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Post by manofglass on Oct 13, 2017 15:33:30 GMT -5
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Oct 13, 2017 15:56:30 GMT -5
Why not ? It's dirt cheap(no pun)and did me well on the first go. Been fighting obsidian damage since the beginning of time. Not in rotary, but in my brutal vibe. It is the choice of abrasive for glass right up to and often including polish when using wheels. Will see if it works that way in the vibe consistently. Which vibe do you have ? So many of them beat the heck out of obsidian. I have a little Lot-O. It's been helpful on the harder stones but my last attempt at obsidian (while better) turned out super frosted on the edges. So I'm hoping that your pumice slurry is just what the doctor ordered. Since I'm about an hour from Glass Buttes... it's kind of a moral imperative that I figure it out!! And why not for a tub of frosting?? Not enough CrossFit in the world to burn that off. That's funny, please do not consume anything from a tumbler. I will say that having at least 50% hard stones or ceramic media will help your obsidian to polish if using aluminum oxide. The hard stones and/or ceramic media will assist breaking down the aluminum oxide to finer grades. However frosting is another game. Running more than one large rock will cause frosting. I would practice with 3/4 to 1.5 inch stones and smaller. The lot-O is usually friendly on obsidian. Sure you are following what the other Lot-O owners are using as far as obsidian procedures ? Filled to the line, using the right amount of water etc. Anyway. you must get the obsidian going if you live close to Glass Buttes - imperative. Maybe the pumice will help. I would have to have 50 tumblers if I lived there. Keep in mind I am doing a 2 or 3 step here. so I am using aluminum oxide 80 to assist. It works w/my Vibrasonic vibe. Which is brutal on obsidian. A Lot-o is like 4 pounds. I guess you should try 2 to 2.5 tablespoons of pumice as a start. I did 6 tablespoons for 14 pounds of rock.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Oct 13, 2017 17:12:54 GMT -5
Obsidian at 32 hours. Can see tree limbs and objects in reflection at 45 degrees. Color getting richer from pre polish. Picking up more reflection. Still nary a bruise or any frosting. Slurry unchanged as the aluminum oxide is down to about 1000 grit and not cutting much rock anymore. Coral and agate media is a bit ahead in shine which is about par for the course. Must make a decision about running AO 14,000 polish soon, maybe at 48 hours which is tomorrow morning. From my best judgement the AO 80 did about the following: 3 hours - 100 grit 7 hours - 200 grit 12 hours - 400 grit 24 hours - 600 grit 32 hours - 1000 grit 48 hours - hoping for about 5000 grit Here is a photo at 32 hours, obsidian at lower right is original polished stone from accidental first pumice batch. Darned if the obsidian is following close behind the Mohs 7 media Even the fluorite is pulling a shine, rough surface pits albeit. Looks way better than photo: Other side of fluorite had some harder material in vein form. the fluorite under cut around it. Maybe calcite ?
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Post by fantastic5 on Oct 13, 2017 19:52:24 GMT -5
jamesp the way your slurry travels to the right, is it level? I would think that over time the liquid would migrate if when slightly off.
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aimeesrockworks
spending too much on rocks
I really do look like my avatar... it kinda freaks me out.
Member since December 2010
Posts: 458
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Post by aimeesrockworks on Oct 13, 2017 20:33:53 GMT -5
I have a little Lot-O. It's been helpful on the harder stones but my last attempt at obsidian (while better) turned out super frosted on the edges. So I'm hoping that your pumice slurry is just what the doctor ordered. Since I'm about an hour from Glass Buttes... it's kind of a moral imperative that I figure it out!! And why not for a tub of frosting?? Not enough CrossFit in the world to burn that off. That's funny, please do not consume anything from a tumbler. I will say that having at least 50% hard stones or ceramic media will help your obsidian to polish if using aluminum oxide. The hard stones and/or ceramic media will assist breaking down the aluminum oxide to finer grades. However frosting is another game. Running more than one large rock will cause frosting. I would practice with 3/4 to 1.5 inch stones and smaller. The lot-O is usually friendly on obsidian. Sure you are following what the other Lot-O owners are using as far as obsidian procedures ? Filled to the line, using the right amount of water etc. Anyway. you must get the obsidian going if you live close to Glass Buttes - imperative. Maybe the pumice will help. I would have to have 50 tumblers if I lived there. Keep in mind I am doing a 2 or 3 step here. so I am using aluminum oxide 80 to assist. It works w/my Vibrasonic vibe. Which is brutal on obsidian. A Lot-o is like 4 pounds. I guess you should try 2 to 2.5 tablespoons of pumice as a start. I did 6 tablespoons for 14 pounds of rock. Ahh, maybe I mixed too many sizes! Didn't think about that. Thanks!
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colliel82
has rocks in the head
Member since November 2007
Posts: 664
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Post by colliel82 on Oct 13, 2017 20:54:43 GMT -5
jamesp, what number do you have your weights set on? Did you decrease it from a regular agate tumble?
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Oct 14, 2017 4:27:43 GMT -5
jamesp, what number do you have your weights set on? Did you decrease it from a regular agate tumble? jamesp the way your slurry travels to the right, is it level? I would think that over time the liquid would migrate if when slightly off. This Vibrasonic has a cylindrical hopper unlike a donut or a vertical hopper like the Lot-O. It has an adjustable counterbalance on the left side and the right side. If there is a slight difference in the counterbalance then the vibration will send small rocks to the say left and big rocks to the right. Same with a thicker slurry, the thick goes to one side and the watery slurry goes to the other. This phenom is much worse at gentle settings. Well, your goose is cooked if the big rocks all separate from the small rocks and beat themselves up. Or the protective slurry all goes to one side and you have no protection on that side. I did install a divider to circumvent some of this problem. It's miracle this obsidian is not totally bruised given the conditions. one reason I do a big rock on each side of the divider is because I can put all small rocks in with one big rock. that eliminated the size division issue, all smalls and one big in each compartment. or tumble all Mohs 7 rocks that simply do not bruise. fantastic5, you can tilt that thing like a ski slope and the vibrations still continue to separate big from small, thick from thin slurry. I have tried it all. and making more counterbalance on one side than the other. Putting a soft foam mat under one side helped. The 35 pound hopper is shaped like a Lot-O hopper. It is narrow and tall. It is said that it mixes much better. colliel82, for agate I had the weights set at 1.2 on one side, 1.3 on the other. Gave a vigorous action. Must have run 25-30 loads of agate-wood-jasper successfully at that setting. And could run thinner slurry which did not have separation issues. In the past and for this run I dropped the counter weights to .9 an 1.0. Much smoother action but the separation issues way increased. Since then I installed a divider which has allowed me a successful run so far. But still suffering from separation within each compartment. A third divider would help the rock size separation, but the thicker slurry still slips by the dividers. dividers not 100% sealed separate. Probably the best thing I could do is mount two or three 4 pound Vibrasonic hoppers on the deck of the base unit. They are vertical hoppers and are supposed to have excellent mixing. I like the idea of having 2 to 3 separate hoppers and the ability to run separate loads. Check this out, perfect, 6 four pound hoppers. 2 or 3 four pound hoppers would be plenty. Just now found them on Google images, hmmm. I may purchase such. Never seen them, called VSV. Aftermarket ? These would solve my separation issues by George. A 6 pack, good greif(unlike me ha ha); Or a 3 pack, less than $200. Never seen these. I'd just run two. This would be perfect. Bet I'm going to purchase this.: Or a 2 pack, the old style:
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Oct 14, 2017 5:01:11 GMT -5
MrP Looks like aftermarket hoppers. Up to a 50 pound single. Those hoppers have a round bottom, could saw a pipe in half lengthwise...weld base plate on.
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Post by Garage Rocker on Oct 14, 2017 6:10:52 GMT -5
Dear James, I know you love the experimentation, as we all do, clearly, based on the response you get to these threads. So don't stop, please. However, why not get that Lot O for your obsidian and tricky materials, instead of buying that 2 pack hopper? I know you love your machine with all it's quirks, maybe because of the quirks, and for the speed it processes material, but you don't seem to mind shelling out a few bucks to get the job done. Well, the Lot O is proven to work on almost all material, albeit with smaller chunks than you may be interested in tumbling. I know you like the challenge and playing and learning and, more importantly, have the time to do so, but as they say, "good money after bad". Maybe you're too far down this road to turn back and are determined to get results with your machine, which is fine, we all enjoy the read. Hoping for obsidian success for you. Concerned friend, Garage Rocker (A bit tongue in cheek, of course. I could have just said 'why not a Lot O?')
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Oct 14, 2017 6:34:37 GMT -5
Hi Walt, I may try those polishes. Chrome and tin oxide are softer abrasives for softer rocks. But I believe only polish grade is available at Covington. Right now I am trying to take obsidian directly out of rotary in coarse grit and go from a rough rotary finish all the way to polish(or very close to polish) using AO 80. I want the obsidian to finish ASAP to reduce chance of bruising and frosting. Not trying to speed the process, just trying to reduce the run time to avoid chance of frosting. I am also re-running a half a ton(kidding) of bruised/frosted obsidian and having luck removing the old frost with AO 80. But the pumice slurry seems to be allowing me to perform this task. It is the pumice slurry mixed with aluminum oxide for the vibe that interests me at this point. And as an added bonus it may be working on fluorite. The AO 80 skinned off about 1/16 to 1/8 of an inch off of the fluorite in the vibe in 2 days. The AO 80 is breaking down to very near polish and transferring a (so far) fair polish to the fluorite. It removed so much off the fluorite that it may be possible to rough tumble the fluorite in the vibe. You may have to run AO 80 twice to get it to a rounded shape.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Oct 14, 2017 7:02:32 GMT -5
Dear James, I know you love the experimentation, as we all do, clearly, based on the response you get to these threads. So don't stop, please. However, why not get that Lot O for your obsidian and tricky materials, instead of buying that 2 pack hopper? I know you love your machine with all it's quirks, maybe because of the quirks, and for the speed it processes material, but you don't seem to mind shelling out a few bucks to get the job done. Well, the Lot O is proven to work on almost all material, albeit with smaller chunks than you may be interested in tumbling. I know you like the challenge and playing and learning and, more importantly, have the time to do so, but as they say, "good money after bad". Maybe you're too far down this road to turn back and are determined to get results with your machine, which is fine, we all enjoy the read. Hoping for obsidian success for you. Concerned friend, Garage Rocker (A bit tongue in cheek, of course. I could have just said 'why not a Lot O?') Good point. I get ya. The Lot-O is a 'THE' machine for this task. Good money after bad has been the situation with the Vibrasonic as far as running obsidian and softer materials. If a slurry can be had that allows this not-so-friendly machine to polish obsidian then maybe it will work on other softer rocks. For that reason I prefer to use this aggressive machine for my slurry experiment for these tricky stones. It may be that other machines that run too violent can do an efficient job on soft rocks using thicker slurry. More importantly I want to be able to tumble fluorite, apatite, amber, petosky's, felspars, calcites, gypsum, etc. Those have all but kicked our butts. Feeling strong that thicker slurry is the key. It is likely that a more aggressive vibe will be required to move rocks in a really thick slurry. An unknown. Anyway, that is the approach. Appreciate your concern but win or lose, I am having fun. Probably need to tighten the lead terminals sticking out of my neck. Doc says it's not healthy to let them get loose.
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Post by MrP on Oct 14, 2017 7:04:28 GMT -5
MrP Looks like aftermarket hoppers. Up to a 50 pound single. Those hoppers have a round bottom, could saw a pipe in half lengthwise...weld base plate on. James There you go. I have run many loads with 60/90 Sic in my LP tank barrel with no liner. I just had a leak show up, and when I checked it is where I welded it to the bar that I use to bolt it to the vibe. I am sure you are a better welder then me so you would not have that problem! If you use a pipe you will have many years of use and if you are using AO I doubt you would ever wear it out. I would only cut about 1/4 of the top part of the pipe, full length, then you can make straps to hold the top on. Cut a piece of inner tube to seal the top so you can control the moisture.....................................MrP
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Post by MrP on Oct 14, 2017 7:09:48 GMT -5
jamesp, what number do you have your weights set on? Did you decrease it from a regular agate tumble? jamesp the way your slurry travels to the right, is it level? I would think that over time the liquid would migrate if when slightly off. This Vibrasonic has a cylindrical hopper unlike a donut or a vertical hopper like the Lot-O. It has an adjustable counterbalance on the left side and the right side. If there is a slight difference in the counterbalance then the vibration will send small rocks to the say left and big rocks to the right. Same with a thicker slurry, the thick goes to one side and the watery slurry goes to the other. This phenom is much worse at gentle settings. Well, your goose is cooked if the big rocks all separate from the small rocks and beat themselves up. Or the protective slurry all goes to one side and you have no protection on that side. I did install a divider to circumvent some of this problem. It's miracle this obsidian is not totally bruised given the conditions. one reason I do a big rock on each side of the divider is because I can put all small rocks in with one big rock. that eliminated the size division issue, all smalls and one big in each compartment. or tumble all Mohs 7 rocks that simply do not bruise. fantastic5 , you can tilt that thing like a ski slope and the vibrations still continue to separate big from small, thick from thin slurry. I have tried it all. and making more counterbalance on one side than the other. Putting a soft foam mat under one side helped. The 35 pound hopper is shaped like a Lot-O hopper. It is narrow and tall. It is said that it mixes much better. colliel82 , for agate I had the weights set at 1.2 on one side, 1.3 on the other. Gave a vigorous action. Must have run 25-30 loads of agate-wood-jasper successfully at that setting. And could run thinner slurry which did not have separation issues. In the past and for this run I dropped the counter weights to .9 an 1.0. Much smoother action but the separation issues way increased. Since then I installed a divider which has allowed me a successful run so far. But still suffering from separation within each compartment. A third divider would help the rock size separation, but the thicker slurry still slips by the dividers. dividers not 100% sealed separate. Probably the best thing I could do is mount two or three 4 pound Vibrasonic hoppers on the deck of the base unit. They are vertical hoppers and are supposed to have excellent mixing. I like the idea of having 2 to 3 separate hoppers and the ability to run separate loads. Check this out, perfect, 6 four pound hoppers. 2 or 3 four pound hoppers would be plenty. Just now found them on Google images, hmmm. I may purchase such. Never seen them, called VSV. Aftermarket ? These would solve my separation issues by George. A 6 pack, good greif(unlike me ha ha); Or a 3 pack, less than $200. Never seen these. I'd just run two. This would be perfect. Bet I'm going to purchase this.: Or a 2 pack, the old style: James My VT came with the 2 pack but I have 2 Lot-O so I put a large tub on it so I could polish large slabs......................MrP
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Oct 14, 2017 7:12:34 GMT -5
MrPI was going to split the pipe in half and put 2 or 3 independent H-4# hoppers into the half pipe. In an attempt to prevent all the big rocks and thick slurry from migrating to one end. Having a lot of problems with this migration at low off-balance settings. So you are doing your small stuff in the Lot-O's ? Like this rig Michael:
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Post by Garage Rocker on Oct 14, 2017 7:16:14 GMT -5
Don't doubt that you have fun, no matter what you're doing, Mad Scientist. You enjoy the hunt for knowledge. Somewhat of an enigma, though. Searching for max efficiency, but also solving problems that have already been solved, i.e. Lot O. UNLESS you hit on something with that thick slurry theory. You'll have to fix the slurry migration problem, but if you get fluorite to tumble up...well, I like my crow cooked medium!
Keep on being James. I'll be following along as well.
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Post by Garage Rocker on Oct 14, 2017 7:50:02 GMT -5
May as well do it proper, jamesp
Must be mad respect to have earned no less than three Photoshop jobs.
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Post by captbob on Oct 14, 2017 8:02:43 GMT -5
^^^ OH MY GOD !! freakin' awesome
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Post by manofglass on Oct 14, 2017 8:19:13 GMT -5
Hi Walt, I may try those polishes. Chrome and tin oxide are softer abrasives for softer rocks. But I believe only polish grade is available at Covington. Right now I am trying to take obsidian directly out of rotary in coarse grit and go from a rough rotary finish all the way to polish(or very close to polish) using AO 80. I want the obsidian to finish ASAP to reduce chance of bruising and frosting. Not trying to speed the process, just trying to reduce the run time to avoid chance of frosting. I am also re-running a half a ton(kidding) of bruised/frosted obsidian and having luck removing the old frost with AO 80. But the pumice slurry seems to be allowing me to perform this task. It is the pumice slurry mixed with aluminum oxide for the vibe that interests me at this point. And as an added bonus it may be working on fluorite. The AO 80 skinned off about 1/16 to 1/8 of an inch off of the fluorite in the vibe in 2 days. The AO 80 is breaking down to very near polish and transferring a (so far) fair polish to the fluorite. It removed so much off the fluorite that it may be possible to rough tumble the fluorite in the vibe. You may have to run AO 80 twice to get it to a rounded shape. Thank You James Walt
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Post by MrP on Oct 14, 2017 8:49:05 GMT -5
MrP I was going to split the pipe in half and put 2 or 3 independent H-4# hoppers into the half pipe. In an attempt to prevent all the big rocks and thick slurry from migrating to one end. Having a lot of problems with this migration at low off-balance settings. So you are doing your small stuff in the Lot-O's ? Like this rig Michael: I James Yes I either do them in the Lot-O's or UV 4/10, it just depends how I feel at the time. Truth be told I have been doing very little tumbling or cutting for some time because I retired in July. I always knew when I retired I would spend a large amount of doing nothing but playing with my rocks. How wrong can a person be!!! I have spent my time doing things around the place that have needed to be done plus getting things out of the way for the future. Winter is coming so will bring the tumblers into the basement. A pain in the a$$ for cleanout but it is what it is. I have a 10" Lortone Saw that I use Lube Kool in so I can cut smaller stuff in the winter also.
I like your idea. It being an open pipe to start with you can weld the dividers in from the open before you weld the end on. The only reason I say 1/4 is because I run my tubs very full, well over the halfway point. The deeper the fill the larger the slab I can run............................MrP
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Oct 14, 2017 9:12:10 GMT -5
Maybe the crow will get cooked medium if behaving, maybe raw if not. Ugly piece of fluorite at 48 hours and I really don't care. Damn thing has a polish on it. That is a hair comb in the reflection. Best avatar ever lol. Surface it rough, typical of much fluorite. Had a hard time getting a good photo. outline of lamp visible.
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