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Post by arghvark on Feb 19, 2018 12:26:45 GMT -5
All you oldtimers (in terms of experience, not age!) should get a 'duh' chuckle out of this.
I have a Lortone 33B and a QT66. There are worlds of difference in slurry production and grit breakdown, as well as agressivity of tumble.
The big'un works much, much more aggressively on the very rough agate from this area. Took me a couple loads to realize the QT66 will mow through that heavily pitted stuff at least a couple times faster than the tiny one.
I've been using parts of different folks' techniques gleaned from here, and I'm really liking the technique of adding 3-4 tbsp of rough grit every three days or so. In the QT66. The baby one just sort of mopes along using this technique. It doesn't break down grit (46/70) nearly as fast. Especially if the barrel is even slightly overfilled.
All this makes complete sense from a newtonian physics point of view (mass and acceleration and force, oh my!) although it sometimes takes a bit for the lightbulb to come on.
So a word to the noobs (like me!) out there: don't just follow recipes. Get to know your tumblers. Make detailed notes on material, grit amounts, times, slurry consistency (touch it and feel it, don't just look at it) and results. In conjunction with all the expert knowledge here, after just a few loads you'll see pretty amazing progress in results.
Thanks to you all for sharing your wealth of experience on makin' purty stuff outta ugly stuff.
Argh
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,423
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Post by Wooferhound on Feb 19, 2018 15:18:04 GMT -5
I have had my QT66 and 3A for a year now so not exactly an Old Timer, but I think that 80 course grit works pretty good in the smaller Lortone 3A. Yes definitely a big difference between the 3 and 6 pound barrels.
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Post by grumpybill on Feb 19, 2018 16:38:34 GMT -5
I notice a big difference between my Lortone 3lb. barrels and my 45C. 5 Tbsps. of 60/90 in the 4lb. barrel usually breaks down to where I can't feel it after 4 days. 3 Tbsps. of 60/90 in a 3lb. usually takes 7 -9 days to break down to that point.
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Post by arghvark on Feb 19, 2018 17:38:04 GMT -5
I notice a big difference between my Lortone 3lb. barrels and my 45C. 5 Tbsps. of 60/90 in the 4lb. barrel usually breaks down to where I can't feel it after 4 days. 3 Tbsps. of 60/90 in a 3lb. usually takes 7 -9 days to break down to that point. This is consistent with what I see. The 45C barrel is the same diameter as the QT66 barrels, and I'm fairly sure it turns at the same speed. (My mom has one.) Newton again...
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Post by aDave on Feb 19, 2018 18:28:10 GMT -5
I notice a big difference between my Lortone 3lb. barrels and my 45C. 5 Tbsps. of 60/90 in the 4lb. barrel usually breaks down to where I can't feel it after 4 days. 3 Tbsps. of 60/90 in a 3lb. usually takes 7 -9 days to break down to that point. This is consistent with what I see. The 45C barrel is the same diameter as the QT66 barrels, and I'm fairly sure it turns at the same speed. (My mom has one.) Newton again... Sorry, but that's not the case. A 45C barrel is roughly an inch or so smaller. 45C turns at about 34 rpm, and a QT 66 turns at about 31 rpm (at least that's what mine are doing.
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Post by grumpybill on Feb 19, 2018 18:55:26 GMT -5
The 45C barrel is also a flimsy piece of crap.
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Post by aDave on Feb 19, 2018 19:07:04 GMT -5
The 45C barrel is also a flimsy piece of crap. Really? How so? I use 2 45C's for all stages after coarse and have never had a problem. Serious questions.
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Post by grumpybill on Feb 19, 2018 19:52:47 GMT -5
The 45C barrel is also a flimsy piece of crap. Really? How so? I use 2 45C's for all stages after coarse and have never had a problem. Serious questions. Disclaimer: I bought it used, so I can't say how much the first barrel may have been used/abused. Within a few weeks it got so out-of-round that it rubbed against the frame on the side with the lower roller. (There is very little space between the frame and barrel on that side.) Rubbed so much that before I caught it the first time, it had stopped turning and left a pile of rubber residue on the edge of the frame. Another time it climbed clear out of the frame. Just going by eye, I'd say the barrel was 1/2" larger in diameter in the middle than at the ends once it got rolling. I don't have much confidence that the new barrel will fair any better over time. Sometimes it's a be-atch holding it round enough to get the inner lid in place. I'm happy with my 3-1.5, 3A and 33B, but in my (not so) humble opinion, the 45C is a poor design. Glad that your experience is better than mine has been so far.
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snuffy
Cave Dweller
Member since May 2009
Posts: 4,319
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Post by snuffy on Feb 19, 2018 20:07:52 GMT -5
Really? How so? I use 2 45C's for all stages after coarse and have never had a problem. Serious questions. Disclaimer: I bought it used, so I can't say how much the first barrel may have been used/abused. Within a few weeks it got so out-of-round that it rubbed against the frame on the side with the lower roller. (There is very little space between the frame and barrel on that side.) Rubbed so much that before I caught it the first time, it had stopped turning and left a pile of rubber residue on the edge of the frame. Another time it climbed clear out of the frame. Just going by eye, I'd say the barrel was 1/2" larger in diameter in the middle than at the ends once it got rolling. I don't have much confidence that the new barrel will fair any better over time. Sometimes it's a be-atch holding it round enough to get the inner lid in place. I'm happy with my 3-1.5, 3A and 33B, but in my (not so) humble opinion, the 45C is a poor design. Glad that your experience is better than mine has been so far. Out of round was my experience with my 45c,not thinness.Of course I dug it out of my garage after it sat there over 30 years.Had nothing but good luck after buying a new barrel. snuffy
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Post by grumpybill on Feb 19, 2018 20:17:28 GMT -5
Thanks, snuffy , that increases my confidence in the new barrel. It just seems flimsy to me. It bulges/changes shape as the stones roll/slide around inside it.
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Post by arghvark on Feb 19, 2018 20:37:52 GMT -5
Sorry, but that's not the case. A 45C barrel is roughly an inch or so smaller. 45C turns at about 34 rpm, and a QT 66 turns at about 31 rpm (at least that's what mine are doing. Lol, oops, so much for not actually comparing them side by side. They _seemed_ the same size separated by a 9 and-a-half hour drive...
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Post by aDave on Feb 19, 2018 23:54:04 GMT -5
Disclaimer: I bought it used, so I can't say how much the first barrel may have been used/abused. Within a few weeks it got so out-of-round that it rubbed against the frame on the side with the lower roller. (There is very little space between the frame and barrel on that side.) Rubbed so much that before I caught it the first time, it had stopped turning and left a pile of rubber residue on the edge of the frame. Another time it climbed clear out of the frame. Just going by eye, I'd say the barrel was 1/2" larger in diameter in the middle than at the ends once it got rolling. I don't have much confidence that the new barrel will fair any better over time. Sometimes it's a be-atch holding it round enough to get the inner lid in place. I'm happy with my 3-1.5, 3A and 33B, but in my (not so) humble opinion, the 45C is a poor design. Glad that your experience is better than mine has been so far. I'm actually surprised to see your experience considering mine. I've got two 45C's and two additional barrels that I use. I've never had any of the problems you describe, but at the same time, I'm not going to try to counter them. All I can say is my 45C's have been flawless. You are the first person I've ever seen that has complained about Lortone barrels of any sort. Not discounting your story...just seems extremely out of the norm.
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Post by spiceman on Feb 20, 2018 1:01:28 GMT -5
All you oldtimers (in terms of experience, not age!) should get a 'duh' chuckle out of this. I have a Lortone 33B and a QT66. There are worlds of difference in slurry production and grit breakdown, as well as agressivity of tumble. The big'un works much, much more aggressively on the very rough agate from this area. Took me a couple loads to realize the QT66 will mow through that heavily pitted stuff at least a couple times faster than the tiny one. I've been using parts of different folks' techniques gleaned from here, and I'm really liking the technique of adding 3-4 tbsp of rough grit every three days or so. In the QT66. The baby one just sort of mopes along using this technique. It doesn't break down grit (46/70) nearly as fast. Especially if the barrel is even slightly overfilled. All this makes complete sense from a newtonian physics point of view (mass and acceleration and force, oh my!) although it sometimes takes a bit for the lightbulb to come on. So a word to the noobs (like me!) out there: don't just follow recipes. Get to know your tumblers. Make detailed notes on material, grit amounts, times, slurry consistency (touch it and feel it, don't just look at it) and results. In conjunction with all the expert knowledge here, after just a few loads you'll see pretty amazing progress in results. Thanks to you all for sharing your wealth of experience on makin' purty stuff outta ugly stuff. Argh But, the bottom line is ... It sounds like your doing a good job. Taking notes and finding out what works best for you. Good job
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Post by grumpybill on Feb 20, 2018 5:46:33 GMT -5
...just seems extremely out of the norm. Trust me, that's not the first time someone has said that (or worse) about me. <laughing> I probably shouldn't have brought it up, especially as an OT post in someone else's thread. But it's been on my chest for several months and as my friends and family say: Grumpy Bill's not happy unless he's complaining about something. Overall, I'm happy with the critter. Just unsure how much life I'll get out of the barrel before it needs replaced again. Your comments have eased my mind greatly. (Before I leave this thread I'll mention that I don't think I'm the only person to make this observation about the 45C. I've read similar things in a few "reviews" online.)
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snuffy
Cave Dweller
Member since May 2009
Posts: 4,319
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Post by snuffy on Feb 20, 2018 7:35:18 GMT -5
Thanks, snuffy , that increases my confidence in the new barrel. It just seems flimsy to me. It bulges/changes shape as the stones roll/slide around inside it. I will have to add that the last barrel I bought was over 10 years ago.They may be thinner now.Doesnt seem right that a new barrel would do that.Did you buy it from Shawn at the rock shed?If you did,I would give him a call. snuffy
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Feb 20, 2018 7:38:11 GMT -5
On the subject of bigger barrels. Pretend the barrel was extremely big like 48 inches. No doubt there would be more scrubbing and grinding and with increased pressure from shear rock weight. There would also be more idle time when any given rock is not in the grinding section. Believe the shear grinding pressure would trump all factors except maybe speed. 8 inch barrels at 63 RPM with high 85% fill. High fill to reduce rock banging. Even with high fill the abrasive usage goes way up as does the rate of wear on the rocks. No doubt about it size matters. And so does speed. 85% fill is gentle enough at high speeds and a large 8 inch barrel. How gentle is the grind with a watery slurry covering the rocks ? Gentle enough not to break tiny thin slivers of glass. 1/16 of an inch thick/29 carats. This sets up a comparison, high RPM with a gentler high barrel fill verses lower RPM and a more aggressive lower barrel fill. I prefer high RPM high barrel fill. Unconventional but it is simply a faster gentler grind and allows a less thick slurry and speeds fast enough to circulate and mix bigger abrasives.
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Post by arghvark on Feb 21, 2018 11:42:53 GMT -5
On the subject of bigger barrels. Pretend the barrel was extremely big like 48 inches. No doubt there would be more scrubbing and grinding and with increased pressure from shear rock weight. There would also be more idle time when any given rock is not in the grinding section. Believe the shear grinding pressure would trump all factors except maybe speed. 8 inch barrels at 63 RPM with high 85% fill. High fill to reduce rock banging. Even with high fill the abrasive usage goes way up as does the rate of wear on the rocks. No doubt about it size matters. And so does speed. 85% fill is gentle enough at high speeds and a large 8 inch barrel. How gentle is the grind with a watery slurry covering the rocks ? Gentle enough not to break tiny thin slivers of glass. 1/16 of an inch thick/29 carats. This sets up a comparison, high RPM with a gentler high barrel fill verses lower RPM and a more aggressive lower barrel fill. I prefer high RPM high barrel fill. Unconventional but it is simply a faster gentler grind and allows a less thick slurry and speeds fast enough to circulate and mix bigger abrasives. I think Newton would agree with you.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Feb 21, 2018 15:29:37 GMT -5
On the subject of bigger barrels. Pretend the barrel was extremely big like 48 inches. No doubt there would be more scrubbing and grinding and with increased pressure from shear rock weight. There would also be more idle time when any given rock is not in the grinding section. Believe the shear grinding pressure would trump all factors except maybe speed. 8 inch barrels at 63 RPM with high 85% fill. High fill to reduce rock banging. Even with high fill the abrasive usage goes way up as does the rate of wear on the rocks. No doubt about it size matters. And so does speed. 85% fill is gentle enough at high speeds and a large 8 inch barrel. How gentle is the grind with a watery slurry covering the rocks ? Gentle enough not to break tiny thin slivers of glass. 1/16 of an inch thick/29 carats. This sets up a comparison, high RPM with a gentler high barrel fill verses lower RPM and a more aggressive lower barrel fill. I prefer high RPM high barrel fill. Unconventional but it is simply a faster gentler grind and allows a less thick slurry and speeds fast enough to circulate and mix bigger abrasives. I think Newton would agree with you. where is that rascal when you need him lol.
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