jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 1, 2019 10:20:28 GMT -5
This is too clean John. Please thicken with old slurry or clay/cat litter. Pepto-bismal thickness is a great consistency. Guessing you are not getting abrasive distribution and wasting time spinning your rocks.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 1, 2019 10:35:22 GMT -5
Self collected Rio's about this size is what I used for big rock media in 6 pound barrel, 1 to 2 pound big rock. 70% barrel fill. Terrible photo but you can see the well distributed SiC 30 particles stuck to rocks by Pepto-Bismal consistency. This slurry created in 30 minutes after a complete clean out. In other words instant slurry created by adding (clay in my case) a thickener. Just thick enough so that a flatter shaped rock will stick to another flatter shaped rock enough for gravity not to pull them apart when held in air. Sticky or suction creating slurry, scientific term is cohesive forces which greatly increase grinding force also when rolling 24/7.
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Post by johnw on Feb 2, 2019 0:23:33 GMT -5
jamesp .... I went to check the slurry and it was just not having any. I changed the barrel to a one gallon, added more grit, agates and media, one pound of jasper sea fossil plus one teaspoon of Covington's Rock Miser. It's now tumbling again and sounds ok. I believe there was just not enough room for the tumbling process to happen in the half gallon barrel and the EC got stuck. Hope it does not happen again. We'll see. BTW I did not thank you for the images of the slurry thicknes, so I do now. "Thank You." Cheers, johnw
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 2, 2019 5:41:27 GMT -5
jamesp .... I went to check the slurry and it was just not having any. I changed the barrel to a one gallon, added more grit, agates and media, one pound of jasper sea fossil plus one teaspoon of Covington's Rock Miser. It's now tumbling again and sounds ok. I believe there was just not enough room for the tumbling process to happen in the half gallon barrel and the EC got stuck. Hope it does not happen again. We'll see. BTW I did not thank you for the images of the slurry thicknes, so I do now. "Thank You." Cheers, johnw The barrel size I was using was had about an 8 pound capacity at 75% fill and was best run with a 1.5 pound longer rock or a 2 pound rounder rock so I get your conundrum with jamming. The other size limitation was the ~3.5 inch X 10 inch hopper opening to the Vibrasonic vibe for polishing the big rock. Amazingly fast finish in 3 to 4 days using AO 220 and AO polish. Something else you might be interested in, I welded up a shorter but wider hopper to fit the Vibrasonic base that has a 4.5 inch X 8 inch hopper opening for polishing yet bigger big rocks. This new hopper was also the one that successfully polished glass so I quit doing big rocks and about all rocks for that matter. But the Vibrasonic also shakes a 35 pound hopper that I could not find cheap and used. The 35 pound hopper would be the ultimate 'bigger' big rock finisher with its large opening(still shopping). Not to mention the output from your 65 pound rotary.
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Post by johnw on Feb 2, 2019 12:12:10 GMT -5
jamesp .... I went to check the slurry and it was just not having any. I changed the barrel to a one gallon, added more grit, agates and media, one pound of jasper sea fossil plus one teaspoon of Covington's Rock Miser. It's now tumbling again and sounds ok. I believe there was just not enough room for the tumbling process to happen in the half gallon barrel and the EC got stuck. Hope it does not happen again. We'll see. BTW I did not thank you for the images of the slurry thicknes, so I do now. "Thank You." Cheers, johnw The barrel size I was using was had about an 8 pound capacity at 75% fill and was best run with a 1.5 pound longer rock or a 2 pound rounder rock so I get your conundrum with jamming. The other size limitation was the ~3.5 inch X 10 inch hopper opening to the Vibrasonic vibe for polishing the big rock. Amazingly fast finish in 3 to 4 days using AO 220 and AO polish. Something else you might be interested in, I welded up a shorter but wider hopper to fit the Vibrasonic base that has a 4.5 inch X 8 inch hopper opening for polishing yet bigger big rocks. This new hopper was also the one that successfully polished glass so I quit doing big rocks and about all rocks for that matter. But the Vibrasonic also shakes a 35 pound hopper that I could not find cheap and used. The 35 pound hopper would be the ultimate 'bigger' big rock finisher with its large opening(still shopping). Not to mention the output from your 65 pound rotary. Hi jamesp . wow, good looking machines. The issue becomes the noise, the vibe is just too noisy for me in my "can't swing a cat in it" work area. I only vibe I have is a Lot-o which I sound deadened considerably and that's it. I traded my UV-18 back to the Rock Shed when I did a deal on the 65T. I can live with the time difference now that I am dedicated to Diamond Pacific. I think I may have mentioned this before. Anyway I do thank you for the details. BTW, the Covington turns at 45 revs per minute. One more point, and I appreciate if everyone reading this doesn't laugh. Yesterday when adding Old Miser to the mix, well, dumbo here did not read the instructions and added one pound of the stuff and got an instant brick. I was supposed to add two tea spoons. Duh, lesson learned, it took me one hour to clean it out. This is what you get when you don't read instructions. I wanted slurry thickening and I got it, big time. I can laugh now, but yesterday I was, well, err, I will leave you to fill in the blanks..... Cheers, johnw
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Post by Rockoonz on Feb 2, 2019 12:54:30 GMT -5
My understanding of tumbling is pretty limited, Elizabeth does that, I do lapidary. My gut, and a fair understanding of physics tells me that if a single rock in a tumbler is larger than about 1/3 of the diameter of the tumbler barrel you're not going to get much, if any, vigorous tumbling action out of it. That's why I grabbed a 40 lb barrel when I had the chance, maybe the price was a factor too.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 2, 2019 13:53:04 GMT -5
Looks like it does not take much Covington Miser to make dirt clods and wow. Super absorbent. You could have added water and let it roll for an hour or two. Pour out some of the mud and repeat.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 2, 2019 13:56:52 GMT -5
My understanding of tumbling is pretty limited, Elizabeth does that, I do lapidary. My gut, and a fair understanding of physics tells me that if a single rock in a tumbler is larger than about 1/3 of the diameter of the tumbler barrel you're not going to get much, if any, vigorous tumbling action out of it. That's why I grabbed a 40 lb barrel when I had the chance, maybe the price was a factor too. One rock at about 1/2 the barrel diameter with smaller rocks at +/-1/6 the barrel diameter rolling at high rotation speed was the path I took Rockoonz.
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Post by Rockoonz on Feb 2, 2019 14:43:34 GMT -5
My understanding of tumbling is pretty limited, Elizabeth does that, I do lapidary. My gut, and a fair understanding of physics tells me that if a single rock in a tumbler is larger than about 1/3 of the diameter of the tumbler barrel you're not going to get much, if any, vigorous tumbling action out of it. That's why I grabbed a 40 lb barrel when I had the chance, maybe the price was a factor too. One rock at about 1/2 the barrel diameter with smaller rocks at +/-1/6 the barrel diameter rolling at high rotation speed was the path I took Rockoonz. Does the barrel wall factor in? We only use the rubber lined metal hexagon shaped barrels nowadays. We have a few of the various sized rubber ones but these seem to work the best for us. Again, Elizabeth is the tumbler in this household, I am only trusted to move the big barrels around when they're full...
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Post by johnw on Feb 2, 2019 17:19:04 GMT -5
Looks like it does not take much Covington Miser to make dirt clods and wow. Super absorbent. You could have added water and let it roll for an hour or two. Pour out some of the mud and repeat. jamesp.... When I put the Old Miser into the barrel there was about two inches of water showing. I put the lid on and started to tumble. No tumbling noise, nothing, picked the barrel up and shook it, no noise, popped the lid and voila all the moisture had gone. Tried to put water in, and zooop, gone in a flash. I had a brick, it was like a rock. Scraping it out was a treat that I never want to experience again. This is what it looked like before I tossed it down the sewer with the exception of the EC chunk..... Image to follow. To all newbies and old rockers, always read the instructions. DUH. All the cookers over at The Big Crazy's Pastry Shop are having a lot of sport with my stupidity. Lesson learned, no face. Cheers, johnw
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Post by HankRocks on Feb 2, 2019 17:53:35 GMT -5
Looks like it does not take much Covington Miser to make dirt clods and wow. Super absorbent. You could have added water and let it roll for an hour or two. Pour out some of the mud and repeat. jamesp .... When I put the Old Miser into the barrel there was about two inches of water showing. I put the lid on and started to tumble. No tumbling noise, nothing, picked the barrel up and shook it, no noise, popped the lid and voila all the moisture had gone. Tried to put water in, and zooop, gone in a flash. I had a brick, it was like a rock. Scraping it out was a treat that I never want to experience again. This is what it looked like before I tossed it down the sewer with the exception of the EC chunk..... Image to follow. To all newbies and old rockers, always read the instructions. DUH. All the cookers over at The Big Crazy's Pastry Shop are having a lot of sport with my stupidity. Lesson learned, no face. Cheers, johnw As I used to tell my kids, it's a "Character Builder"!!
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 3, 2019 6:31:49 GMT -5
One rock at about 1/2 the barrel diameter with smaller rocks at +/-1/6 the barrel diameter rolling at high rotation speed was the path I took Rockoonz. Does the barrel wall factor in? We only use the rubber lined metal hexagon shaped barrels nowadays. We have a few of the various sized rubber ones but these seem to work the best for us. Again, Elizabeth is the tumbler in this household, I am only trusted to move the big barrels around when they're full... The wall does not seem to factor in much Lee. Even when using steel. The rocks hit an accumulated pile of rocks at the bottom of their fall, not so much the barrel wall.(as viewed from clear barrel cap) The grind and impacts occur at upper layer along the length of the 'avalanche' within.(again as viewed from a clear cap) The controlling factor in a rotary is the fill %. Half full is by far more violent and can surface fracture rocks with larger or delicate rocks. Half full creates maximum tumble distance(avalanche) across full diameter. 85% full is gentle. Reduces the rock fall distance. Greater than 85% begins to retard the tumbling effect. 70 to 75% is a good fill level for tougher agates. 85% for softer like obsidian. Oddly, hex barrels are gentler than round and can be run at higher speeds. Hex barrels constantly ramp rocks down and round barrels more apt to dump rocks down. Like rolling a refrigerator down a flat ramp out of a truck verses a curved downward ramp. Another factor is slurry thickness and tackiness in a rotary. Increasing viscosity and tackiness is a huge factor. Tackiness simply increases grind force. Slurry is usually well mixed in a rotary and therefore homogenous throughout. Media is vulnerable to accumulating in sections of the rotary and not protecting target rocks. Slurry is the safest way to protect delicate rocks IF it's viscosity is maintained. If not, more delicate rocks can get damaged in a hurry. Clay is basically Mother Nature's slurry. Rock tumbling slurry is created about the same way clay is created. Felspar based clay(kaolin) has long been recognized as the cos de gras's of slurry and suspension agents. It creates a dense well lubricated slurry that will assist floating heavy particles like silicon carbide abrasives. Oddly it is by composition +30% aluminum oxide. It is made up of flat platelets(delaminated felspar plates) that increases suspension ability. About all paint uses kaolin to suspend it's ink/coloring agent. Cosmetics, color magazine coatings etc. same game. kaolin up close before being disturbed say in a tumbler, basically felspar crystal platelets. As the platelets get crushed it loses it's ability to suspend:
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 3, 2019 7:14:12 GMT -5
As HankRocks mentioned, lesson learned. It appears you arrived at 'full concretion'. Been there done that when experimenting with clay slurry. Clay with 60 to 70% sand content could be mixed into the rotary in larger doses. Clay with zero % sand content had to be used in much smaller doses. Iron rich suspended kaolin clay precipitated out of muddy water from a dried up silt catchment pond = 100% clay with no sand. Kaolin clay silt carried by flowing water from rain fall is a huge problem in this area. These dried plates being collected for fine tumbling slurry. In larger silt catchment ponds these dried pure clay plates are often 5' X 5' and 6 inches to 12 inches thick. Because kaolin suspends so well in water and is carried to rivers and lakes by the tons creating massive silting problems. A concrete boat ramp after one heavy rain and ensuing flood left 2 inches of silt(Chattahoochee River) = el primo tumbler slurry additive. Clay silt is considered the #1 pollutant in the Chattahoochee River and due to silt it is +/-#5 most polluted river in US. There are county owned bulldozers parked at these boat ramps to remove the silt after every high river event. DO NOT BACK TRUCK DOWN THIS RAMP
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Post by johnw on Feb 3, 2019 12:54:51 GMT -5
WOW, I am completely and literally gobsmacked and humbled at the response I am seeing after pulling off what has got to be the most dumbest thing imaginable, dumping one pound of Old Miser into a half gallon barrel. I do thank everyone sincerely and it proves once more why the RTH forum is the best place to be, with rock tumbling family helping less than skilled family members. Some background: I never used any slurry thickener before and decided to do so after I noticed with 46-70 grit it didn't do slurry too well, compared, to my experience with 60-90 grit. Okay, so I admit there were slight differences in rocks being tumbled at each time, being, a Big Crazy with lots of Bahia's with 60-90 versus Agatized Palm Root with ceramics and some small agates and then with agates replacing the ceramic with 46-70. I do have slurry in the big 65T barrel and its got everything plus the kitchen sink inside being the Big Crazy, 50 pounds of Bahia's, ceramics, Mookaite, and some Jaspers and I am using 45-70 grit. Image of the slurry mix follow. I have used the correct amount of Old Miser, small agate and the EC2 in the Covington 1 gallon and its been running for almost 24 hours. I will pop the lid and see what it look like later this afternoon and report back. Thanks again everyone, I am humbled. Cheers, johnw 65T had slurry but seemed a bit weak so put more Old Miser in plus some more agates and media as fill. The barrel contenets in this image are without the BC2 bulk and about ten pounds of Bahia's. Covington 1 gallon slurry. seems ok., will revisit in one week. Cheers, johnw
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Post by johnw on Feb 6, 2019 18:35:47 GMT -5
Okay, so it's four days full time running and I wanted to see how we are doing and in a word: nailed. The slurry mix is the right consistency and we are rumbling, literally and figuratively, the sound is absolute music. So moving forward it will be referred to as Eye Candy Tumble-Progress. I will still use this thread for new Eye Candy images, but it's focus will be on the processing and I welcome everyone to join in the journey and comment as to how we can improve as we move forward. After four days, here are some images: These are all wet. This is the bottom of the stone and will be the most difficult to clean up. Okay, that's it for now.............. Thanks for looking......TBC....Cheers,johnw Follow-up. My understanding the MOHS hardness is rated at 6.5-7.5 for Palm Root Agate, does that sound right?
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Post by miket on Feb 6, 2019 18:51:16 GMT -5
Just four days? Fantastic. Thanks for the progress report!
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Post by johnw on Feb 6, 2019 20:23:29 GMT -5
Just four days? Fantastic. Thanks for the progress report! miket .... Four days, give or take. I am not counting the few days of trying to get the slurry straight or the barrel change as contributing to any meaningful tumbling removal. That said, I am pleased with how it's turning out. I added one pound of 46-70 grit today plus some water then buttoned it up. Will revisit in seven days. My plan is to stick with the Covington all the way thru polish. Cheers, johnw
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RWA3006
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Post by RWA3006 on Feb 6, 2019 22:01:41 GMT -5
Interesting thread. Appreciate everyone's comments.
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Post by johnw on Feb 8, 2019 2:06:58 GMT -5
From time to time I will add Eye Candy to the backlog of tumbling projects. Here is the latest eye popper, EC-6. Weight 2#-4oz. Dims 4"x4"x3.5" Cheers, johnw Modern Art or Eye Candy? An exact lift off the center of the above image. Images by Linda and me.
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