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Post by MrP on Oct 11, 2017 9:14:08 GMT -5
MrP It looks like you added the bolt to reduce counterbalance on UV 10 and UV 18. To smooth action for polish, correct ? If so, does your UV 10/18 still have adequate movement of the rocks when softening the vibration ? Am interested in your motives, curious minds. Mainly because polish seems hard to achieve if vibration is overly violent, especially on softer rocks.
jamesp Motive? Because it was betting the hell out of obsidian and others. If set right it really smooth's the action and still does a good job on polish.................MrP
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Post by MrP on Oct 11, 2017 9:15:41 GMT -5
Thank you both. That picture is exactly what I wanted. Probably take a look and try to do a modify next time I get down time on the vibe. Of course that means I have one more thing to learn how to play with to get nice shinies. fish, my Vibrasonic will polish the heck out of Mohs 7 rocks. But softer rocks like obsidian and rhyolite either frosts or only achieves a matte polish. It will do much better if I tumble smaller soft rocks. Larger soft rocks almost frost. The frosting on soft rocks is about proportional to their size. The frosting is worse with increased soft rock size. The matte finish is duller with increased soft rock size. No rocket science there, the bigger rocks hit each other harder in vibratory movement. By the same token, two one pound Mohs 7 rocks in the vibe will frost due to hitting each other. Run only one big rock and there is no frosting. No matter how much or what type of padding or media I have tried, the two big rocks find and damage each other. Mind you, the Vibrasonic has an adjustable counterweight and I have not played with reducing the off balance too much. It appears the manufacturers have designed the vibes for agate and Mohs 7 hardness rocks for the most part.
MrP does any of this make sense to you ? Yes....................................MrP
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Fossilman
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Post by Fossilman on Oct 11, 2017 9:19:13 GMT -5
I need to get a "Vibe",these rotary tumblers,sure as hell don't tumble Obsidian worth a damn! Nice rolls James!
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 11, 2017 9:34:09 GMT -5
Thanks MrP. The red highlight on vibes for Mohs 7 - yes ! It looks like you have been wrestling the giant already. Impressed with your attacks on the counterweights. I am hoping the softer abrasive pumice will do the break down thing on a gentler vibe action and softer rocks. Will attack with other abrasives if the pumice does not work. I did notice that adding more pumice slows the rock rolling action down, making a bit of a muddy slurry in the vibe. Slurry may be a big help on protecting soft rocks. Pumice is relatively cheap and it does not take much abrasive in a vibe anyway. 4 tablespoons instead of 2 tablespoons made quite a difference on thickening the slurry for 14 pounds of rock in the Vibrasonic. It may be that the actual abrasive could serve 2 purposes, abrasive and slurry agent. Larger pumice dose means shaving off more surface in the beginning. And then hoping for the pumice to break down to polish as vibes do so well.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 11, 2017 9:35:18 GMT -5
I need to get a "Vibe",these rotary tumblers,sure as hell don't tumble Obsidian worth a damn! Nice rolls James! You will like a vibe Michael. I tumble polished for a couple of years with out one. Vibe is a game changer.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 11, 2017 10:47:49 GMT -5
Whoops, fell asleep on the job.
Was supposed to check the obsidian after 6 hours and 9 hours to see if the fresh pumice removed the polish further. Was hoping that it had. This morning, about 20 hours later and the polish is coming back from the loss of polish at 3 hours.
Good thing, the pumice does polish obsidian. Bad thing, the ~80 grit pumice is breaking down to polish faster than I wanted it to at a dose of 3 tablespoons per 14 pounds of rock.
I would prefer for it to break down 80 to 120 in like 5 to 10 hours, then 120 to 500 in 5 to 10 hours, then 500 to 1000 in 5 to 10 hours, then 1000 to 14,000 in 5 to 20 hours. That way it would have more time to cut more meat off the rocks. But there may be a solution. To simply increase the dose of pumice. More abrasive means more cutting. And the added pumice will thicken the slurry to protect soft rocks. It looks like the dose could be quadrupled or more and still have good movement. The 'short life' of the 0-1/2 pumice may be a godsend if by adding more pumice it shaves more rock off, but quickly. Pumice is cheap, and vibes require small amounts to thicken slurry. And if too thick, add water.
Shaving rock off is important to remove the scratches and pits from the last abrasive.
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Post by aDave on Oct 11, 2017 13:24:31 GMT -5
Great work jamesp. Enjoyed the photos and the information. Dave
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 11, 2017 14:02:32 GMT -5
Great work jamesp. Enjoyed the photos and the information. Dave Let's see where it goes Dave. Never hurts to give a try at new stuff.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 12, 2017 6:51:26 GMT -5
May consider mixing pumice with AO 500 for obsidian. Or AO 14,000. Polish sized AO 14,000 lasts a long time, can be reused. Broken down AO 500 can be re-used too. can't hurt
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 12, 2017 15:32:41 GMT -5
Changed my mind. I got a fine polish on the obsidian with pumice and aluminum oxide initially. --in the vibe-- I am going to assume that the pumice makes a good slurry that allows a polish on obsidian. --in the vibe-- Being an advocate of slurry I made up a thicker slurry of pumice and then added AO 80. --in the vibe-- Please note, AO 80 completely removed the polish on the obsidian and the agate media in a couple of hours. It basically shaved a layer off all the rocks, agate and obsidian. It appears to have removed old bruises from the obsidian. This is good. AO 80 has about a 48 hour breakdown(in my vibe) from 80 to very close to polish on Mohs 7 rocks. Here is the progress at 4 hours and 7 hours. Note 4 hour stone has deeper pits The 4 hour stone is on the left. Pencil marks show difference in depth/size of pits. The obsidian at top is the original run in pumice and aluminum oxide. Note rich color from polish. Marks-a-lot ink smoother in 7 hour stone. The AO 80 is breaking down. This is the instant pumice slurry. Wetter than I intended. 6 tablespoons of pumice for 14 pounds of rock. Slurry should thicken up as it appears to be about 150 to 200 grit at 7 hours. More rock mud to be made. I noticed the difference in the 4 and 7 hour pits in the glare of the Marks-a-lot. So I tried the pencil and took a photo in the glare. Seems to give a good indication of the pit's depth and size. I also reduced the counterbalance on the Vibrasonic vibe to .9 from 1.3. I will pull another obsidian to check surface pits this evening if I don't fall asleep again. This is a piece of the media. It is coral and had a wet polish. 7 hours in AO 80 totally removed it's polish.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 12, 2017 19:24:15 GMT -5
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 12, 2017 19:39:13 GMT -5
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 13, 2017 7:49:34 GMT -5
Now at 24 hours. 4 hour obsidian with about a 100 grit finish. 24 hour obsidian with about a 500 finish and starting to reflect light. The pencil mark is no longer effective at this smoothness. Reflection and luster is the best way to see the finish from here on. And for those of you that have experienced frosting ha, count me in. So far no frosting on relatively sharp edge of 2 inch long stone. Coral media right on schedule. Expecting Mohs 7 rocks to polish before obsidian. No explanation, just from experience.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 13, 2017 8:27:10 GMT -5
And the 24 hour pumice slurry. It thickened up nicely overnight. 6 tablespoons of 0-1/2 pumice. This vibe is a pain in the butt. Notice how best slurry has worked it's way to the right by slipping past the divider. So you have Mexican jumping beans on the left side which can cause frosting on obsidian. The right side has a nice protective slurry and will likely not cause any frosting. The right side of the right side has the thickest slurry, it never ends #$%@#$.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 13, 2017 10:02:02 GMT -5
I am liking this too 1dave. Maybe I found a way to get a polish on obsidian finally. About the only slurry we use in the vibe is Borax. It is soapy and slick. Maybe not as good of a cushion as a clay base slurry. I used to use sugar, and it got a bit syrupy. And was messy and attracted ants and other critters. And it takes a bit of time to thicken. I may have had bruised obsidian by the time it thickened(both Borax and sugar). I prefer instant slurry for that reason. I would consider the wet pumice a clay as it is similar to the clay created by wet volcanic ash. Anyway, maybe the pumice slurry will help people that have vibes that are to violent for obsidian. I often had bruises during 500 to 1000 steps. Time will tell. Pumice – (Al203 4Si02 2H20) Vocanic Ash similar to feldspars used in glazes as a flux. I added abrasive grade aluminum oxide because pumice is porous and friable and breaks down very fast in the vibe.
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aimeesrockworks
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Post by aimeesrockworks on Oct 13, 2017 10:16:54 GMT -5
Now I want a tub of frosting... and obsidian that doesn't. Ordered up some of your fancy pumice to test in my little vibe!
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 13, 2017 10:25:40 GMT -5
Now I want a tub of frosting... and obsidian that doesn't. Ordered up some of your fancy pumice to test in my little vibe! Why not ? It's dirt cheap(no pun)and did me well on the first go. Been fighting obsidian damage since the beginning of time. Not in rotary, but in my brutal vibe. It is the choice of abrasive for glass right up to and often including polish when using wheels. Will see if it works that way in the vibe consistently. Which vibe do you have ? So many of them beat the heck out of obsidian.
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Luminin
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Post by Luminin on Oct 13, 2017 12:09:43 GMT -5
Thanks for being so through here jamesp. This is REALLY interesting and I'm learning tons!
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aimeesrockworks
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I really do look like my avatar... it kinda freaks me out.
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Post by aimeesrockworks on Oct 13, 2017 15:16:49 GMT -5
Now I want a tub of frosting... and obsidian that doesn't. Ordered up some of your fancy pumice to test in my little vibe! Why not ? It's dirt cheap(no pun)and did me well on the first go. Been fighting obsidian damage since the beginning of time. Not in rotary, but in my brutal vibe. It is the choice of abrasive for glass right up to and often including polish when using wheels. Will see if it works that way in the vibe consistently. Which vibe do you have ? So many of them beat the heck out of obsidian. I have a little Lot-O. It's been helpful on the harder stones but my last attempt at obsidian (while better) turned out super frosted on the edges. So I'm hoping that your pumice slurry is just what the doctor ordered. Since I'm about an hour from Glass Buttes... it's kind of a moral imperative that I figure it out!! And why not for a tub of frosting?? Not enough CrossFit in the world to burn that off.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 13, 2017 15:33:21 GMT -5
Thanks for being so through here jamesp. This is REALLY interesting and I'm learning tons! So am I luminin. Obsidian is a cantankerous rock to tumble. It is glass and glass can be difficult too. The pencil mark is old school surface finish detection method. Good to way differentiate tumbling pits from 30 to 500 grit finish. Finer than that you can use bluing or other surface dies. Marks-a-lot works OK. Or of course light reflectivity.
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