ubermenehune
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2016
Posts: 293
|
Post by ubermenehune on Dec 14, 2017 16:57:55 GMT -5
Not a cabber, but i'm curious what types of material (not necessarily just jaspers) are considered crème de la crème in the lapidary world.
I'm somewhat familiar with morrisonite and Morgan Hill poppy. Are Willow Creek, royal imperial jasper or Bruneau in the same category?
What other types of material are considered highly prized, rare or valuable?
|
|
|
Post by Peruano on Dec 14, 2017 18:23:22 GMT -5
Biggs, Larimar, Sugilite - not necessarily jaspers, but all high end and pretty. Check out the world of jasper website if you want to see pretty ones, but the emphasis is on picture jaspers. Whoops, did I forget to say opal?
|
|
|
Post by rmf on Dec 14, 2017 19:04:52 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by rockjunquie on Dec 14, 2017 19:06:34 GMT -5
I have always loved jaspers over agates- although that is changing and now I love them equally. I love a good bruneau as a great jasper, willow creek and Ocean jasper. The good ones are, indeed, hi end.
|
|
goatgrinder
spending too much on rocks
Make mine a man cave
Member since January 2017
Posts: 368
|
Post by goatgrinder on Dec 14, 2017 19:52:54 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by fernwood on Dec 14, 2017 19:59:29 GMT -5
Beauty is in the eyes of the be holder. Not a typo, but whoever be a holding it. Yes, many jaspers are named. Many are beautiful. What about all of those unique finds in areas not well known for jaspers? Or, somewhat remote locations, well known for jaspers? Should they be related to nothing?
There are a lot of beautiful rocks out there. Why should I have this. I have this. Provenance from well known areas determine what is good and what is exceptional? Many beautiful local finds by others and myself here. One of a kinds. Some area lapidary artists are asking premium for their roughs, cabs and jewelry. Locally, they are selling. over $100.00 for what would be considered mid grade cabs on RTH. finished jewelry, rings, bracelets and pendants. Selling for about $100.00 to over $500.00.
I have asked minimal when posting rough here, with mostly no bites. finished tumbles and cabs/jewelry made from similar finds are fetching a premium locally.
What I am getting at is that Provenance from a certain area is really irrelevant if one is selling mostly local. If they are selling via internet, to knowledgeable buyers, then yes. So sad that lots of great materials and finished products are passed by unless they are from well known locations.
A whole new world of exceptional materials to be discovered by the masses.
Go with what appeals to any local outlets. Also consider internet appeal if selling things there in an online store.
|
|
ubermenehune
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2016
Posts: 293
|
Post by ubermenehune on Dec 14, 2017 20:39:25 GMT -5
Appreciate all the responses. Wasn't familiar with the World of Jaspers website. Good resource and beautiful photos. Some of that material is almost unreal.
I'm asking more out of curiosity and wanting to educate myself on what lapidary artists consider truly high-end material. Pietersite, seraphinite, and sonora sunrise were some other non-jasper materials that came to mind.
I love OJ, but consider it more upper-mid grade material, based on price and availability.
|
|
|
Post by rockjunquie on Dec 14, 2017 20:59:18 GMT -5
Appreciate all the responses. Wasn't familiar with the World of Jaspers website. Good resource and beautiful photos. Some of that material is almost unreal. I'm asking more out of curiosity and wanting to educate myself on what lapidary artists consider truly high-end material. Pietersite, seraphinite, and sonora sunrise were some other non-jasper materials that came to mind. I love OJ, but consider it more upper-mid grade material, based on price and availability. Some of that old school OJ is to die for. You just don't see much of it anymore and when you do you will have to pay good money for it. As to what fernwood was saying- the only trouble with local stuff is that not enough people get to see it to appreciate it. I'm sure a lot of it would be on collector's lips had they ever been aware of it's existence. I run across one offs on eBay a lot. If it is awesome and has no name- I don't care- I'll buy it. I've gotten a lot of good stuff that no one has ever heard of before. It's out there. The problem is when you go to sell a cab or a jewelry piece- people want to see a name brand.
|
|
fishnpinball
Cave Dweller
So much to learn, so little time
Member since March 2017
Posts: 1,491
|
Post by fishnpinball on Dec 14, 2017 21:42:10 GMT -5
I want to add in that just having the right name is not all there is to a high end jasper and agate. It has to have a very fine micro crystalline structure. Someone with a better knowledge than myself can explain what that means in more detail.
|
|
|
Post by Lapidaryrough / Jack Cole on Dec 14, 2017 21:55:10 GMT -5
Agatized mud - coarse or fine. still mud.
|
|
zarguy
fully equipped rock polisher
Cedar City, Utah - rockhound heaven!
Member since December 2005
Posts: 1,791
|
Post by zarguy on Dec 14, 2017 22:39:53 GMT -5
I love so many jaspers. Many have been named above.
I'm partial to the cream of the crop of what I collect myself. I make it a point to sell its beauty and self-collected history.
Much of what I cab was acquired with no provenance, or collected in a place without a high-profile name. When trying to sell such cabs or pendants, I explain where it was found and explain how rare, beautiful, or unique this type of plume agate or picture Jasper is. I talk about Nature's color palette.
Some people and things are beautiful without being famous. Lynn
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2017 23:54:22 GMT -5
I agree with better grades of Biggs, and certainly with Bruneau and Willow Creek. I'd add Imperial, Deschutes, Tracenite, Vistaite, Mookaite, Hart Mt., Carrasite and Morrisonite, Tahoma, and better grades of Blue Mt. I also have a weakness for California's poppy jaspers, and Mexico's old-dig Fantasy jasper (the type with blue orbs) though finding solid pieces for either can be a challenge. Not every piece of any type has top colors, patterns or freedom from inclusions. Care in orienting and selecting the portion to cut and finish also has a great impact on how desirable will be the finished piece. Agatized mud - coarse or fine. still mud. Not really. The "mud" theory doesn't explain many jaspers (such as several jasper types that are found within thundereggs, others that contain not a trace of mudlike fines, jaspers that have no apparent mud component - some being as high in silica as agates, jaspers that are more properly flints that formed deep within sea deposits, etc.). No matter what some authors have opined, they are hardly all sedimentary. Many of the layer and other patterns were caused by later mineralization, rather than from being laid down in silty layers. The main difference between agate and jasper is simply opacity.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2017 1:37:08 GMT -5
I agree with better grades of Biggs, and certainly with Bruneau and Willow Creek. I'd add Imperial, Deschutes, Tracenite, Vistaite, Mookaite, Hart Mt., Carrasite and Morrisonite, Tahoma, and better grades of Blue Mt. I also have a weakness for California's poppy jaspers, and Mexico's old-dig Fantasy jasper (the type with blue orbs) though finding solid pieces for either can be a challenge. Not every piece of any type has top colors, patterns or freedom from inclusions. Care in orienting and selecting the portion to cut and finish also has a great impact on how desirable will be the finished piece. Agatized mud - coarse or fine. still mud. Not really. The "mud" theory doesn't explain many jaspers (such as several jasper types that are found within thundereggs, others that contain not a trace of mudlike fines, jaspers that have no apparent mud component - some being as high in silica as agates, jaspers that are more properly flints that formed deep within sea deposits, etc.). No matter what some authors have opined, they are hardly all sedimentary. Many of the layer and other patterns were caused by later mineralization, rather than from being laid down in silty layers. The main difference between agate and jasper is simply opacity. Donald Kasper separates the two with iron content... Jaspers have higher iron content. Both have clays involved in formation of the gel. =============== For our OP.. I would add that "howardite" rattlesnake jasper to the list of "high end". Stephoinite The Poppy jasper excavated from the north end of the golden gate bridge seems to be from rarified air. As in, never to be seen again. Pope creek poppy, Napa valley Tommy
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2017 4:58:46 GMT -5
Both have clays involved in formation of the gel. Thundereggs with jasper interiors formed in rhyolite flows. Even the small particle size of clays and caliches would not be sufficiently small to penetrate through the flow into the interior chambers of these gas bubbles. Even were one to postulate that clay could make it through the surrounding rock to fill the voids, one would expect the surrounding rhyolite to be saturated with clay particles filtered out as it was carried through the surrounding rhyolite, and this simply is far from what I've encountered when digging any of these. Rather, it is the silica that moves through the rock and fills the voids (unless pressure causes the shell to crack or collapse). Moreover, there are places where you can dig a jasper-filled egg and a few inches beyond it dig an agate-filled egg, caused (as are varying colors between eggs) by the particular minerals in the gases, solution or rhyolite shell at that point. Clays can form a part of sedimentary jaspers and agates (particularly with traditional European agate materials). Kasper, on the other hand, denies that chalcedony forms from silica in water solutions traveling through rock or flowing into cavities at all. From what I recall, his conjecture is that all material necessary for formation of the chalcedony (agate or jasper) is already present in the volcanic rock in which it forms. When it comes to what one observes in thunderegg formations, this falls apart. They show evidence of multiple depositional phases (gas, gel and/or waterborne in fairly rapid succession) with intrusion of clays or even claylike minerals not a necessary factor. They are often found in perlite beds, some of which have weathered into near-clays long after the agate formation and not affecting the insides of the nodules at all. He denies that agates and zeolites can form in the same nodule, when they in fact do (zeolites also form along with or encapsulated within macrocrystaline quartz). Because he is so certain that chalcedony does not form from water-borne silica deposition, he has posited that only volcanic origin can explain agates that form in seabed deposits, when there is certainly silica in seawater and held in limestone - corals, seaweeds and other sea life depend on it. Saying that chalcedony (whether agate or jasper) doesn't form from water-borne deposition doesn't explain fossil-containing jaspers or jasperized wood, agate limb casts that preserve permineralized wood features, etc. He makes distinctions between jasper and chert that few accept as well. Jasper and agate are both traditional names given to chalcedony. There is no agreement among either mineralogists or gemologists as to what makes them different, other than the traditional distinction of opacity. I've mostly heard jasper derisively labeled with mud-related terms by some gemologists who dismiss jaspers as entirely unworthy of their attention - you know the type, their knowledge is focused on diamonds and sapphires with a nod to the one or two other gemstones they've happened to run across. I thus have a problem with the term and any association with jaspers all being formed from mud (fine, very high-silica ash, sometimes, among the several likely ways that it can form). There are materials that form from mud (mudstones and shales) that have nothing to do with jasper. Oh yeah, the Golden Gate bridge's "kinradite" was a great jasper. I've seen a very few slabs offered over the last few decades - some looks like the old material, some doesn't. Someone on another forum said that they'd found some small pieces along the shore, but I don't recall seeing any photos to confirm. Kinradite does closely resemble the "Oregonite" jasper (not the same as the mineral oregonite) that was dug in Oregon's Josephine county back in the 1930s and 1940s and is just as hard to find these days. Hornitos jasper can have a similar look and is more readily available. I'll second your recommendations for stephoinite and howardite/rattlesnake, too.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2017 9:48:45 GMT -5
Bravo @rocks2dust
|
|
ubermenehune
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2016
Posts: 293
|
Post by ubermenehune on Dec 15, 2017 16:04:48 GMT -5
Agreed. Thanks to you too Scott. This exactly the type of information i was looking for. I like learning about and researching new types of material. A couple months ago, i hadn't even heard of things like Biggs or porcelain/sci-fi jasper before, so i definitely appreciate the vets here pointing me in the right direction.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2017 16:28:37 GMT -5
Curious why only jaspers. No agates?
|
|
ubermenehune
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2016
Posts: 293
|
Post by ubermenehune on Dec 15, 2017 17:42:13 GMT -5
Generally speaking, I'm interested in all types of material, not just jasper.
I've just come across more higher-end jaspers lately, so it's kind of front-and-center right now. But overall, i'm interested in everything.
|
|
|
Post by Peruano on Dec 15, 2017 20:03:52 GMT -5
Has anyone pointed out that ocean jasper is not really jasper but a rhyolite. It's an example of " if it's pretty it's called jasper even if it's not a silicon dioxide. "
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2017 3:03:47 GMT -5
Has anyone pointed out that ocean jasper is not really jasper but a rhyolite. It's an example of " if it's pretty it's called jasper even if it's not a silicon dioxide. " Never heard that before. Please do, tell more.
|
|