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Post by coloradocliff on Jul 15, 2017 23:44:50 GMT -5
Not all activities need to be pared down to the quickest, most efficient means. 4 out of 5 wives agree. Just sayin'. Uh Randy... Does your wife fall in to the one part of that 4 out of 5 equation of yours. The 5 out of 5 rocks still love you...even if you skin a skunk in the kitchen. ? Just a grinnin......
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Post by Garage Rocker on Jul 15, 2017 23:54:47 GMT -5
Not all activities need to be pared down to the quickest, most efficient means. 4 out of 5 wives agree. Just sayin'. Uh Randy... Does your wife fall in to the one part of that 4 out of 5 equation of yours. The 5 out of 5 rocks still love you...even if you skin a skunk in the kitchen. ? Just a grinnin......
Oh, I'm sure there are times, Cliff. I'm sure. Look, you can't even find 5 dentists that will agree toothpaste is good for you, according to commercials. How you gonna get 5 women to agree to anything? (Ducking)
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Jul 16, 2017 5:23:43 GMT -5
I don't need or want any, and I am surprised that I've read the entire thread. What kept me going was all the figuring for cost and efficiency. I admire that, not that I would recognize a math error here if I saw one. I hope all goes well with the sorting out and sending/sharing. What a job! The problem is the shipping and the labor involved in distributing Pat. Funny thing is, Lampus already bought the product from the supplier and paid an up-charge. They probably paid $600 to $800 dollars for the 3000 pounds since they are selling it for $1350 for 3000 pounds. At $600 to $800 that works out to 20 to 30 cents per pound which is way cheaper than we pay for coarse grit. The cheapest deal I have ever been aware of was @shotgunner's supplier at $90 for 50 pounds. Assuming $18 shipping in LFRB that would be $72 for 50 pounds less the shipping. That still works out to $1.44 per pound before shipping is added. I would not be surprised if the SiC supplier has an even cheaper grade of SiC that would work fine for coarse tumbling.(less than 90% purity). Betcha it could be had in bulk form for 10 to 20 cents a pound and do a fine job on the coarse grind. I just wanted to follow the money trail to see the true cost of silicon carbide since we use so much of it. Shipped to my Atlanta thru Lampus I am at $1350 + $500 shipping = $1850 for 3000 pounds. That works out to $.62 per pound shipped. Not bad for the first quote. I am tempted. $1850 for a lifetime supply and still able to sell enough to make most of my investment back. Someone may find another distributer in their town that sells it much cheaper than Lampus. And bypass shipping costs. I am just opening peoples eyes to potential cheaper source of SiC.
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Post by MrMike on Jul 16, 2017 6:29:19 GMT -5
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Jul 16, 2017 7:55:24 GMT -5
The only quote I got was from Lampus Mike. Lampus salesman insinuated it came from US manufacturer. He said there is only on US manufacturer. By deduction, I assume that is Washington Mills. But I would guess that there are companies here in Atlanta that buy bulk SiC from Washington Mills for instance. It is very possible that I could find a distributer here in Atlanta. Or you could in a town near you. Next step is to contact Washington Mills and find out where the nearest distributer is to yours/mine/or whom ever's town. You might find a distributer that sells broken pallets like 1-5-10-20 bags instead of whole pallet. It would probably a steel melting operation. They may not want to fool with us. Pretty sure I have seen rail boxes full of bulk SiC headed down to the Hyundai factories in SW Georgia. I have seen rail cars full of silicate metals headed that direction.
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notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
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Post by notjustone on Jul 16, 2017 8:41:54 GMT -5
james when you say your triple dosing how does that compare to normal usage? do you normally add 1.5 cups over a 7 day period with reloads every 2 days to keep the action aggressive?
at the risk of someone getting butt hurt. I have to ask whats the advantage of rolling for 1 month or more without cleanouts? from what I understand the cutting action of the grit is reduced to basically very little over the first week or 2. I understand the breakdown to prepolish thing. but if your coarse cutting is well depleted by the end of a week and your pits and other imperfections are still there. yet you continue to roll on into week 2 and so on aren't you essentially taking any of the rocks that still have imperfections and moving them on to the next grit stage? I suppose if you threw your rocks in with no grit at all and tumbled them long enough (with heavy emphasis on the long part) they would erode eventually. just like beach rocks. but yet we add grit to speed it up.
I do weekly cleanouts with no grit addition for approximately the past 6 months. but 1 time I let them run for 2 weeks between cleanouts. the amount of rocks I got out after 2 weeks was not really any bigger than what I normally get out after 1. if it was more it was such a small amount it wasn't even noticeable.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Jul 16, 2017 10:34:41 GMT -5
james when you say your triple dosing how does that compare to normal usage? do you normally add 1.5 cups over a 7 day period with reloads every 2 days to keep the action aggressive? at the risk of someone getting butt hurt. I have to ask whats the advantage of rolling for 1 month or more without cleanouts? from what I understand the cutting action of the grit is reduced to basically very little over the first week or 2. I understand the breakdown to prepolish thing. but if your coarse cutting is well depleted by the end of a week and your pits and other imperfections are still there. yet you continue to roll on into week 2 and so on aren't you essentially taking any of the rocks that still have imperfections and moving them on to the next grit stage? I suppose if you threw your rocks in with no grit at all and tumbled them long enough (with heavy emphasis on the long part) they would erode eventually. just like beach rocks. but yet we add grit to speed it up. I do weekly cleanouts with no grit addition for approximately the past 6 months. but 1 time I let them run for 2 weeks between cleanouts. the amount of rocks I got out after 2 weeks was not really any bigger than what I normally get out after 1. if it was more it was such a small amount it wasn't even noticeable. In my case running the bulk grit at (my) triple dose at an aggressive 55 RPM for 6 inch PVC barrel the bigger bulk stuff is gone after 5 days. I let it run 2 more days till the week end to do clean out.(Been busy) Triple dose (for me is 3 X 1/2 cup for 6 pounds). So I am using 1.5 cups for the one week run instead of 1/2 cup for 6 pounds. I like that bulk grit because it works well with one week clean outs at 55 RPM. I have to recharge with coarse grit 6 to 8 times(6 to 8 weeks) if I want to have well rounded rocks. Pre-ground rocks are done in 1 or 2 recharges. They are much faster.
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Post by catmandewe on Jul 16, 2017 10:39:33 GMT -5
james when you say your triple dosing how does that compare to normal usage? do you normally add 1.5 cups over a 7 day period with reloads every 2 days to keep the action aggressive? at the risk of someone getting butt hurt. I have to ask whats the advantage of rolling for 1 month or more without cleanouts? from what I understand the cutting action of the grit is reduced to basically very little over the first week or 2. I understand the breakdown to prepolish thing. but if your coarse cutting is well depleted by the end of a week and your pits and other imperfections are still there. yet you continue to roll on into week 2 and so on aren't you essentially taking any of the rocks that still have imperfections and moving them on to the next grit stage? I suppose if you threw your rocks in with no grit at all and tumbled them long enough (with heavy emphasis on the long part) they would erode eventually. just like beach rocks. but yet we add grit to speed it up. I do weekly cleanouts with no grit addition for approximately the past 6 months. but 1 time I let them run for 2 weeks between cleanouts. the amount of rocks I got out after 2 weeks was not really any bigger than what I normally get out after 1. if it was more it was such a small amount it wasn't even noticeable. The biggest difference I have noticed is the size of the tumbler, my 90 lb tumbler has much more weight pushing down on the grit so therefore it increases the cutting action also. If I run my Thumblers 18 lb next to my Diamond Pacific 90 lb and do cleanouts at the same times and use the same ratio of grit then the larger tumbler will do about double the cutting action than the smaller tumbler. I tumble rocks to give to the kids at the two shows I do, plus whatever kids want to take when they come to visit and some have pits or vugs in them, that is part of the character of that rock. The glossy perfect finish is desirable but the imperfect ones are usually the ones that get picked out of the bowl first. Tony
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Post by 1dave on Jul 16, 2017 10:45:27 GMT -5
Yes catmandewe, PERFECTION is a matter of opinion!
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notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
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Post by notjustone on Jul 16, 2017 11:58:12 GMT -5
james when you say your triple dosing how does that compare to normal usage? do you normally add 1.5 cups over a 7 day period with reloads every 2 days to keep the action aggressive? at the risk of someone getting butt hurt. I have to ask whats the advantage of rolling for 1 month or more without cleanouts? from what I understand the cutting action of the grit is reduced to basically very little over the first week or 2. I understand the breakdown to prepolish thing. but if your coarse cutting is well depleted by the end of a week and your pits and other imperfections are still there. yet you continue to roll on into week 2 and so on aren't you essentially taking any of the rocks that still have imperfections and moving them on to the next grit stage? I suppose if you threw your rocks in with no grit at all and tumbled them long enough (with heavy emphasis on the long part) they would erode eventually. just like beach rocks. but yet we add grit to speed it up. I do weekly cleanouts with no grit addition for approximately the past 6 months. but 1 time I let them run for 2 weeks between cleanouts. the amount of rocks I got out after 2 weeks was not really any bigger than what I normally get out after 1. if it was more it was such a small amount it wasn't even noticeable. The biggest difference I have noticed is the size of the tumbler, my 90 lb tumbler has much more weight pushing down on the grit so therefore it increases the cutting action also. If I run my Thumblers 18 lb next to my Diamond Pacific 90 lb and do cleanouts at the same times and use the same ratio of grit then the larger tumbler will do about double the cutting action than the smaller tumbler. I tumble rocks to give to the kids at the two shows I do, plus whatever kids want to take when they come to visit and some have pits or vugs in them, that is part of the character of that rock. The glossy perfect finish is desirable but the imperfect ones are usually the ones that get picked out of the bowl first. Tony how much grit does it take to charge a 90 lbs run?
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notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
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Post by notjustone on Jul 16, 2017 12:31:03 GMT -5
james when you say your triple dosing how does that compare to normal usage? do you normally add 1.5 cups over a 7 day period with reloads every 2 days to keep the action aggressive? at the risk of someone getting butt hurt. I have to ask whats the advantage of rolling for 1 month or more without cleanouts? from what I understand the cutting action of the grit is reduced to basically very little over the first week or 2. I understand the breakdown to prepolish thing. but if your coarse cutting is well depleted by the end of a week and your pits and other imperfections are still there. yet you continue to roll on into week 2 and so on aren't you essentially taking any of the rocks that still have imperfections and moving them on to the next grit stage? I suppose if you threw your rocks in with no grit at all and tumbled them long enough (with heavy emphasis on the long part) they would erode eventually. just like beach rocks. but yet we add grit to speed it up. I do weekly cleanouts with no grit addition for approximately the past 6 months. but 1 time I let them run for 2 weeks between cleanouts. the amount of rocks I got out after 2 weeks was not really any bigger than what I normally get out after 1. if it was more it was such a small amount it wasn't even noticeable. In my case running the bulk grit at (my) triple dose at an aggressive 55 RPM for 6 inch PVC barrel the bigger bulk stuff is gone after 5 days. I let it run 2 more days till the week end to do clean out.(Been busy) Triple dose (for me is 3 X 1/2 cup for 6 pounds). So I am using 1.5 cups for the one week run instead of 1/2 cup for 6 pounds. I like that bulk grit because it works well with one week clean outs at 55 RPM. I have to recharge with coarse grit 6 to 8 times(6 to 8 weeks) if I want to have well rounded rocks. Pre-ground rocks are done in 1 or 2 recharges. They are much faster. yeah I guess what I'm getting at is if you were using sic 30 how much are you putting in initially? how much and how often are you recharging. to basically get the same amount of cutting action. would results be same if a triple dose of sic 30 were put in for a week run?
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Post by HankRocks on Jul 16, 2017 12:50:28 GMT -5
90 pound Tumbler!! That's not a Tumbler, that's a body-building machine!! or maybe body-breaking machine!
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Post by captbob on Jul 16, 2017 13:41:55 GMT -5
Kingsley North has 30 or 46/70 grit at $92.50 for a 50 lb bag - plus Flat Rate shipping. I bought both at $88 per bag, so maybe the price goes up & down?
With shipping, that's about $110 per bag. Versus $100 for a bag (weight unknown as yet, but certainly not more than 50 lbs) of this ungraded mix stuff.
Someone receiving a pallet and keeping a bunch will make out nicely, but it's not really any kind of significant savings for those buying a box or two over just buying a box from Kingsley as you need it. Still a bunch of work for the person packing & shipping.
Guess I don't understand the huge advantage of the "time released" chunks. I run 30 grit in my 15 lb barrels and it's not broken down after a week. A high speed PVC barrel may be the difference. (?) I would imagine that coarse grit breaks down pretty quickly when rocks are smashing it against a hard PVC barrel vs a rubber walled barrel.
If someone gets a pallet, I would like a box to try this "time release" stuff out.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 13:58:53 GMT -5
That is the jacked up eBay price. I found him on Craigslist thru a link posted here somewhere. its $88 for 40#.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Jul 16, 2017 14:01:46 GMT -5
In my case running the bulk grit at (my) triple dose at an aggressive 55 RPM for 6 inch PVC barrel the bigger bulk stuff is gone after 5 days. I let it run 2 more days till the week end to do clean out.(Been busy) Triple dose (for me is 3 X 1/2 cup for 6 pounds). So I am using 1.5 cups for the one week run instead of 1/2 cup for 6 pounds. I like that bulk grit because it works well with one week clean outs at 55 RPM. I have to recharge with coarse grit 6 to 8 times(6 to 8 weeks) if I want to have well rounded rocks. Pre-ground rocks are done in 1 or 2 recharges. They are much faster. yeah I guess what I'm getting at is if you were using sic 30 how much are you putting in initially? how much and how often are you recharging. to basically get the same amount of cutting action. would results be same if a triple dose of sic 30 were put in for a week run? With clay thickener I get only 2 days out of SiC 30. I am getting 5 days out out of this bulk stuff. By the way, it performs better adding clay, like 3/4 cup to thicken slurry. 3/4 cup clay, 1.5 cups bulk SiC. I don't want to add grit every 2-3 days. I want to add grit every week at most. I don't think it matters whether I triple dose the SiC 30 or not. I would guess it is spent after 2 days either way. I have not triple dosed the SiC 30 but have double dosed and it is gone in 2 days with clay thickener. My machine, my speed, my rocks, etc. Bigger chunks simply last 5 days for me because they are bigger I suppose. I am running out of broken up SiC 50 grinding wheels, need a time release replacement. Liking this stuff for the release factor. I am running 1/2 to 1.5 pound rocks in each 6 pound barrel also. The big rocks help break down the bid SiC chunks no doubt. Here is contents of 3 six pound barrels:
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 14:01:56 GMT -5
captbobPrice does indeed fluctuate. 4 years ago it was 65¢/#. Now it's $2.20 at the same supplier. Just last winter it was $85/55# bag.
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Post by coloradocliff on Jul 16, 2017 14:04:59 GMT -5
90 pound Tumbler!! That's not a Tumbler, that's a body-building machine!! or maybe body-breaking machine! That size is a toy for Tony.. Seen the boulders that man rolls up his tail gate?
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Post by catmandewe on Jul 16, 2017 14:51:38 GMT -5
The biggest difference I have noticed is the size of the tumbler, my 90 lb tumbler has much more weight pushing down on the grit so therefore it increases the cutting action also. If I run my Thumblers 18 lb next to my Diamond Pacific 90 lb and do cleanouts at the same times and use the same ratio of grit then the larger tumbler will do about double the cutting action than the smaller tumbler. I tumble rocks to give to the kids at the two shows I do, plus whatever kids want to take when they come to visit and some have pits or vugs in them, that is part of the character of that rock. The glossy perfect finish is desirable but the imperfect ones are usually the ones that get picked out of the bowl first. Tony how much grit does it take to charge a 90 lbs run? I use 10 lbs of 80 grit (not quite a coffee can full) and just let it run for a month or so without checking it, in the 50 lb ers I use half a coffee can full and let them run the same. I bought a ton of grit through one of shotgunners connections in CA a couple years ago and the 80 grit graded was the cheapest at the time, back then it was $1.90 a lb.
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Post by coloradocliff on Jul 16, 2017 16:35:15 GMT -5
yeah I guess what I'm getting at is if you were using sic 30 how much are you putting in initially? how much and how often are you recharging. to basically get the same amount of cutting action. would results be same if a triple dose of sic 30 were put in for a week run? With clay thickener I get only 2 days out of SiC 30. I am getting 5 days out out of this bulk stuff. By the way, it performs better adding clay, like 3/4 cup to thicken slurry. 3/4 cup clay, 1.5 cups bulk SiC. I don't want to add grit every 2-3 days. I want to add grit every week at most. I don't think it matters whether I triple dose the SiC 30 or not. I would guess it is spent after 2 days either way. I have not triple dosed the SiC 30 but have double dosed and it is gone in 2 days with clay thickener. My machine, my speed, my rocks, etc. Bigger chunks simply last 5 days for me because they are bigger I suppose. I am running out of broken up SiC 50 grinding wheels, need a time release replacement. Liking this stuff for the release factor. I am running 1/2 to 1.5 pound rocks in each 6 pound barrel also. The big rocks help break down the bid SiC chunks no doubt. Here is contents of 3 six pound barrels: Good to see my old friends.. The almost sphere and the brecciated jasper. Strange how we get to know the different rocks in our tumbles and piles after handling and looking at them for a while.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Jul 16, 2017 17:17:18 GMT -5
coloradocliffBecause the pre-grind operation is something I have done so many times I can measure effectiveness of different coarse grits to remove the scratches from the grinder. It is a measured amount of wear. It is a repetitive situation. +/- hardness of rock being tumbled. 80 grit is slow and takes more recharges, talking 10 days on average, 2 or 3 recharges. 30 grit often removes the scratches in a few days. Me not wasting time and electricity on 60 and 80 grit. I can't tell much difference in 30 grit and this bulk grit. Just cheaper. Time releases at least twice as long- or takes longer to break down. However you want to look at it.
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