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Post by Bluesky78987 on Jan 3, 2019 12:01:41 GMT -5
Hi Julie. You're getting really good comments on here. I'd like to exapand on what Opalrexia said "almost always gradual, sloping/curved sides with really no definite girdle or "break" where the dome starts." I TOTALLY agree, as an intermediate silversmith.
Before I took up silversmithing, I cut my cabs with girdles with nice sharp corners like a lot of folks on here. They look very nice, and show off how even your cab is. But when I started learning silversmithing and tried to bezel set those stones, I found that the sharp girdle corner is a TOTAL PAIN IN THE YOU-KNOW-WHAT if you're going to bezel set. Like, basically impossible to do well without significant additional (difficult to get right) steps. I'd love to hear how pro silversmiths set stones with sharp girdles (maybe there's some secret I don't know?), but my feeling is that a sharp girdle corner makes a cab a "no-buy-cab" or (if it's really nice, a "buy-it-and-recut-it" stone). I just went and looked at the cabs I have purchased (mostly at the Tucson show, of materials too fancy for me to cut) - none have a girdle line visible.
If you're just going to sell, and not set the stones yourself, you might be fine doing it this way. Wire wrappers seem to like the sharp corner, as it provides a better grip for the wires apparently (don't know exactly). And I wonder if most of the Etsy buyers might be wire wrappers? But if you want to set them yourself, I'd advise rounding over that girdle line more than you're doing.
What I do now is basically what you're doing with one modification. Cut the dome shape with the girdle corner nice and sharp on the initial shaping pass. That helps me judge that the dome height is even and helps prevent grinding the corners down too much (which I also tend to do, haha). But then, I grind the sharp girdle corner off before moving on from initial shaping.
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Post by toiv0 on Jan 3, 2019 13:27:47 GMT -5
Hi Julie. You're getting really good comments on here. I'd like to exapand on what Opalrexia said "almost always gradual, sloping/curved sides with really no definite girdle or "break" where the dome starts." I TOTALLY agree, as an intermediate silversmith. Before I took up silversmithing, I cut my cabs with girdles with nice sharp corners like a lot of folks on here. They look very nice, and show off how even your cab is. But when I started learning silversmithing and tried to bezel set those stones, I found that the sharp girdle corner is a TOTAL PAIN IN THE YOU-KNOW-WHAT if you're going to bezel set. Like, basically impossible to do well without significant additional (difficult to get right) steps. I'd love to hear how pro silversmiths set stones with sharp girdles (maybe there's some secret I don't know?), but my feeling is that a sharp girdle corner makes a cab a "no-buy-cab" or (if it's really nice, a "buy-it-and-recut-it" stone). I just went and looked at the cabs I have purchased (mostly at the Tucson show, of materials too fancy for me to cut) - none have a girdle line visible. If you're just going to sell, and not set the stones yourself, you might be fine doing it this way. Wire wrappers seem to like the sharp corner, as it provides a better grip for the wires apparently (don't know exactly). And I wonder if most of the Etsy buyers might be wire wrappers? But if you want to set them yourself, I'd advise rounding over that girdle line more than you're doing. What I do now is basically what you're doing with one modification. Cut the dome shape with the girdle corner nice and sharp on the initial shaping pass. That helps me judge that the dome height is even and helps prevent grinding the corners down too much (which I also tend to do, haha). But then, I grind the sharp girdle corner off before moving on from initial shaping. I agree with the no girdle, a smooth transition looks a lot cleaner. With a girdle you have to either raise or lower a stone or make your own bezel wire. The smooth looks a whole lot neater which most people like. Most of my smithing looks like its done in a third world country , so an uneven stone or the bezel bent over the girdle roughly has its own place. That said it is easier without the girdle for setting at least for me.
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julieooly
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2018
Posts: 714
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Post by julieooly on Jan 3, 2019 13:45:15 GMT -5
Ok blue & toiv, thanks for the comments. So if I soften out the pretty girdle line it will be more advantageous to bezel setters but still fine for wire wrappers?
What about the 12.5 degree angle on the girdle? All my stones have straight girdles, do you also find the angle to be better suited to smithing?
Maybe I'll learn the angle technique and make both kinds, that couldn't hurt
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Post by Bluesky78987 on Jan 3, 2019 13:51:27 GMT -5
Ok blue & toiv, thanks for the comments. So if I soften out the pretty girdle line it will be more advantageous to bezel setters but still fine for wire wrappers? What about the 12.5 degree angle on the girdle? All my stones have straight girdles, do you also find the angle to be better suited to smithing? Maybe I'll learn the angle technique and make both kinds, that couldn't hurt You definitely need the angle on the girdle. That's what holds the stone into the bezel cup - the bezel "wire" (really it's a strip but it's called wire often) bends over that angled girdle face, that's what holds it in. You don't have to be super exact about what angle you use, but it is good to have it be the same angle all the way around (or the bezel looks funny when set). The tendancy will be to make too much of an angle at first, but you'll quickly get the hang of it. Trying to think of a visual analogy for you about the bezel mechanics . . . can't think of one right now though. Definitely do the angle on all your stones. That will be fine for wrappers and crucial for bezel setters. If you want to cater to wrappers too, maybe make some stones with the sharp girdle corner. Maybe rockjunquie can chime in on that, but I thought I heard somebody say once that wrappers like that sharp corner to anchor their wires on.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 3, 2019 14:52:02 GMT -5
Ok blue & toiv, thanks for the comments. So if I soften out the pretty girdle line it will be more advantageous to bezel setters but still fine for wire wrappers? What about the 12.5 degree angle on the girdle? All my stones have straight girdles, do you also find the angle to be better suited to smithing? Maybe I'll learn the angle technique and make both kinds, that couldn't hurt You definitely need the angle on the girdle. That's what holds the stone into the bezel cup - the bezel "wire" (really it's a strip but it's called wire often) bends over that angled girdle face, that's what holds it in. You don't have to be super exact about what angle you use, but it is good to have it be the same angle all the way around (or the bezel looks funny when set). The tendancy will be to make too much of an angle at first, but you'll quickly get the hang of it. Trying to think of a visual analogy for you about the bezel mechanics . . . can't think of one right now though. Definitely do the angle on all your stones. That will be fine for wrappers and crucial for bezel setters. If you want to cater to wrappers too, maybe make some stones with the sharp girdle corner. Maybe rockjunquie can chime in on that, but I thought I heard somebody say once that wrappers like that sharp corner to anchor their wires on. Personally, I don't care about the angle either way. As for the points, I don't think they help a wire wrapper, it's just easier for them versus bezel setters. Again, I'll take both. When I did some silversmithing, I didn't have problems with points, but I didn't do very much and there was one project that I gave up on because I couldn't the bezel wire right- for whatever reason. I put the angle on the girdle because both types of jewelers can use it. But, I didn't start out that way.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Jan 3, 2019 15:08:54 GMT -5
rockjunquie Bluesky78987I have never purchased or shopped for cabs. Is it common practice for sellers to be descriptive about the height and angle of the girdle in their listings? Chuck
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 3, 2019 15:11:41 GMT -5
rockjunquie Bluesky78987 I have never purchased or shopped for cabs. Is it common practice for sellers to be descriptive about the height and angle of the girdle in their listings? Chuck Most will say they cab with a girdle if they do. I measure the height of the girdle, but I don't know if it is common. They usually measure the dome height.
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Fossilman
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Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,681
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Post by Fossilman on Jan 3, 2019 15:15:21 GMT -5
Like those Cabtopia templates also, I have many... I don't go by measurements or girths, etc... I just cab what I see and leave it at that... Having fun and enjoying the hobby is what I enjoy.. Good luck...
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Jan 3, 2019 15:38:35 GMT -5
For what it is worth here is a quick cad drawing I just made to try to explain why we need the 12 degree angle for silversmithing. The cab is drawn in red and the soldered bezel in purple. After the bezel cup is soldered the stone is placed into it and then the bezel gets pushed against the stone all the way around which encapsulates the stone. I like to have a small amount of bezel protruding above the girdle so I can blend it over the cab a little bit. Chuck
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julieooly
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2018
Posts: 714
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Post by julieooly on Jan 3, 2019 15:57:11 GMT -5
Pretty lace! Ok and just one final clarification: Chuck, on your cad drawing I see the bezel and the domed stone with the girdle angle tilting outward. Do you also need the little bezel cut on the bottom edge for solder & to reduce chipping? So the stone looks like \_______________/ at the very base of the cab?
With that answer and maybe some comments from wrappers on the straight edge being easier I think this topic has been solved for me! Ya'll are amazing!
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julieooly
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2018
Posts: 714
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Post by julieooly on Jan 3, 2019 15:59:35 GMT -5
Oh yeah! and one more thing... Where can I get the cab rest? Diamond Pacific has one that is shown with their machines and I've written to them to see if they have one that will work on my 6" CabKing. I didn't see any others, does anyone have any ideas here?
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Jan 3, 2019 16:23:21 GMT -5
Pretty lace! Ok and just one final clarification: Chuck, on your cad drawing I see the bezel and the domed stone with the girdle angle tilting outward. Do you also need the little bezel cut on the bottom edge for solder & to reduce chipping? So the stone looks like \_______________/ at the very base of the cab? With that answer and maybe some comments from wrappers on the straight edge being easier I think this topic has been solved for me! Ya'll are amazing! Yes I always slightly chamfer the backs of all my cabs regardless of wrapping or setting. As far as the angled girdle with wrapping goes I just prefer the straight girdle because I pull my wires really tight to the outside edge of the stones. With a really high gloss angled girdle the stone wants to pop out as I try to pinch the wires around it. That is just my personal experience based on my style of wrapping. Forgotten to mention groove wrapping. For my groove wraps I would not be able to purchase the cabs. I want a sold 3+ mm of girdle and want the girdle at 90 degrees. Chuck
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Post by lpl on Jan 3, 2019 16:45:32 GMT -5
Like those Cabtopia templates also, I have many... I don't go by measurements or girths, etc... I just cab what I see and leave it at that... Having fun and enjoying the hobby is what I enjoy.. Good luck... So much truth here Fossil!
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