jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 17, 2017 6:41:12 GMT -5
Arm twisted by fantastic5. She is responsible for the stand and motor. The stand is simply a hanger, I figure she can make it out of wood. I am responsible for the pan with hangers and motor mount. I am forced to use a pan that only has 1.5" sides. A bit shallow. Pan is 10 gauge thickness and quite robust. Very flat. I am going to target two hour build time for the 24 inch pan, consisting of hanger tabs, motor mount, abrasive channels. Hanger tabs may be washers welded to side at 90 degrees with holes big enough for easy pan removal. I will start this Sunday morning 9/17 when the sun rises. If I can find a motor in the bone yard I may integrate it here. That may cost her because it will take more than 2 hours. I intend on running a grinder down the face of the pan and make shallow channels to hold the abrasive cross hatch fashion. The pan has to be removable from the hangers to wash the abrasive out for each finer step. She has sent videos of basic design. It will be a motor-attached-to-pan-design. The simplest to start with. Maybe later she will want to tackle a larger one with a motor driven counterweight shaft via V-belt like the expensive units. I have 30 inch and 34 inch pans for such. I think I have all the crap laying around to slap to together. I may need a testosterone pill to complete project(ha ha, inside joke). These are 14 inch pans, she wants 24 inch ones, so be it. The hanger and muscadine bin(me and about 20 Asian gals picked them at a local pick-your-own farm yesterday) Not sure what they were going to use them for. They sure smelled good(the Asian gals).
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Sept 17, 2017 7:07:02 GMT -5
Almost done w/2nd cup of coffee. Ok if I weld in pajamas and crocs ? Found 4 heavy gauge 2.25" washers with a 1" hole to serve as hangers. Some of the riper muscadines. 1" hole should allow for an asundry of hangers. Maybe I can round up some hangers too.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 17, 2017 8:53:33 GMT -5
May be way off. Know very little about vibratory laps. Maybe the ground grooves are a mistake. They are very shallow. Add more abrasive I suppose to fill them up. Probably a teaspoon full would do the trick. Call it an abrasive reservoir. I see that it must be absolutely level or the rocks will go to one side. 27 inch pan weighs 29 pounds. Next concern is welding the motor mount to the pan without warping it from flat. It is actually 11 gauge, hmmm. Guessing the motor shaft should be concentric with the center of the pan. Will measure standard NEMA frame for 1/4 or 1/3 HP motor and use that for dimension. Also, motor mount should probably be deep enough(long enough) to allow mounting motor shaft w/counterbalance closest to pan. Counterbalance pointing up....
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Post by captbob on Sept 17, 2017 9:07:53 GMT -5
May be way off. Know very little about vibratory laps. Next concern is welding the motor mount to the pan without warping it from flat. What? Explain please - before you do that.
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Post by HankRocks on Sept 17, 2017 9:24:14 GMT -5
I think Captbob may be going to say something about not mounting the motor directly to the pan, the extra weight will make the cleanout a tougher task and not allow you to switch pans. I use two pans, one for the SiC grits and one for polish. If you had two pans one slightly larger that would have the motor/vibrating mechanism mounted to it. Then the smaller pan would be secured inside the larger pan with 3 or 4 bolts thru the big pan side wall and tighten against the smaller pan. Also The counter weight directly on the motor shaft could be an issue down the road with the vibration wearing on the motor bearings too fast. Isolating the motor from the vibrating device with belt would help save the motor bearings.
Don't you like how an arm-chair mechanic just complicated your project! I am somewhat familiar as I have brainstormed with a good welder/mechanic friend of mine on how to modify a Lortone 20 inch vib lap.
Henry
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Post by captbob on Sept 17, 2017 9:26:02 GMT -5
See the + piece sitting on the 2 tier frame in Scotty's build. That is what the shaft from the motor attaches to. Then the pan is attached to this piece. pssst... this ain't no 2 hour build I worded that badly. There is no shaft from the motor. The shaft is pulley driven from the offset motor. Scotty's build tread shows this all well. Except how the shaft is attached to the + frame work which the pan is attached to.
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Post by captbob on Sept 17, 2017 9:32:17 GMT -5
I think Captbob may be going to say something about not mounting the motor directly to the pan, ... Had to go look at mine and find pictures! Thanks for clearing things up as I wandered off Henry!
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Post by HankRocks on Sept 17, 2017 10:31:04 GMT -5
The angle iron cross for mounting the vibration device/motor does seem a lot easier than 2 different pans.
Our main reason for considering indirect belt drive was the sorry state of motor bearings these days, I had to replace one after about 3 months as the shaft had too much wobble from the directly connected counter-weight. If you can find a motor with proper bearings you could probably get away with counter-weight on the motor shaft. Still best to consider a belt to seperate the motor from the vibration device.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 17, 2017 10:58:00 GMT -5
Y'all have totally legitimate observations. And thanks. This is a budget model. Not no where near the work of art that Scotty built. I get ya. Maybe the next unit. This one will have motor on pan w/out the isolation of a v-belt isolation arrangement. Cheaper/faster to build. Against putting off-balance directly on motor as it is hard on the poor motor. I get ya. Weight is at 31 pounds. With motor should be pushing 40 pounds. Intention is to remove with motor attached for cleaning abrasive even at 40 pounds. Motor bracket salvaged from a bracket on a bass boat trailer. Rigidly braced. Carefully spot welded to reduce pan warpage. Pan dead flat, whew. Found a 1/6HP 1040 RPM HD fan motor. Mounted on an old tumbler. It was full of wasps. Wish it were 1725 RPM and 1/4 or 1/3 HP. Ferris says she has a motor. She may try it. May hang it today and she how it works. That means I have to build the stand. That was supposed to be Ferris' job. Audience pumped about the build.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 17, 2017 11:00:42 GMT -5
The motor can be removed and replaced with 2 pillar blocks and and a shaft w/counterweight I suppose.
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Post by captbob on Sept 17, 2017 11:07:09 GMT -5
Why the crutches? You okay?
With that motor bracket & brace offset from center, and with the motor mounted, will the pan still be balanced to sit flat?
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 17, 2017 11:30:58 GMT -5
Why the crutches? You okay? With that motor bracket & brace offset from center, and with the motor mounted, will the pan still be balanced to sit flat? No it will not be and that is a concern. However the motor shaft will be dead center of the pan. I could, Bob, shim the motor so that weight is more centered. Or - add fixed weight to balance..... It is a bit of a Catch 22. Counterbalance dead concentric w/center of pan or having motor weight dead center. Vibratory equipment always a crap shot. ETA Was flat on my back last week for 5 days w/hurt back. Happens about 2-3 times/year for many years. Always lasts 4-8 days. Am back to 100% now, thanks.
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Post by rockpickerforever on Sept 17, 2017 12:23:32 GMT -5
Some info and photos of a 24" one sold four years ago link . The motor is offset, belt to upright shaft in center with counterweight. This one is similar to the 20" Rose I picked up several years ago at a silent auction for $30. At the time, I did a thread on it, but, thanks to the greedy bastids at P bucket, all the photo links are broken. forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/59791/20-rose-vibralap .
And before you ask, no, I have not used it yet, lol.
EDIT - fixed the photo links in the aforementioned thread.
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Post by captbob on Sept 17, 2017 12:24:23 GMT -5
I hate to even post this, and I hope you know that I respect the hell outta you and value our friendship, therefore take in the way in which it is intended... but, you are spending a bunch of time (and materials) on an effort that ( I believe) simply can't work - as designed. Maybe I'm not seeing some grand finished project properly, and you will (once again) amaze the heck out of all of us. Looking forward to seeing mad scientist plan on motor & counterweight. Just a thought, but how about suspending the pan upside down, (remove the motor bracket) and mount the motor and all associated parts to the bracket. Then place the bracket, motor, shaft, counter weight, etal where it will have the pan better balanced to remain flat while suspended. Would have to add some extra to make up for the welds and even cord weight. Complicated. But I'm thinking that pan needs to be as close to balanced as possible. Maybe adding/welding fixed counter weight to bottom of the pan to even things out may work. Even then ... (thinking balance is crucial) I don't see how you can test what you are building without building the whole darn thing. Sorry to be the Doubting Thomas in the crowd, but that's what I do. Have you thought about using the supported rather than suspended pan design? Like the Raytech 15 Hustler or the Lortone vibrating laps? Balance wouldn't be so critical then as pan would be supported from the bottom. The motor on those machines are mounted dead center to the bottom of the pan and the pan is supported on balls. Don't see why that wouldn't work on a larger scale. The back issue doesn't sound good. Do you have to do something to it to throw it out or does it just happen and you wake up one morning wishing you could get up and go to the bathroom without making so many noises? Glad you are back up and running. (not wanting to hit Create Post button) meh ...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2017 13:00:27 GMT -5
Doesn't a flat vibe lap have a cutting surface mounted INSIDE a catch pan? So the spent grit is washed away? I don't understand. Maybe captbob and I on similar path?
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 17, 2017 13:06:39 GMT -5
Moving along. Found a table with a 30 inch square hole in it. Found some springs for hangers. ACME part no. 592 from the Roadrunner show. Probably have to much stuff laying around to have all these parts. Next step is to pirate motor from old tumble and mount it. Configure a counterweight. Getting close.
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Post by captbob on Sept 17, 2017 13:14:22 GMT -5
He is creating a vibrating lap Scott. ETA: A flap lap would be WAY easier to make. Thinkin' he could have one done in half an hour. hmmmmm....
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 17, 2017 13:41:40 GMT -5
rockpickerforever @shotgunner captbobThanks for the link Jean. The belt drive is better design than this unit. No doubt. Bob and Scott, this video will give you an idea of what I am copying. Just on a larger scale. I hope the slower 1040 RPM motor will hold up better to spin a counterbalance. As opposed to a 1725 RPM. It is a very rugged industrial grade motor. Keep in mind many vibe tumblers use a direct counterbalance on the motor. Like the Lot-O. It is not a good design though. Bob, the worker and I were welding up heavy pits last weekend. I put them in stock by myself after he left. That heavy lifting is what got my back. It is a strange injury as it goes away if I lay down for several days. Happens about every 6 months. Bob, the overall balance may be an issue. I may attack issue with an adjustable off set weight. Never thought about it. Now I am. Glad you mentioned it, got my mind on the issue as I work on it. This guy has a slant on his machine. I fear the abrasive will move to one side over time. I guess you use a pasty slurry. Still concerned about the abrasive slurry moving to one side. Gonna throw caution into the wind and let her rip. I have a torch(in welder's lingo that means cut it up and start over lol).
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2017 15:50:38 GMT -5
He is creating a vibrating lap Scott. ETA: A flap lap would be WAY easier to make. Thinkin' he could have one done in half an hour. hmmmmm.... Fixed it. Thx. I had no idea a vibe lap wasn't a flat lap....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2017 16:13:29 GMT -5
Moving along. Found a table with a 30 inch square hole in it. Found some springs for hangers. ACME part no. 592 from the Roadrunner show. Probably have to much stuff laying around to have all these parts. Next step is to pirate motor from old tumble and mount it. Configure a counterweight. Getting close. I'm thinking a more rigid hanger will allow for 'off center of gravity' drive. The video you offered has threaded hangers for leveling. Not springs with no adjustments allowed. In all likelihood you have already castled your king, but I felt obligated to share in the event it was useful. Thanks for sharing Ann n's project. I'm flattered to be in such esteemed company.
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