stretch316
noticing nice landscape pebbles
The only dumb question, is the one NOT asked ; I don't use credit cards
Member since December 2018
Posts: 77
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Post by stretch316 on Dec 3, 2018 9:49:39 GMT -5
Good day; I've just started Rock Tumbling.
I used the #4 grit polish that came with the Tumbler and here is the picture with the result. Not very shiny. I've been doing some reading and I'm seeings comments about Pre-polish and polish steps. These steps were not mentioned in the booklet I received with the tumbler. I'm reading articles about using products like: car rubbing compound, car polish, mineral oil and Granite and Stone Countertop Polishes.
May I ask for some assistance in making sense concerning Pre-polish and polish please?
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Post by greig on Dec 3, 2018 9:58:22 GMT -5
Pre-polish (fine grit) is stage 3 and polish is stage 4. If you missed one of these steps then my best advice is go back and do it. If you did these steps, take one of the rocks and rub it for a while on a soft cloth and see if it shines up. If so, you should burnish (usually with non-perfumed soap flakes such as Ivory Soap). You should not have to use auto or other products.
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rodeodan
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since January 2010
Posts: 213
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Post by rodeodan on Dec 3, 2018 10:02:32 GMT -5
Morning Stretch. for regular agates and jasper, here is my process:
46/70 SiC: until shaped 120/220 SiC: 7 - 10 days Pre Polish (AO): 7 - 10 days Polish (AO): 7-10 days
For the most part, these steps work for me but others have different and equally effective processes
dan
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stretch316
noticing nice landscape pebbles
The only dumb question, is the one NOT asked ; I don't use credit cards
Member since December 2018
Posts: 77
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Post by stretch316 on Dec 3, 2018 10:03:58 GMT -5
Sorry greig , not what the instructions, in the booklet I got, said. 1) Coarse Grit #1 : 2 -3 days, high speed 2) 1 Tbls soap – 24 hours low speed 3) Medium Grit #2 : 5 – 7 days medium speed 4) 1 Tbls soap – 24 hours low speed 5) Fine Grit #3 : 5-7 days low speed 6) 1 Tbls soap – 24 hours low speed 7) Grit Polish #4 : 7 – 10 days low speed
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stretch316
noticing nice landscape pebbles
The only dumb question, is the one NOT asked ; I don't use credit cards
Member since December 2018
Posts: 77
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Post by stretch316 on Dec 3, 2018 10:09:44 GMT -5
Hi rodeodan. the packages had no information on them about grade.
I'm switching to plan 2 1) Coarse Grit #1 : 9 days, high speed 2) 1 Tbls soap – 24 hours low speed 3) Medium Grit #2 : 9 days medium speed 4) 1 Tbls soap – 24 hours low speed 5) Fine Grit #3 : 9 days low speed 6) 1 Tbls soap – 24 hours low speed
Looking for clarification on doing Pre-polish and polish steps, after the initial rock tumbling mentioned. 7) Grit Polish #4 : 9 days low speed
I'm working with quartz, agates and jasper.
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Post by fernwood on Dec 4, 2018 7:10:38 GMT -5
Thanks for joining and welcome. Hope someone used to a multi-speed tumbler can help.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Dec 4, 2018 8:05:57 GMT -5
Sorry greig , not what the instructions, in the booklet I got, said. 1) Coarse Grit #1 : 2 -3 days, high speed 2) 1 Tbls soap – 24 hours low speed 3) Medium Grit #2 : 5 – 7 days medium speed 4) 1 Tbls soap – 24 hours low speed 5) Fine Grit #3 : 5-7 days low speed 6) 1 Tbls soap – 24 hours low speed 7) Grit Polish #4 : 7 – 10 days low speed If you followed those instructions and were not happy with the results then ditch the instructions and take the advice you find here. The first thing most people are going to tell you is to disregard your booklet. The instructions that come with rock tumblers are written to make it sound simple and fast so they can sell more rock tumblers. As far as your question about pre-polish and polish those are just words. Numbers tell the story. 800,1000,1200 are all sold as pre-polish. Some companies sell polish that is only 1200 grit and then some are as high as 14,000 grit. Plus there are multiple types of polish like Aluminum oxide, tin oxide, cerium oxide etc... What brand is your tumbler? what is the barrel capacity and diameter? how many RPM is high speed? what RPM is low speed? Chuck
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stretch316
noticing nice landscape pebbles
The only dumb question, is the one NOT asked ; I don't use credit cards
Member since December 2018
Posts: 77
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Post by stretch316 on Dec 4, 2018 10:37:12 GMT -5
Hi Drummond Island Rocks. yup listened to some people, will be changing run times. new plan:#2 1) Grit #1 : 9 days, high speed 2) 1 Tbls soap – 24 hours low speed 3) Grit #2 : 9 days medium speed 4) 1 Tbls soap – 24 hours low speed 5) Grit #3 : 10 days low speed add plastic for cushioning 6) 1 Tbls soap – 24 hours low speed add plastic for cushioning 7) Grit Polish #4 : 10 days low speed add plastic for cushioning 8) 1 Tbls soap – 24 hours low speed add plastic for cushioning 9) Rinse and dry 10) Polishing - 28 days being increased to 38 days using various grits. Barrel holds about 2 lbs of gems tones. Booklet does not tell me the rpm of the three different speed settings. Grit rating not printed on packages
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Dec 4, 2018 10:47:42 GMT -5
RPM is a really easy calculation on a tumbler. Put a piece of tape on the barrel and count how many times it goes around in 30 seconds then multiply by 2. Knowing the RPM and barrel diameter will let us compare it to some of the more common brands. You mention 9 days in stage one. My stage one is 7 days to infinity. Beach rocks that are already pretty well rounded off will be ready for stage 2 in 7 days but then I also have some Montana agates that have been in stage one for at least 20 weeks. That's with cleaning out the barrel and adding fresh stage one grit each week. General rule of thumb is that they need to keep repeating stage one till you are 100 percent happy with the look and feel of the stones. No flaws will be removed in the following stages. The following stages just remove the scratches left by the previous stages. I have always disliked those grit packs that do not give any clues to what is inside. More then likely in those type of packages: grit #1 will be around 60-100 grit S/C grit #2 will be around 120-220 grit S/C grit #3 will be around 500-600 grit S/C Grit #4 polish is probably a 1200 grit aluminum oxide (this is really classified as a pre-polish around here) If you find you like the hobby and are going to stick with it you really should hit up a tumbling supply house for your next grit/polish purchase. www.therockshed.com is one of the best for supplies. Chuck
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stretch316
noticing nice landscape pebbles
The only dumb question, is the one NOT asked ; I don't use credit cards
Member since December 2018
Posts: 77
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Post by stretch316 on Dec 4, 2018 10:55:30 GMT -5
I'm trying to wrap my head around the terms: pre-polish and polish. So , pre-polish is grit that is 800, 1000, 1200. This should be Tumble run #4? Polish is +1200 grit to 14,000 grit. Used in Tumble run #5? Are Car polishes graded with a grit# ?
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stretch316
noticing nice landscape pebbles
The only dumb question, is the one NOT asked ; I don't use credit cards
Member since December 2018
Posts: 77
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Post by stretch316 on Dec 4, 2018 11:04:14 GMT -5
RPM is a really easy calculation on a tumbler. Put a piece of tape on the barrel and count how many times it goes around in 30 seconds then multiply by 2. Knowing the RPM and barrel diameter will let us compare it to some of the more common brands. You mention 9 days in stage one. My stage one is 7 days to infinity. Beach rocks that are already pretty well rounded off will be ready for stage 2 in 7 days but then I also have some Montana agates that have been in stage one for at least 20 weeks. That's with cleaning out the barrel and adding fresh stage one grit each week. General rule of thumb is that they need to keep repeating stage one till you are 100 percent happy with the look and feel of the stones. No flaws will be removed in the following stages. The following stages just remove the scratches left by the previous stages. I have always disliked those grit packs that do not give any clues to what is inside. More then likely in those type of packages: grit #1 will be around 60-100 grit S/C grit #2 will be around 120-220 grit S/C grit #3 will be around 500-600 grit S/C Grit #4 polish is probably a 1200 grit aluminum oxide (this is really classified as a pre-polish around here) If you find you like the hobby and are going to stick with it you really should hit up a tumbling supply house for your next grit/polish purchase. Okay, now I need a stop watch. Thanks for the stage 1 advice. I've talked to a local business, they are looking into supplying tumble grit. I don't own a credit card and I haven't found a tumbling supply house in Kings County. .
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Post by johnjsgems on Dec 4, 2018 11:50:58 GMT -5
Terminology is confusing because the tumbler manufacturers often call the fine grit (step 3) "pre polish". Most tumbler users say coarse, medium, fine grit. Polish last. Burnishing before polish and after. If a hard to polish stone a pre polish run in a fine alumina (1000 or finer) or powdered tripoli helps before polish. The grit kits with tumblers are usually a teaser. The coarse grit will never be enough. You need to run 7-10 days in coarse (maybe sufficient if your tumbler is high speed). Then after washing and inspecting the rocks you may need to either repeat or separate the rocks ready to move on from the ones that need more. Add more rock to keep level around 3/4 full. When you have enough rock for step 2 run for 7-10 days. Wash well before fine grit. You can adjust duration based on your tumbler speed. I an tell you from talking to customers for many years the biggest problem is letting barrel level reduce during process. Picture the rocks rolling in the drum with barrel 3/4 full. If load reduces in coarse and medium to half full by the time you get to polish the stones roll to top and then drop hitting the stones below. You end up with hazy, battered rocks. Another cause of bad polish is not running previous steps long enough. You should be seeing some kind of satin sheen after the fine grit if the rocks will polish. If you try to polish scratched rocks you will just make the scratches show more. A good polish for barrel tumblers is aluminum oxide in the 3-4 micron range. I second the recommendation for the Rock Shed.
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netman225
off to a rocking start
Member since December 2018
Posts: 1
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Post by netman225 on Dec 4, 2018 12:20:43 GMT -5
I bought the National Geographic beginner tumbler and went thru all four stages, Used all four grits and my stones came out like your stones, smooth but not shiny, So I joined this board today, Now I have to go get some ivory soap and try that. 1 month of tumbling and not the result I wanted but Im willing to try the soap.
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stretch316
noticing nice landscape pebbles
The only dumb question, is the one NOT asked ; I don't use credit cards
Member since December 2018
Posts: 77
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Post by stretch316 on Dec 4, 2018 12:47:01 GMT -5
Hi netman225;
Looks like it will take some experimentation to get the results we want.
Thankfully, its winter time this way and I have plenty of material to use to experiment with.
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stretch316
noticing nice landscape pebbles
The only dumb question, is the one NOT asked ; I don't use credit cards
Member since December 2018
Posts: 77
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Post by stretch316 on Dec 4, 2018 12:57:13 GMT -5
Terminology is confusing because the tumbler manufacturers often call the fine grit (step 3) "pre polish". Most tumbler users say coarse, medium, fine grit. Polish last. Burnishing before polish and after. If a hard to polish stone a pre polish run in a fine alumina (1000 or finer) or powdered tripoli helps before polish. The grit kits with tumblers are usually a teaser. The coarse grit will never be enough. You need to run 7-10 days in coarse (maybe sufficient if your tumbler is high speed). Then after washing and inspecting the rocks you may need to either repeat or separate the rocks ready to move on from the ones that need more. Add more rock to keep level around 3/4 full. When you have enough rock for step 2 run for 7-10 days. Wash well before fine grit. You can adjust duration based on your tumbler speed. I an tell you from talking to customers for many years the biggest problem is letting barrel level reduce during process. Picture the rocks rolling in the drum with barrel 3/4 full. If load reduces in coarse and medium to half full by the time you get to polish the stones roll to top and then drop hitting the stones below. You end up with hazy, battered rocks. Another cause of bad polish is not running previous steps long enough. You should be seeing some kind of satin sheen after the fine grit if the rocks will polish. If you try to polish scratched rocks you will just make the scratches show more. A good polish for barrel tumblers is aluminum oxide in the 3-4 micron range. I second the recommendation for the Rock Shed. Good day johnjsgems;
I'm chewing through what you've said, making notes. Maybe I should run all stages for 10 days. Trying to think of what kind of businesses would be using grit and check with them to see if I could buy any.
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Post by johnjsgems on Dec 4, 2018 18:09:36 GMT -5
If no lapidary suppliers, try metal finishing suppliers or blasting media, etc. Shipping would be painful to Canada from Kingsley North or Rock Shed.
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stretch316
noticing nice landscape pebbles
The only dumb question, is the one NOT asked ; I don't use credit cards
Member since December 2018
Posts: 77
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Post by stretch316 on Dec 4, 2018 20:30:49 GMT -5
If no lapidary suppliers, try metal finishing suppliers or blasting media, etc. Shipping would be painful to Canada from Kingsley North or Rock Shed.
Thanks for the suggestions. I don't have a credit card, I refuse to use them. I do all my shopping locally.
Lapidary suppliers - Scotia Prospecting Supplies, about 1 hour away from me. Metal finishing suppliers - Hydraulics Plus, about 1 hour away from me. blasting media - Dustless Blasting Atlantic, about 1.5 hours away from me.
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Post by aDave on Dec 4, 2018 21:50:32 GMT -5
I bought the National Geographic beginner tumbler and went thru all four stages, Used all four grits and my stones came out like your stones, smooth but not shiny, So I joined this board today, Now I have to go get some ivory soap and try that. 1 month of tumbling and not the result I wanted but Im willing to try the soap. Forgive me what is seemingly harsh. From what anyone of us serious tumblers have seen, the Nat Geo tumblers are pretty lacking when it comes to producing polished rocks with satisfactory results. Quite frankly, IMHO, it's hard to say why it's so, but there are a myriad of folks who come here complaining about tumbling results at the end of the day. Factors to consider: -A mixed bag of rocks with varying hardness. Not all rocks tumble to polish to the same degree. Personally, I'm skeptical about what is provided with the kit. Some rocks may not polish no matter what you do. -Instructions that are pretty lacking and are inaccurate about tumbling times. Instructions that are included with most tumblers miss the mark in what needs to be done time-wise. Most often, this relates to the first step. All shaping takes place there, and alot of the instructions simply indicate a one week tumble here. That's glaringly wrong...most of us are tumbling in the first stage for weeks, if not months. Nat Geo does you no help when it comes to grit and how long you should tumble for a period of time. More than anything, you're using a barrel that holds very little rock which takes away from tumbling efficiency. If you have more weight in your barrel, grit can work appropriately. In a perfect world, if you're serious about tumbling, I'd look to get nothing less than a Lortone 45C. It holds enough rock that allows the different grits to break down properly and shape down rocks in the initial stage. All that said, throw away the instructions that came with your tumbler. Flat out, the instructions are pretty much wrong. Then, go to a place like the Rock Shed which you can find online. Buy grit packs from there...there is usually no better price anywhere. Your tumbling should go in the following stages: !st - 60/90 grit with the tumbling going until you are satisfied with the shape of the rocks. It might take far longer than you might expect. 2nd- 120/220 grit for one to two weeks. Your call. 3rd - 500 grit. Run for at least one week. 4th - Polish 13,000 to 14,000 grit. One to two weeks. That's the most basic run that you can do with a rotary. Your barrel size limits you with grit breakdown, as weight of the rocks help with running grit. Again, what I've listed are merely starting points. You may have to tweak things later on, especially if you choose to keep trying that Nat Geo tumbler. You've mentioned trying soap to burnish. I don't think you're there yet, so don't waste your time. Burnishing only removes films from a highly polished rock. IMHO, you aren't there yet.
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stretch316
noticing nice landscape pebbles
The only dumb question, is the one NOT asked ; I don't use credit cards
Member since December 2018
Posts: 77
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Post by stretch316 on Dec 5, 2018 3:55:28 GMT -5
Forgive me what is seemingly harsh. From what anyone of us serious tumblers have seen, the Nat Geo tumblers are pretty lacking when it comes to producing polished rocks with satisfactory results. Quite frankly, IMHO, it's hard to say why it's so, but there are a myriad of folks who come here complaining about tumbling results at the end of the day. Factors to consider: -A mixed bag of rocks with varying hardness. Not all rocks tumble to polish to the same degree. Personally, I'm skeptical about what is provided with the kit. Some rocks may not polish no matter what you do. -Instructions that are pretty lacking and are inaccurate about tumbling times. Instructions that are included with most tumblers miss the mark in what needs to be done time-wise. Most often, this relates to the first step. All shaping takes place there, and alot of the instructions simply indicate a one week tumble here. That's glaringly wrong...most of us are tumbling in the first stage for weeks, if not months. Nat Geo does you no help when it comes to grit and how long you should tumble for a period of time. More than anything, you're using a barrel that holds very little rock which takes away from tumbling efficiency. If you have more weight in your barrel, grit can work appropriately. All that said, throw away the instructions that came with your tumbler. Flat out, the instructions are pretty much wrong. Your tumbling should go in the following stages: 1st - 60/90 grit with the tumbling going until you are satisfied with the shape of the rocks. It might take far longer than you might expect. 2nd- 120/220 grit for one to two weeks. Your call. 3rd - 500 grit. Run for at least one week. 4th - Polish 13,000 to 14,000 grit. One to two weeks. That's the most basic run that you can do with a rotary. Your barrel size limits you with grit breakdown, as weight of the rocks help with running grit. Again, what I've listed are merely starting points. You may have to tweak things later on, especially if you choose to keep trying that Nat Geo tumbler. Thank you aDave; You've said what I've been thinking about the tumbler kit I bought. Never one to waste anything, I'll experiment to get the results I'm looking for. Thanks for the tumbling and grit info. I can load about 2 lb of gem stone in my barrel.
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Post by As I in does tries! on Dec 5, 2018 5:17:39 GMT -5
Greetings [stretch316] you may find the two weblinks useful, as here on RTH the only vendors that seem to exist are "The Rock Shed" for tumbling supplies, "JS Gems Lapidary" for high end or cabbing machines and "Kingsley North" for bulk grits, there are vendors elsewhere including Canada, it was a sticky for a number of years, but no more, the other is still a sticky! Vendors worldwideAussie Lapidary Forum: Rock Tumbling Guide!
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