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Post by youp50 on Apr 18, 2017 7:15:03 GMT -5
When running AO 80 in a vibe is it advisable to have an additional bowl for AO 1400 polish?
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notjustone
spending too much on rocks
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Post by notjustone on Apr 18, 2017 8:07:28 GMT -5
I asked myself this same question after jamesp said something along the lines of half of the rocks improving in polish. which tells me that the ao pretty much broke down that far. just to be safe I'm letting the batch I'm doing now go 6 or 7 days in the vibe with the ao. then a good thorough cleanout and a day or 2 in polish will see how they come out.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Apr 18, 2017 19:03:08 GMT -5
I asked myself this same question after jamesp said something along the lines of half of the rocks improving in polish. which tells me that the ao pretty much broke down that far. just to be safe I'm letting the batch I'm doing now go 6 or 7 days in the vibe with the ao. then a good thorough cleanout and a day or 2 in polish will see how they come out. In the Vibrasonic vibe the rocks have a reflective decent polish after 24 hours in the AO 80. After 2-3 days they are darn shiny. It seems a bit more aggressive than a Lot-O. Anyway, after 24 it looks like the AO 80 is about AO 3000 judging from the decent polish. If it was only broken to 1000 there would not be much polish at all. I have one vibe bowl. I run SiC 30 SiC 80 AO 22 AO 80 and SiC 14,000 in it. Extra bowl seems redundant for polish in my situation anyway.
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napoleonrags
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Post by napoleonrags on Apr 18, 2017 21:43:32 GMT -5
In the Lot-o the ao80 did not break down all the way, but the shine, in the end, was fine.
History: I pulled rocks out of rotery. Put in Lot-O with ao80 without any augmentation and buzzed away. After four days, dumped out and felt/noticed small particles during cleanout. Pulled an agate (Northern Colorado Rootbeer Agate), let dry, and was reasonably shiney.
Did not like, however, the gritty remains, so I reloaded and rebuzzed with ao80 with a couple tablespoons of Borax, hoping to thicken to pick up grit. Every day I would stop the buzz and turn the barrels upside-down with a vigorous shake.
In the end still a lot of grit. Cleaning off not fun. Shine turned out fine.
Don't like the remaining grit and rigimoral. Might try ao120. But for the time being going to stick with the three-step: roll 30 sic, buzz sic 120 for 4 days, polish for at least 1 day.
That's what I do.
Gather no moss, Colin.
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Post by spiceman on Apr 18, 2017 22:49:19 GMT -5
Yes, I add a step in between sic 120 and polish, not a big difference. Don't try to fix something that isn't broke.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Apr 19, 2017 5:42:42 GMT -5
In the Lot-o the ao80 did not break down all the way, but the shine, in the end, was fine. History: I pulled rocks out of rotery. Put in Lot-O with ao80 without any augmentation and buzzed away. After four days, dumped out and felt/noticed small particles during cleanout. Pulled an agate (Northern Colorado Rootbeer Agate), let dry, and was reasonably shiney. Did not like, however, the gritty remains, so I reloaded and rebuzzed with ao80 with a couple tablespoons of Borax, hoping to thicken to pick up grit. Every day I would stop the buzz and turn the barrels upside-down with a vigorous shake. In the end still a lot of grit. Cleaning off not fun. Shine turned out fine. Don't like the remaining grit and rigimoral. Might try ao120. But for the time being going to stick with the three-step: roll 30 sic, buzz sic 120 for 4 days, polish for at least 1 day. That's what I do. Gather no moss, Colin. I tinkered running very coarse AO 22 in the vibe. After a 3 day run the AO 22 particles were still there. Same experience you had with the AO 80. Rocks had a fine shine, but those AO 22's were still in the vibe. But smoother(under magnification). Be aware, most ceramic media is also pure aluminum oxide. It is fused aluminum oxide = ceramic. If you run aluminum oxide ceramic media with SiC 80 it will have a rough finish. If you run it with AO 1000 it will have a decent polish. If you run it with AO 14,000 it will have a wet shine. The AO 80 and AO 22 particles are behaving just like ceramic media. Because they are both aluminum oxide. They are just smaller and smoother after a few days in the vibe. It doesn't hurt a thing. The particles start out sharp/rough, end up smooth. Just like the rocks. They did their job. They start out rough and remove the rough finish from coarse grind. Then evolve to smooth to lay down a polish. That is why you can reuse aluminum oxide polish over and over and it gets smoother and smoother. I can' forget the first run with AO 22. This rock was darn polished after the 3 days AO 22. After the AO 22 vibe run it only saw 18 hours with AO 14,000:
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Apr 19, 2017 5:46:30 GMT -5
The only reason I bought 10 pounds of AO 22 was because I did not believe I was getting such good polish using AO 80. Thought I would take it to the extreme. I'm telling you, you could get AO 2(rough +BB size AO) and it would do the exact same thing. Crazy.
Aluminum oxide and silicon carbide are both in fact ceramics. Silicon carbide noted for being brittle. Aluminum oxide noted for being tough. Silicon carbide breaks into pieces. Aluminum oxide does not break, it rounds.
If you look at AO 500 slurry after it has been in a vibe for 3 days you will find AO 500 in the slurry(under a microscope). But rounded to almost balls. It does not go away unless run a very long time. For the same reason aluminum oxide ceramic media lasts for a long time. It is Mohs 9.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Apr 19, 2017 5:56:28 GMT -5
For these reasons coarse aluminum oxide is a perfect finishing abrasive for tumbling.
Betcha $6.82 you won't find AO 22-46-60-70-80-90-120 at any of the tumbling grit suppliers....Rock Shed-Lortone-Pacific, not any of them.
That's fine, the sand blasting industry uses it by the ton. Ebay
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notjustone
spending too much on rocks
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Post by notjustone on Apr 19, 2017 7:33:50 GMT -5
The only reason I bought 10 pounds of AO 22 was because I did not believe I was getting such good polish using AO 80. Thought I would take it to the extreme. I'm telling you, you could get AO 2(rough +BB size AO) and it would do the exact same thing. Crazy. Aluminum oxide and silicon carbide are both in fact ceramics. Silicon carbide noted for being brittle. Aluminum oxide noted for being tough. Silicon carbide breaks into pieces. Aluminum oxide does not break, it rounds. If you look at AO 500 slurry after it has been in a vibe for 3 days you will find AO 500 in the slurry(under a microscope). But rounded to almost balls. It does not go away unless run a very long time. For the same reason aluminum oxide ceramic media lasts for a long time. It is Mohs 9. I bought 10 lbs myself before realizing that the vibe would use so little.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Apr 19, 2017 7:34:31 GMT -5
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Apr 19, 2017 7:40:03 GMT -5
The only reason I bought 10 pounds of AO 22 was because I did not believe I was getting such good polish using AO 80. Thought I would take it to the extreme. I'm telling you, you could get AO 2(rough +BB size AO) and it would do the exact same thing. Crazy. Aluminum oxide and silicon carbide are both in fact ceramics. Silicon carbide noted for being brittle. Aluminum oxide noted for being tough. Silicon carbide breaks into pieces. Aluminum oxide does not break, it rounds. If you look at AO 500 slurry after it has been in a vibe for 3 days you will find AO 500 in the slurry(under a microscope). But rounded to almost balls. It does not go away unless run a very long time. For the same reason aluminum oxide ceramic media lasts for a long time. It is Mohs 9. I bought 10 lbs myself before realizing that the vibe would use so little. 1 to 5 pounds probably makes more sense for the vibe. Most grades of AO 22-46-60-70-80-120 can be had for ~$10 ppd per pound on Ebay if you want to try other grades. 22=46=80 from my trials. All acted exact same. Exactly. 120 is the next one I want to try. I think it would be perfect for the gentle Lot-O. Guessing it to be the perfect transition from coarse to 14,000 preparation. AO 120 should clean up coarse grit scratches/divots but also round quicker with a gentler vibe like the Lot-O.
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napoleonrags
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Post by napoleonrags on Apr 19, 2017 8:46:18 GMT -5
jamesp I was figurin the AO80 was rounding off. Will eventually try AO120 when I run out of SIC120. Scary pic BTW. I just wish that AO22 was good for rough tumbling in the roto...Have you tried it?
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Post by captbob on Apr 19, 2017 9:12:27 GMT -5
My limited (rotary) experience with coarse AO is that it does not grind or shape rough rocks. That part still has to be done using SiC grits. I have a 15 lb barrel of Rio agates that has been rolling with AO 80 since early March. The coarse grind was done with SiC grits and I figured I'd see what the coarse AO could do as a next step. Oughta check on it someday...
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Apr 19, 2017 9:51:06 GMT -5
jamesp I was figurin the AO80 was rounding off. Will eventually try AO120 when I run out of SIC120. Scary pic BTW. I just wish that AO22 was good for rough tumbling in the roto...Have you tried it? Not one bit. Won't do nothing in the rotary as far as shaping. But will lay down a fine pre-polish in the rotary.. AO 22 or AO 2 for that matter is useless for rounding. ONLY for laying down a finish.
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