jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Feb 1, 2018 10:06:48 GMT -5
quartz mentioned running barrels at 90% fill. I am following his lead on this approach. Especially with larger rock(s). And higher speeds. Larry is an old master at tumbling, been a great mentor. An 80 to 90% full barrel can almost not damage rocks, such a high fill prevents shock impacts with 100% certainty. Regardless of barrel shape and size. And does not reduce grind rate near as much as one would think.
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Post by MsAli on Feb 1, 2018 10:12:36 GMT -5
So another question If the barrel is a 3lb barrel and I'm at 80% fill, it puts me over the 3lbs in weight. What, if anything is the harm in that?
Faster motor wear?
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Feb 1, 2018 10:52:53 GMT -5
So another question If the barrel is a 3lb barrel and I'm at 80% fill, it puts me over the 3lbs in weight. What, if anything is the harm in that? Faster motor wear? This question has come up many times Alison. Take your barrel when it is empty and fill it half full with say dry gravel. Set it on an incline. Betcha it probably won't even roll down the hill. Now fill the barrel 100% and set it on an incline. Watch it roll down the hill by itself. A half full barrel will burn the motor out way faster than a full barrel because a full barrel is balanced. That is why water wheels make power. Granted it is heavier being 100% full, but it is also 100% balanced for rolling. Yes, more weight on the bearings but bearings are darn tough. They can handle the weight. A cement mixer is rarely more than 1/2 full. It takes a lot of power to turn it. Because there is so much friction rotating a 1/2 full barrel of sticky mix. Fill it 100% and there is zero friction from the mix, only a micro amount of friction in the supporting bearings. 50% barrel increases electricity usage. 80% barrel reduces electricity usage.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Feb 1, 2018 10:56:36 GMT -5
A ferris wheel full of sumo wrestlers on the left half, empty seats on the right half. Ferris wheel motor has to strain to lift the sumo boys. Granted, they will come down easily, no matter, the motor had to lift them big boys. Energy wasted..too late.
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Post by MsAli on Feb 1, 2018 12:55:32 GMT -5
So another question If the barrel is a 3lb barrel and I'm at 80% fill, it puts me over the 3lbs in weight. What, if anything is the harm in that? Faster motor wear? This question has come up many times Alison. Take your barrel when it is empty and fill it half full with say dry gravel. Set it on an incline. Betcha it probably won't even roll down the hill. Now fill the barrel 100% and set it on an incline. Watch it roll down the hill by itself. A half full barrel will burn the motor out way faster than a full barrel because a full barrel is balanced. That is why water wheels make power. Granted it is heavier being 100% full, but it is also 100% balanced for rolling. Yes, more weight on the bearings but bearings are darn tough. They can handle the weight. A cement mixer is rarely more than 1/2 full. It takes a lot of power to turn it. Because there is so much friction rotating a 1/2 full barrel of sticky mix. Fill it 100% and there is zero friction from the mix, only a micro amount of friction in the supporting bearings. 50% barrel increases electricity usage. 80% barrel reduces electricity usage. Totally makes sense. Thank you!!!
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Feb 1, 2018 13:12:34 GMT -5
This question has come up many times Alison. Take your barrel when it is empty and fill it half full with say dry gravel. Set it on an incline. Betcha it probably won't even roll down the hill. Now fill the barrel 100% and set it on an incline. Watch it roll down the hill by itself. A half full barrel will burn the motor out way faster than a full barrel because a full barrel is balanced. That is why water wheels make power. Granted it is heavier being 100% full, but it is also 100% balanced for rolling. Yes, more weight on the bearings but bearings are darn tough. They can handle the weight. A cement mixer is rarely more than 1/2 full. It takes a lot of power to turn it. Because there is so much friction rotating a 1/2 full barrel of sticky mix. Fill it 100% and there is zero friction from the mix, only a micro amount of friction in the supporting bearings. 50% barrel increases electricity usage. 80% barrel reduces electricity usage. Totally makes sense. Thank you!!!
Used to make the motor hot when running a full bank of barrels of hard tough coral in 60% barrel fills with thick clay slurry at fast speeds. Thick slurry adds friction to the roll too, that is why rocks grind faster with a thicker(not too thick) slurry. It sucks the rocks together and greatly increases grind force. Ever got you boot stuck in wet clay ? same game Georgia kaolin clay mine, best destination for dates
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Feb 1, 2018 13:15:34 GMT -5
Red neck Riviera, beautiful aquamarine water, 100F temps. Oh yea
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Post by MsAli on Feb 1, 2018 13:19:25 GMT -5
Oh my that would be fun!! Beautiful water!!
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quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,339
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Post by quartz on Feb 1, 2018 15:34:49 GMT -5
Quote from above: quartz mentioned running barrels at 90% fill. I am following his lead on this approach. Especially with larger rock(s). And higher speeds. Larry is an old master at tumbling, been a great mentor. Yep, I'm old, a master at tumbling ?, well, I've tried really hard to get it right. A great mentor, thanks, I'd rather say we've bounced ideas back and forth for quite a while now, and jamesp got glass right and I haven't yet. I do appreciate the bouncing of ideas and thoughts here on the forum, it helps us all do a better job of what we enjoy; making shiny rocks, or glass.
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Post by MsAli on Feb 1, 2018 16:28:51 GMT -5
I am now the proud owner of a Lortone 45C
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zzyzzyx
having dreams about rocks
Member since October 2017
Posts: 60
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Post by zzyzzyx on Feb 1, 2018 18:35:52 GMT -5
Alikat you like that Lortone. I havent boyght yet
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Post by MsAli on Feb 1, 2018 18:48:18 GMT -5
Alikat you like that Lortone. I havent boyght yet I will let you know when I get it-right now I have a 3lb Harbor Freight
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Post by aDave on Feb 1, 2018 20:14:47 GMT -5
I am now the proud owner of a Lortone 45C Congrats. I think you'll really like it compared to what you are currently using. You'll shape in coarse more efficiently, and the rocks will respond better simply due to the little bit larger size and additional weight in the barrel. I think you'll be happy. OK, here's where I get to spend a bit more of your money, if it's do-able for you. Many advocate multiple barrels, and I tend to agree. At a minimum, I would recommend one barrel for coarse, one barrel for medium and fine, and one barrel for polish. Currently, I'm using specific barrels for every stage, and that's just me. But, don't let the fact that you are dealing with only one barrel get you down. I had decent results back in the day when my son was young, and we were doing this stuff for him. One barrel will work fine IMHO until you get things sorted out the way you want. Bear with my long story. I pulled the 45c out of hiatus and started rolling again about a year ago. I quickly realized I needed more tumblers and bought an additional 45c. As it turned out, that didn't cut it for me, and I eventually bought a QT66. So, my current setup is using a QT66 for my coarse grinds, and when I get enough material to move on I do so in the 45c's. So, that means I always run the larger tumbler and then do finish work between the two additional 45c's. I happen to like only dealing with small loads in the finish stages, so the 45c works well for me in that respect. Right now, I choose to not deal with a vibe tumbler for finish work. I just don't know if I have the dedication, even though results from them are pretty stellar. Just to give you an idea of what I do, since I'm an "all rotary" kind of guy, this is my regimen: Run a constant coarse stage with a QT66. The rocks (usually) are checked every week, and rocks that are ready to move on are pulled for the next stage. This only works if you have new rough to backfill what you removed. I don't worry about putting them in water, as I'm usually trying to tumble out all imperfections (which keeps grit from being trapped). With your 45c, you can probably get away with using 60/90 as your grit. Not enough weight of material in the barrel to adequately break down 46/70. I also use "old" slurry as a thickener. If you don't save your stuff and dry it out, clay kitty litter can be used as a slurry thickener. The thickened slurry adds to the consistency and will help cushion your rocks which results in less bruising/fractures. Medium stage ( Sic 120/220) is then run for about 7-10 days. Depends how lazy I am Fine stage (AO 500) is run for two weeks. I am looking for grit breakdown over that time instead of using a finer pre-polish grit after this step. Burnish with Borax for about 6 hours. Just looking to clean any trapped grit if I can. Polish for three weeks with one micron 1:14,000 AO polish Burnish with borax for 6 hours. I use plastic pellets in all stages after coarse, and the pellets are never moved on with the rocks. They are dedicated for every single step. Wow, far more than what you "asked for" with your comment about buying a new tumbler, but I'm excited for you and simply wanted to share. As always, if you have rotary related questions, please don't hesitate to ask. Best regards. Dave
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Post by MsAli on Feb 1, 2018 20:23:31 GMT -5
Dave no such thing as too much information. I appreciate everything!! You are talking me into at least 1 more barrel, but that will have to wait. I have to be a responsible adult and pay bills😣 I also added pellets to the order and picked up some Borax. Resisted adding more rough. Which was extremely hard for me. I'm excited and cannot wait for it to get here. Going to start those competition agates in it.
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quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,339
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Post by quartz on Feb 1, 2018 23:50:55 GMT -5
I've had good luck using air soft pellets for my cushioning, use the camo ones because they don't float. I find them to be cheaper than other kinds of pellets, and readily available here.
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Post by MsAli on Feb 1, 2018 23:52:54 GMT -5
I've had good luck using air soft pellets for my cushioning, use the camo ones because they don't float. I find them to be cheaper than other kinds of pellets, and readily available here. What a great idea!
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Post by aDave on Feb 2, 2018 0:16:48 GMT -5
I've had good luck using air soft pellets for my cushioning, use the camo ones because they don't float. I find them to be cheaper than other kinds of pellets, and readily available here. What a great idea! FWIW, I use the standard plastic pellets that can be bought at most rock suppliers. The fact that they float is HUGE. When I dump my load into a bucket, I just use a small sieve to remove all of the floating pellets. I wouldn't want to sift rocks from pellets if they don't float. That's just me.
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Post by MsAli on Feb 2, 2018 0:36:20 GMT -5
I've got some coming with the tumbler. I think i'll try both and see what I like best. I have some ceramic media as well, but not sure I am a fan of it yet.
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Post by MsAli on Feb 3, 2018 15:16:33 GMT -5
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Win
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2017
Posts: 336
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Post by Win on Feb 4, 2018 9:25:06 GMT -5
Lookin' good, George came out great!
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