Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,423
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Post by Wooferhound on Nov 11, 2017 18:58:20 GMT -5
So far when I am tumbling in stage 1 course, I have been cleaning out the 6 pound barrel and adding a cup of course 46/70 grit, then halfway through the week I'll pop open the barrel and usually the grit has broken down enough to recharge, add another cup of course grit to the mix. Well, I was doing cleanouts today and wondered why I didn't just go ahead and put 2 cups of course grit in there and run it for the whole week, saving the time of recharging halfway through. It is 2 cups of grit either way. Is there a difference ?
So this time, I added 1 1/2 cups and will let it roll for the whole week . . .
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loot
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since October 2017
Posts: 111
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Post by loot on Nov 11, 2017 21:27:45 GMT -5
Interested in the results. Keep us posted.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Nov 11, 2017 22:42:32 GMT -5
Not much to lose by trying it. That being said I only use one cup of 46/70 grit in all my 12 pound barrels and always run for 5-7 days then do a full rinse. Nothing wrong with trying different stuff until you find what works for you.
Chuck
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Luminin
spending too much on rocks
Member since August 2017
Posts: 400
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Post by Luminin on Nov 12, 2017 11:28:15 GMT -5
My thinking is that it'll still break down at about the same rate. You add a full cup of coarse grit to the 6lbs barrel? I only add about 4 tablespoons to my 3 pound barrels, but I guess double the amount is a lot of grit!
Maybe next week try less initially and let it run the whole week, see if it makes a noticeable difference?
I've never recharged before, I'm very intrigued by the idea.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Nov 12, 2017 12:22:49 GMT -5
Not much to lose by trying it. That being said I only use one cup of 46/70 grit in all my 12 pound barrels and always run for 5-7 days then do a full rinse. Nothing wrong with trying different stuff until you find what works for you. Chuck I used to dose about 1 cup per 12 pounds. Now running 6 pound barrels and have gone to 1 cup/6 pounds. Yes, the break down rate seems to be the same. Pretty sure the rocks are grinding at a faster rate. Difference is if you double the dose you simply double the amount of particles cutting. Since trying the cheaper ungraded SiC I use yet more since the cost factor is less a concern. Never tried 2 cups/6 pounds. Don't see a problem with it though.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Nov 12, 2017 12:34:16 GMT -5
Not to steer away from subject, but somewhat related... I screened and separated the bulk SiC into 4 day size, 7 day size and 10 day size. Those are close to the break down times for the 3 sizes. I add 1 cup per 6 pounds in about all cases. Maybe 60% of the bulk SiC is the 7 day size and come to think I am using 1.5 cups of it for 6 pound barrel recently with no problem. 7 day size in middle. It would be better to have a rubber barrel, the bulk stuff wears PVC barrels faster:
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Post by aDave on Nov 12, 2017 12:45:33 GMT -5
I've never recharged before, I'm very intrigued by the idea. I'm with Drummond Island Rocks, in that I'm always cleaning and rinsing each week. I tried recharging, but I found it to be more trouble than it was worth. Grit and slurry collects on the Lortone barrel ledge and is kind of a pain to clean off (IMHO). Others find it to be no issue, so I guess I'm just quirky that way. Besides, doing full cleanouts and rinsing lets me see what is going on with each rock and which ones are ready to move along. Perhaps I'm not maximizing the efficiency of the process by not recharging every few days, but opening barrels about once a week is fine for me. I jump start the slurry after the cleanout by adding dried slurry that I save. Dave
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,423
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Post by Wooferhound on Nov 13, 2017 19:08:33 GMT -5
In my inexperienced opinion, I would think that 2 cups of grit does the work of 2 cups whether you, do a cup and recharge a cup, or start with 2 cups and let it roll for the week ...
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Luminin
spending too much on rocks
Member since August 2017
Posts: 400
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Post by Luminin on Nov 13, 2017 19:21:58 GMT -5
jamesp is the king on this subject. Was hoping he'd chime in! aDave The mess. Yep, that'll keep me from doing it. i clean my barrels when i do my weekly clean out. I can't stand the thought of leaving dried grit juice (I know, slurry...) on them. Wooferhound What day do you do your weekly clean out? This way I'll know when to bug you for results lol.
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Post by HankRocks on Nov 13, 2017 20:04:09 GMT -5
I have been using the re-charge method. It's quick on the Lortone Barrels, maybe 3 or 4 minutes and back rolling. It used to take a bit longer to clean the inside lip of slurry and small rock chips until I made a little spatula out of one the craft extra-wide popsicle stick cut in half. Just run it around the inside lip one time then rinse and dry the lid, done. I like the idea of checking the progress of the grinding and the slurry consistency and level during coarse grind. Re-charge interval depends on what is being tumbled and the tumbler; load of preforms and lots of pebbles to about 80 fill on the slower Thumlers - 4 days ; load of rounded rough on the Lortone filled 65% - 1.5 to 2 days. The good news is that going over on the time does not hurt, an extra day is no big deal, of course neither is a shortened time. I always allow an extra day or two after the last re-charge to make sure all the grit is broken down.
Only use 220 grit for 12 to 14 days and then to polish with no re-charge.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Nov 14, 2017 4:04:18 GMT -5
jamesp is the king on this subject. Was hoping he'd chime in! aDave The mess. Yep, that'll keep me from doing it. i clean my barrels when i do my weekly clean out. I can't stand the thought of leaving dried grit juice (I know, slurry...) on them. Wooferhound What day do you do your weekly clean out? This way I'll know when to bug you for results lol. I often tumble with 4-5 barrels, all PVC. The cap is easy on easy off. Otherwise I would not be so interested in recharging 5 barrels lol. If using SiC 30 and clay under best conditions(doing due diligence) I roll 2-3 days with 1 cup and the 4-5 days with another 1/2 to 3/4 cup. Do clean out at end of week. That would be for larger tumbles in 1 to 2.5 inch size. If the tumbles are half that size then I double the run time, add a cup for 1st 7 days, then a cup 2nd 7 days, then clean out after 2 weeks. the more I tumble the more I find the size of the rocks have a huge impact on the life of the coarse SiC. More so than speed, 30 RPM or 55 RPM. if tumbling a big 1 to 1.5 pound rock with a bunch of normal size tumbles the SiC 30 is totally shot in 48 hours. Actually sooner. So I add grit 2 to 3 to 4 times every 2 days if diligent, but have to pour off some slurry and add water to thin slurry. Clean out every 6 to 8 days. The bonus to adding the big rock speeds up the coarse grind on the big rock and the normal size tumbles because the metabolism is much much faster. The big rock method only for durable Mohs 7 tumbles and 75 to 80% fill. Same weight effect with a vibe when using high density ceramic media(NOT ALL CERAMIC MEDIA CREATED EQUALLY): www.royson.com/ceramic-media/LIGHT WEIGHT CERAMIC MEDIA USED WHEN THE HIGHER DENSITY OF *****bend or wrap a part due to weight of media REGULAR CERAMIC MEDIA WILL BEND OR WARP A PART. GOOD CUTTING ACTION. LEAVES PART WITH A GOOD FINISH. 65 LBS. PER CUBIC FOOT. A HIGH DENSITY FORMULATION USED FOR BURR REMOVAL AND ******this high density ceramic media will break grit down much faster IMPROVEMENT OF SURFACE FINISH. GOOD WEAR RATE. LEAVES THE PART WITH SMOOTH BRIGHT SURFACE. 130 LBS. PER CUBIC FOOT So, for hard material like rock we should probably be using high density ceramic media. Doubt that any one on RTH has ever paid extra for the high density stuff. Is your ceramic 65 or 130 pounds per cubic foot ? Some where in-between ? The difference is that your 10 pound vibe holds 20 pounds(or more) of high density.... They don't sell high density to be nice, there is a reason.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Nov 14, 2017 4:15:02 GMT -5
You can take the big rock thing to another extreme. I tried tumbling a big rock with all BB sized almandine garnets. Guess what, the SiC never broke down after two weeks. The big rock was virtually unchanged. The garnets were unchanged. Reason simple, too much padding to crush the SiC 30. Abandoned that run.
tumbling rule 3.724, use a mix of sizes for efficient cutting and abrasive breakdown.
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Post by tkvancil on Nov 14, 2017 11:14:08 GMT -5
I've done some experimenting in the past with adding more grit. There is a "break point" where the grit still breaks down but there isn't much more material being removed. I think this might be a cushioning effect much the same as too many smalls.
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,423
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Post by Wooferhound on Nov 16, 2017 17:36:03 GMT -5
The double dosed barrel is now making the loudest rock banging that I have ever heard from it.
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Luminin
spending too much on rocks
Member since August 2017
Posts: 400
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Post by Luminin on Nov 16, 2017 18:48:12 GMT -5
That doesn't sound good...
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Luminin
spending too much on rocks
Member since August 2017
Posts: 400
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Post by Luminin on Nov 16, 2017 18:48:36 GMT -5
Maybe it needs more water?
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Nov 18, 2017 3:10:21 GMT -5
I increased the dose and created a loud barrel. The slurry got too thick and coated the barrel, attached smaller rocks to the outside of the barrel. The bigger rocks were still rotating in the center and beat up the rocks. Slurry not healthy looking, coagulating blobs present.
Back to normal dosing. Adding half doses every few days before slurry gets too pasty can work.
3/4 cup for 6 pounds is plenty. More than that gets tricky to maintain consistent milkshake slurry.
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,423
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Post by Wooferhound on Nov 20, 2017 19:36:04 GMT -5
Halfway through the week, Wednesday, I noticed my QT66 barrels bulging a bit.
Barrel 1 was running a stage one 46/70 double dosed barrel, it had slurry thickener added too. The slurry was very thick but not quite like pudding. The pressure had gotten so high that it was oozing out and starting to make a mess. The grit was totally gone with a muddy slippery slurry. I added half a cup of water and put it back on the tumbler.
Barrel 2 was running a stage two 220 grit and I had double dosed it too without any plastic beads. The pressure had forced the lid out but it was not leaking. Everything looked fine otherwise, so I sealed it back up and threw it back on the tumbler.
Sunday was Cleanout day. Both barrels had a little bit of pressure but they were OK. The slurry looked great in both barrels before washing it away. Jamesp is right about the slurry being harder to control with the larger additions of grit. I will not try to add that much grit again all at once, the recharge method works much better and burps the barrel at the same time.
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Post by grumpybill on Nov 21, 2017 5:29:57 GMT -5
...The grit was totally gone with a muddy slippery slurry. I added half a cup of water and put it back on the tumbler... Why didn't you do a clean-and-sort if the abrasive had broken down completely? Seems to me that you wasted several days of tumbling without accomplishing any rounding of the stones. I check my barrels after 4 or five days. If I can't feel any grit, which is often the case, I do a full cleanout. If I feel any grit in the slurry, I keep it going for a few more days.
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,423
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Post by Wooferhound on Nov 21, 2017 7:19:31 GMT -5
...The grit was totally gone with a muddy slippery slurry. I added half a cup of water and put it back on the tumbler... Why didn't you do a clean-and-sort if the abrasive had broken down completely? Seems to me that you wasted several days of tumbling without accomplishing any rounding of the stones. I check my barrels after 4 or five days. If I can't feel any grit, which is often the case, I do a full cleanout. If I feel any grit in the slurry, I keep it going for a few more days. Well half the reason is pure laziness, thinking that the grit is broken down but it is still an abrasive powder suspended in the water and rocks will eventually round off without grit given enough time. The other half of the reason is that I have 3 barrels rolling and just want to keep everything on a weekly schedule. This was a bit of an experiment anyway and I had intended to run them for a week.
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