captbob on Nov 24, 2017 14:01:55 GMT -5
LOL 24 days until my 10 year anniversary here - wonder if I'll make it... and this thread is almost that old!
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Post by woodman on Nov 24, 2017 14:19:43 GMT -5
I use diesel in my 30 inch saw with no problems at all. when a cut is finished i wait a long time to let the mist settle out before opening the lid. on my 18 i use either used automatic transmission oil or mineral oil. the ATF separates the solids out real good. I do use an oven to cook out any oil. if not you will never get a polish.
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Post by Rockoonz on Nov 25, 2017 3:14:37 GMT -5
With the Stellar lubricants I can drop a slab into the kitty litter for an couple hours, move it to a bucket with degreaser or wash it with soapy water, wipe it off with isopropyl alcohol and immediately glue it or polish it. Automotive lubricants are designed to stay on what you put them on.
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mikeinsjc
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2010
Posts: 329
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Post by mikeinsjc on Nov 25, 2017 12:10:26 GMT -5
rockoonz, exactly what I do.
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Post by woodman on Nov 25, 2017 18:18:40 GMT -5
With the Stellar lubricants I can drop a slab into the kitty litter for an couple hours, move it to a bucket with degreaser or wash it with soapy water, wipe it off with isopropyl alcohol and immediately glue it or polish it. Automotive lubricants are designed to stay on what you put them on. Stellar lubricants are not accepting orders.
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Post by rmf on Nov 25, 2017 18:32:13 GMT -5
The value in using food grade 70 weight mineral oil is that if you inhale the fumes they will not hurt your lungs. Food grade mineral oil is relatively inert. What I do is use a rubbermade tote and put two doubled paper grocery bags in the tote. I then scoop out the saw muck (as needed) and dump it in the bags. These act as a filter that drains into the tote and I have holes drilled into that which drains into a 35gal drum. When I need to replenish my oil it comes from the drum and when the bags get half full of muck I dump them.
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Post by Rockoonz on Nov 25, 2017 21:27:34 GMT -5
With the Stellar lubricants I can drop a slab into the kitty litter for an couple hours, move it to a bucket with degreaser or wash it with soapy water, wipe it off with isopropyl alcohol and immediately glue it or polish it. Automotive lubricants are designed to stay on what you put them on. Stellar lubricants are not accepting orders. He delivered 17 pails for the rock club a couple weeks before the Portland Regional along with some drums for other NW customers. Perhaps he's stocking up for Qsite. He gets it from a refinery in Pennsylvania and they may do periodic maintenance shut downs as well. I got a drum about a year ago so I'm good for awhile, but I better let the club know to keep a little extra on reserve for their shop, in case his wait times get longer. Thanks for the info.
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