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Post by TheRock on Sept 20, 2017 0:34:38 GMT -5
Since the weather has been nice and will shortly in a couple months be coming to an abrupt close the wife and I have been enjoying our self's ROCKHOUNDING for LAKERS and Streamers. Since there will be no hunting when the weather turns no doubt we will start tumbling. My question is how many lbs do you tumble say in a 5 month span? I presently have 2) LOROTONE 33B's Will have 2) Thumler's Model B Tumblers and 2) TWIN Lot-O-Tumblers. So with that kind of equipment Working it modestly how many lbs could a guy expect to go through? Thanks ~Duke
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Sept 20, 2017 4:43:07 GMT -5
The bigger question is how many fine tumbles. Some coarse grind for 2 weeks and some coarse grind for 3 months. Some spend hours pre-grinding each rock that goes in the tumbler. Many have a source of rocks that are easier to tumble due to their shape at the start. You will probably cherish 20 pounds of well tumbled rocks than 100 pounds of poorly tumbled rocks.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Sept 20, 2017 6:41:30 GMT -5
Like James mentioned there are too many variables involved. After 5 years of doing this pretty hardcore I have settled into the right amount of rocks for me. At one time I was going like crazy with just over 100 pounds at a time in the rotaries but realized that was way too many rocks to do a quality inspection of every week. I am a tad bit of a control freak so I have found that 24-36 pounds is my happy place in stage one rotaries. As long as I consistently have that much in stage one I am able to feed a single loto non stop 24-7 all year long. That means I get about about 3 pounds of finished tumbles every week of the year. I do have three loto-s and a mini sonic vibe but rarely use more then just one lot-o. All of my rotary barrels are lortones. A few QT-12 tumblers, a couple 33b's, a few 3A's and a big two story home built. I will also add that I am not a big fan of the 3 pound barrels. I have at least a dozen of them collecting dust. The 12 pound barrels are much more efficient stage one barrels. Here is picture my rotary tumble station taken a couple years ago. Chuck
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Sept 20, 2017 6:52:46 GMT -5
The coarse grind is the messier and time consuming part. Good for your bigger barrels as Chuck mentions. I keep the coarse grind in a separate dirty area because of the mess.
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Post by orrum on Sept 20, 2017 7:48:57 GMT -5
45 pounds in the rotsries for course and two Lotos. But I only pull my rotsries for inspection and grit change every month or usually every two months.
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Post by Garage Rocker on Sept 20, 2017 8:08:13 GMT -5
Yes, variables. Type of material tumbling, barrel size, how often are you doing clean outs, what size grit in rough grind, etc. Sounds like Drummond Island Rocks and I are tumbling about the same volume of rocks at any given time, about 25 lbs. He can get a Lot O batch going every week, but I go two to four weeks before I have enough ready to fill my Lot O. And just getting that very first load though first stage takes a while, because all your rocks are starting from zero. I don't do prep (grinding) on most of my rough before it goes in the barrel, it goes in pretty rough. I don't believe Chuck does either. He pulls rocks during the first stage and knocks off problem spots and returns them, for a quicker turn around. I just let them go once they are in there and they either shape up on their own, or they don't. So, my lazy approach takes up space with rocks that aren't being very productive. Just another example of how your process has a bearing on the productivity.
I will also echo the sentiment on the three pound barrels. I have the 33B and I loved it, before I got the QT12 and QT66. Those larger diameter barrels are way more efficient than the smaller barrel. I have much respect for those that rotary tumble all the way through in those small barrels. That is real patience. I rarely ever move a rock out of those barrels, it seems. I quit using them for a while, but put them back in action with one barrel running Obsidian only. I started it in April and am just now getting enough through to run a Lot O load. There just isn't much room for grinding in those barrels, especially when running it pretty full to avoid bruising of delicate material. A lot of people out there make it work for them, but I bet none of them would list the 3 lb. tumbler as their favorite, if they have a larger tumbler.
Just get started rolling and building a stash of Lot O ready rocks. Just know it will take a good while before you have enough to fill that double Lot O. The rocks won't be in any hurry, but you can move things along if you want to. Pre-grinding, super coarse grit, red clay...if you want to power through and crank out some material, check out jamesp and his experimentation threads. Mad scientist stuff.
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Post by captbob on Sept 20, 2017 8:32:53 GMT -5
You have 2 dual Lot-O units Duke? Not sure that was good planning. I don't use the Lot-O, but I believe that you must have both barrels full to run 'em. A dual and 2 single barrel units might have served you better - if you even need that much Lot-O capacity. That's a LOT of vibes to feed. I would guess that, like Chuck, your 3 lb barrels will be gathering dust in the near future. 3 lb barrels are good for folks just starting out in the hobby, those with limited space, or those that just want to dabble in rock tumbling. I bought a few 3 lb models, single & double barrel, when I started out and NEVER even used them. I saw that small barrel and said "are you kidding me? I'm not going through this much work for a cup of rocks!" 12 & 15 pound barrels are going to be your go to barrels. Or maybe the Lortone 6 lb units single & double. They do make larger barrels than that, 25 & 40 pound units, but that's a bunch of rocks to deal with, A lot of grit, and they may be heavier than you want to deal with on a regular basis. I love the Thumlers Model B machines. Like that wingnuts seal the lid and they hold a nice amount of rock for me to deal with. Order spare parts from the Rock Shed to have on hand BEFORE you need them. Spare drive pulley belts and lid liners are nice to have there when you need them. Belts needed more frequently than lid liners naturally. I order the o-ring "belts" by the dozen. Kingsley North is the place to order bulk (50 lb bags) grit, unless you have a local place to find it. The Rock Shed is fine for grits or polish that you are ordering by 5 lbs or less. Ceramic media (filler & cushioning) shop around. eBay is usually where I find my best deals. Order in bulk for the savings, stuff doesn't go bad. When setting up your new shop area, consider what is clean and what is dirty. Rock tumbling and storage space is fairly clean. Cabbing is pretty clean, but with a big King Cab unit, you may have a Shamu splash zone. Rock saws more dirty (oil mist) and placed where you can ventilate is a huge plus. Lots of things going on in a rock shop that you don't want to be breathing. Even grit dust... Enough tumblers running can be a bit noisy, and a bunch of 'em can make your whole house hum! Had a neighbor ask me if I knew where the bee hive was because he heard my house humming from outside. Just some thoughts... got stuff to go do. Bottom line, get more large barrels and LOTS of grit! oh yeah... and more rocks!! ETA: if you can return one of those double barrel Lot-O units (haven't used it yet) you might want to consider that. Heck I'd probably return both and buy single barrel units (not sure you will ever need 4 barrels running!) if you can. Again, I don't use the Lot-Os, but ... maybe Lot-O users can chime in on 2 double units?
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,680
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Post by Fossilman on Sept 20, 2017 8:39:38 GMT -5
I'm small potatoes,with only around 12 pounds or so,but they turn out great.......
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Post by Garage Rocker on Sept 20, 2017 8:53:12 GMT -5
ETA: if you can return one of those double barrel Lot-O units (haven't used it yet) you might want to consider that. Heck I'd probably return both and buy single barrel units (not sure you will ever need 4 barrels running!) if you can. Again, I don't use the Lot-Os, but ... maybe Lot-O users can chime in on 2 double units? It would take me forever and a day to fill two Lot O barrels, let alone four. I think those with the twin Lot O barrels are rolling a LOT of rock. One of those would certainly be sufficient, and my operation can only support a single barrel unit.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Sept 20, 2017 9:00:07 GMT -5
Yea, my vibe devours everything the rotaries put out. Waiting on the rotaries, a rock tumbler's life. Even when using POWER tumbling techniques lol.
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Post by captbob on Sept 20, 2017 9:08:25 GMT -5
Another consideration would be that vibe tumblers need MUCH more attention than a rotary tumbler.
The beauty of the vibes is that they run the rocks through the final grits and polish stages WAY faster than a rotary. Days rather than weeks. But the down side (to me) is that because things are happening faster, they require more checking on and rock cleaning (etc) than a set it and forget it rotary.
I bought a Thumlers UV-10 a couple years ago. Used it once. Prefer to set up a load to run in the rotary and get back to it in a week - or when I get around to it. Rocks in a rotary tumbler don't care if you forget about them! I have seven (out of 12) 15 lb Thumlers barrels rolling now. Some I dealt with a couple weeks ago, some I haven't checked in a month. Sure, I could process rocks (much!) faster by dealing with the barrels every week, but I don't care (at this point) to make the rock tumbling a chore. I deal with them if and when I get around to it. Rotary tumblers don't care. Vibes need daily (or more) attention. My life is sometimes too busy and I'm sometimes too lazy to play the vibe game. To each their own ...
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Wooferhound
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Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
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Post by Wooferhound on Sept 20, 2017 9:49:11 GMT -5
Got a 3 pound Loretone 3A last Christmas Then a Loretone Dual 6 pound QT66 in February So 15 pounds in total but I have never weighed them They are usually all rolling all the time Self collected experiments everyone of them
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Post by TheRock on Sept 20, 2017 10:34:41 GMT -5
WoW Thanks Guys for all the Opinions / Inputs you have once again save me some money! Well I at present have two 33B's 1 thumler B and 1) Twin Lot O ON order that should be here today. I was fixing to pull the trigger on a couple more of them but see that maybe another back up thumler B would be the only thing I need. I am heading out the door to therapy for 4 hrs so I will reread this post once I get back. Thanks again for all your responses that help's Ole Duke a Bunch! ~Duke
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Post by captbob on Sept 20, 2017 11:35:59 GMT -5
Before you use that double barrel Lot-O, (and can't return it) you might consider starting a thread asking about double vs single barrel units.
Even running two 15 lb Model B barrels, I would imagine that you will have a tough time feeding a double barrel Lot-O. Having to have both (Lot-O) barrels full to run it may be the issue.
Coarse grind and shaping rough rocks can take weeks to months. Don't know how much rock you want to run, but maybe four Model B units might be able to keep a double Lot-O from sitting idle too much.
You have to ask those that use Lot-Os and have Been There Done That.
Not being a Lot-O user myself, I can't make the call, but I would still say return the double and get single barrel units. Or maybe keep the double if returning it is a hassle and use it for the medium/fine grit steps and get a single for polish only. I have read here that a dedicated polish only barrel is nice to have if doable.
IF I were to go the Lot-O route, I might have a double and use one barrel specifically for 120/220 grit, one for 500 grit, and have a single unit for polish. Not having to clean out barrels to switch to different grits would be a plus for me. But there is no way I would want to spend the time to deal with a few Lot-Os (or any vibe) all running at the same time at this point in my life. But that's just me. Someone new to tumbling may get a kick out of all that rock time!
Maybe keeping two Lot-O barrels fed isn't a big deal -?? I don't know. Ask or go find previous threads on Lot-O usage.
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Post by captbob on Sept 20, 2017 11:57:42 GMT -5
Adding - Chuck pretty much answered my question(s) in his post above. I have found that 24-36 pounds is my happy place in stage one rotaries. As long as I consistently have that much in stage one I am able to feed a single loto non stop 24-7 all year long. That means I get about about 3 pounds of finished tumbles every week of the year. I do have three loto-s and a mini sonic vibe but rarely use more then just one lot-o. Chuck So maybe TWO 15 lb Thumbles ( or 3 Lortone 12s or 5-6 Lortone 6s ) can feed ONE Lot-O barrel well. (?) Again, a two barrel Lot-O may cause feeding issues - having to have both barrels full to run. Not trying to harp on this or you, just wanting to help you get up and running efficiently and in a cost effective manner.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Sept 20, 2017 12:27:53 GMT -5
Adding - Chuck pretty much answered my question(s) in his post above. I have found that 24-36 pounds is my happy place in stage one rotaries. As long as I consistently have that much in stage one I am able to feed a single loto non stop 24-7 all year long. That means I get about about 3 pounds of finished tumbles every week of the year. I do have three loto-s and a mini sonic vibe but rarely use more then just one lot-o. Chuck So maybe TWO 15 lb Thumbles ( or 3 Lortone 12s or 5-6 Lortone 6s ) can feed ONE Lot-O barrel well. (?) Again, a two barrel Lot-O may cause feeding issues - having to have both barrels full to run. Not trying to harp on this or you, just wanting to help you get up and running efficiently and in a cost effective manner. That sounds about right Bob. Unless the end user is not as picky about what rocks are ready to move to the vibe or they do a whole bunch of work at the grinding wheels every week. I have three loto's so I always have the option to run all three if needed but 99% of the time I use one of them and the other two extra barrels. One barrel for 120/220, one barrel for 500 and 1000, and one barrel for polish. Chuck
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ChicagoDave
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2016
Posts: 720
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Post by ChicagoDave on Sept 20, 2017 12:31:48 GMT -5
I was running dual QT-66 and one QT-12. I own two single barrel Lot-Os. The second one has never even been used and my first one never ran all the time. Hard rocks take a long time to get nicely rounded. I couldn't begin to imagine the amount of work it takes to keep a double barrel fed!
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Post by captbob on Sept 20, 2017 13:01:19 GMT -5
So Duke, my take from these (excellent - TOP TIER - rock tumblers!) Lot-O users is that a single barrel unit is the way to go. Extra barrels so that you can have dedicated barrels for different steps sounds like a winner. Would like to hear from some double barrel Lot-O users, but I wouldn't argue with the experience of these gentlemen. Personally, I would eat the return postage and get a single barrel unit and a couple extra barrels. If you bought it from Shawn at the Rock Shed I wouldn't expect any problem doing a return & swap. just sayin' ...
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Post by Garage Rocker on Sept 20, 2017 13:12:28 GMT -5
Just off the top of my head, txrockhunter and melhill1659 both have the double barrel Lot O. I'm sure there's more. Jeremy rolls over 100 lbs. in rough grind at any given time to feed his machine. Don't know about Mel. Maybe she has been too busy to get enough material through yet.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Sept 20, 2017 18:24:13 GMT -5
I have one single barrel Lot-O. I have two six pound rotary barrels and four three pound barrels running to feed it. It sets idle much more than it runs, so I agree with everything said above. I’m a tumbling perfectionist like Drummond Island Rocks and Garage Rocker, so my rotary tumbling takes months usually. The exception to what I said above is when tumbling Petoskey stones. They’re super soft, so my Lot-O can’t keep up with one six pound rotary barrel. I have buckets full of Petoskeys that I’m trying to work through right now, and my vibe space is slowing me down. My six pound barrel is producing about a three pounds every three days. I haven’t seen any Petoskeys from you, so this probably doesn’t affect your decision.
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