NRG
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,630
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Post by NRG on Mar 23, 2018 11:40:10 GMT -5
It never has, I ignited it one time by accident with my torch. Just put the cover on. Not like it will explode. I usually just use a peanut butter jar. I have a glass jar now with a hinged glass cover and an old time rubber gasket. I think the container should be big enough and set away from the edge that just a random bump won't tip it or knock it off. I have a fire extinguisher with in reach. When I first started smithing I learned to start with the alcohol and boric then quench in it. Then it went into a hot solution of the old spic and span to clean off the flux. Didn't work too bad. I think they changed the formula since then. Last week I did light my alcohol/boric acid jar on fire on purpose. I wanted to make sure I would be prepared, not panic and be knowledgeable about how to put it out. Practice prevents piss poor performance!
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Post by aDave on Mar 23, 2018 12:07:33 GMT -5
Some things if they will fit in my jar I will quench it in the denatured alcohol mixture before the pickle. Thank you for all the information! I feel better about using my roach powder. If you are quenching the hot piece in the solution you aren't afraid it will flash ignite? Ann, the ignition temp of isopropyl alcohol (pure) is about 750 F. Store bought rubbing alcohol is going to be even higher since it's generally not pure. I don't know the process of what you folks are doing, but I can't imagine a piece being hot enough to ignite the vapors. The biggest concern would be an open flame in the work area and sufficient vapor being present to ignite.
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NRG
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,630
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Post by NRG on Mar 23, 2018 12:48:53 GMT -5
Thank you for all the information! I feel better about using my roach powder. If you are quenching the hot piece in the solution you aren't afraid it will flash ignite? Ann, the ignition temp of isopropyl alcohol (pure) is about 750 F. Store bought rubbing alcohol is going to be even higher since it's generally not pure. I don't know the process of what you folks are doing, but I can't imagine a piece being hot enough to ignite the vapors. The biggest concern would be an open flame in the work area and sufficient vapor being present to ignite. Soldering of silver metal likely could ignite alcohol vapours, the reason it normally doesn't is those vapours are too dense, not enough oxygen. You can explain the three corners of the fire triangle better than I.
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Post by aDave on Mar 23, 2018 13:01:14 GMT -5
Ann, the ignition temp of isopropyl alcohol (pure) is about 750 F. Store bought rubbing alcohol is going to be even higher since it's generally not pure. I don't know the process of what you folks are doing, but I can't imagine a piece being hot enough to ignite the vapors. The biggest concern would be an open flame in the work area and sufficient vapor being present to ignite. Soldering of silver metal likely could ignite alcohol vapours, the reason it normally doesn't is those vapours are too dense, not enough oxygen. You can explain the three corners of the fire triangle better than I. I wasn't sure what was being done with the stuff specifically. I saw the mention of "quenching" the piece, so I was envisioning the piece being dunked in the solution for some reason. And, you're right about having the right amount of vapor to oxygen mixture which is normally expressed in a range known as the lower/upper flammable or explosive limits.
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Post by fantastic5 on Mar 23, 2018 21:25:19 GMT -5
Soldering of silver metal likely could ignite alcohol vapours, the reason it normally doesn't is those vapours are too dense, not enough oxygen. You can explain the three corners of the fire triangle better than I. I wasn't sure what was being done with the stuff specifically. I saw the mention of "quenching" the piece, so I was envisioning the piece being dunked in the solution for some reason. And, you're right about having the right amount of vapor to oxygen mixture which is normally expressed in a range known as the lower/upper flammable or explosive limits. Thanks for the information about the flash points aDave. I use the denatured alcohol and boric acid as a fire scale preventative. Dip the cold piece into the solution, move to the solderite board, then ignite. The alcohol burns off and leaves a fine powder coating that helps protect sterling pieces. I keep mine in a mason jar on my desk in the same location where I do my soldering. I've read on blogs that people had accidentally started the container on fire. Which is why I purposely lit mine on fire in the kitchen sink the other day just so I could see how it behaved and how easy it was to put the lid on to snuff the fire. I had not been quenching my hot pieces in the solution, and probably wont. They just get dropped in the pickle pot.
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Post by aDave on Mar 24, 2018 11:35:56 GMT -5
I wasn't sure what was being done with the stuff specifically. I saw the mention of "quenching" the piece, so I was envisioning the piece being dunked in the solution for some reason. And, you're right about having the right amount of vapor to oxygen mixture which is normally expressed in a range known as the lower/upper flammable or explosive limits. Thanks for the information about the flash points aDave . I use the denatured alcohol and boric acid as a fire scale preventative. Dip the cold piece into the solution, move to the solderite board, then ignite. The alcohol burns off and leaves a fine powder coating that helps protect sterling pieces. I keep mine in a mason jar on my desk in the same location where I do my soldering. I've read on blogs that people had accidentally started the container on fire. Which is why I purposely lit mine on fire in the kitchen sink the other day just so I could see how it behaved and how easy it was to put the lid on to snuff the fire. I had not been quenching my hot pieces in the solution, and probably wont. They just get dropped in the pickle pot. Thanks for the explanation, Ann. I guess I learned something today.
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Post by opalpyrexia on Mar 24, 2018 16:53:21 GMT -5
Regarding the spraying of Pripps, some may find this useful. I used to spray onto the piece with a small cardboard box to contain overspray. That worked fairly well but the box always absorbed some of it and occasionally leaked. I found that I was using up my mixture fairly quickly, too. I wondered if there was a way to salvage some of the overspray and fix the mess, too. So I found a rectangular 2.5 liter polypropylene food container at a thrift store. It was slightly tapered from the opening to the base, which would allow overspray to collect in the bottom (back) when the container was turned on its side. I also added some rubber feet to the front edge to increase that tilt to allow for more Pripps to be collected. I use a 5-ounce Fructis hairspray bottle to spray Pripps. I cut about 1/2 inch off of the end of the internal tube. That ensures that the sprayer won't clog from precipitated Pripps floating around on the bottom of the bottle. (Try saying 'precipitated Pripps' 5 times fast! After spraying a piece, I wipe the sprayer nozzle, replace the cover, and remove the pump from the bottle. Then I pick up the food container, tilt it to one side, and pour the oversprayed liquid back into the bottle. I figure that I'm saving about 50-60% of what I sprayed.
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Post by melhill1659 on Mar 26, 2018 8:32:56 GMT -5
Good Morning Beautiful In my old metal smithing book it says to coat and dry 3 or more times for fire scale preventative. My Lack of patience hasn’t let me try that. If I get the little darker spot I grab some fine sandpaper and get it off.
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Post by fantastic5 on Mar 26, 2018 20:20:12 GMT -5
Good Morning Beautiful In my old metal smithing book it says to coat and dry 3 or more times for fire scale preventative. My Lack of patience hasn’t let me try that. If I get the little darker spot I grab some fine sandpaper and get it off. Where have you been? Haven't seen you posting much these days. Let's see some of that fantastic work your creating!
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Post by melhill1659 on Mar 27, 2018 19:34:19 GMT -5
Good Morning Beautiful In my old metal smithing book it says to coat and dry 3 or more times for fire scale preventative. My Lack of patience hasn’t let me try that. If I get the little darker spot I grab some fine sandpaper and get it off. Where have you been? Haven't seen you posting much these days. Let's see some of that fantastic work your creating! Hate to say that my “creating” has been totally fixated on the camper redo, my Way-More-Involved new position with my local Gem&Mineral Society oh and 2nd DAY BEING SMOKE FREE AND CRAZY!
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Post by toiv0 on Mar 27, 2018 20:06:20 GMT -5
Soldering of silver metal likely could ignite alcohol vapours, the reason it normally doesn't is those vapours are too dense, not enough oxygen. You can explain the three corners of the fire triangle better than I. I wasn't sure what was being done with the stuff specifically. I saw the mention of "quenching" the piece, so I was envisioning the piece being dunked in the solution for some reason. And, you're right about having the right amount of vapor to oxygen mixture which is normally expressed in a range known as the lower/upper flammable or explosive limits. I still do quench in the alcohol mixture, hard habit to break. When I aneal I use the alcohol instead of water also.
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Post by fantastic5 on Mar 28, 2018 20:53:59 GMT -5
Congrats on smoke free! I've never had to go through that myself, but have lived with people who were quitting. Take it one minute at a time, and it's great that you are so busy, that'll help! Looking forward to seeing the camper in June. Excited for some serious collecting!
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