Tommy
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Post by Tommy on Apr 8, 2019 11:47:38 GMT -5
First the back story - this load started in 120/200 grit in my old 10 lb Gemstone vibe back around June 2018. At that point I was fighting to keep the tumbler alive and experiencing several problems all at once including a complete break in the thick plastic plate the bowl sits on, as well as a stripped threaded shaft and broken bowl top which led to difficulty keeping the bowl from spinning. The bowl drain plug also decided it would no longer stay in the hole and had to be JB Welded in place. In fits and starts between repairs the load ran for approximately 72 hours before I gave up because I couldn't keep the bowl from spinning. From there it sat for a couple of months and became a solid block until I had the energy to clean the bowl and put the load away in a jug marked "ready for 400." Fast forward to this year and my purchase of my first Lot-O tumbler. In hind sight I should have studied to find the successful Lot-O recipes now posted in this area and started over from scratch but I did feel the load had spent enough time in 120/200 and decided to move forward with the grits I have on hand. With high hopes I split the original load in half and started it in the Lot-O with a tablespoon of 400 sic for 48 hours, cleaned out and followed by 48 hours in 600 sic. From there I cleaned everything thoroughly and ran for 24 hours in Borax, cleaned again and have now had it running for 36 hours in AO polish with Borax. I started pulling some pieces out yesterday and this morning and the results are very disappointing. Some of the agate pieces are very ... dull and almost patchy dirty. Before I pull the plug and start over from scratch - what you would guys do with this? I have recently purchased 600 AO and 1000 AO and I'm prepared to follow the recipe now but does anyone think there a repair point I should roll back to and try again with this bad luck load?
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Apr 8, 2019 12:13:40 GMT -5
First photo looks a bit like frosting. That will happen on large flat surfaces when not enough ceramics are in the batch. Second photo looks like a mixed hardness rock with the hard parts shiny and soft parts not. No cure for that. Third photo does not look too bad. what type of polish were they in for the 36 hr run? How much ceramic was in the load? Now that I look back it looks like all three surfaces you took pictures of are flats. Those are the hardest things to tumble polish. The agate halves I posted yesterday all have a flat face. The load was probably 80 percent ceramic filler. The rocks in the this post are all that I had in the entire batch. The rest was ceramic forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/87068/agate-halves-4-7?page=1&scrollTo=1046783I would not panic until you have tried a more tried and true method from scratch. Chuck
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Tommy
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Post by Tommy on Apr 8, 2019 14:13:36 GMT -5
Thanks Chuck - the first photo is a piece of Texas Springs pink limbcast agate which should have a mirror shine in my experience. The mixed hardness stone is mescalero "blue dream" jasper and it's bloody hard throughout and takes an excellent (variable) polish but this piece is just as dull as can be. I might drill and sell a few pieces in the load but mostly it's for giveaways with my cabochon sales and I'm embarrassed at how "frosted" the surfaces are. Over the last five years or so I've ran probably five mixed loads of flats (jaspers and agates) from start to finish in the old Gemstone vibe and honestly I've achieved WAY better results than this while sticking to variations of the same recipe as this (SiC 120/200, 400, 600, AO polish). In fact I would say this is my worst load of flats to date which makes me wonder if maybe it was caused by the low efficiency of the 120/200 in the old tumbler as it was breaking down.
I followed earlier advice offered here and filled the bowl about half way with flats and the rest of the way with ceramic media. The load has been in Rockshed AO polish for 36 hours now and is still running. I guess I'm trying to figure out if I should let it run for a few more days, or step back and do a light cleanout then step through the new AO-600 and AO-1000 that just arrived yesterday, or abort the mission and start over from scratch.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Apr 8, 2019 14:38:51 GMT -5
I have no experience with 600 SC but with 500 A/O I would have expected way better then what you are showing in those photos. Unfortunately I do not think A/O polish is going to help but much.
Those agates in that last link I sent went straight from the saw into the lot-o starting in 120/220 S/C for 24 hours, 500 A/O for 96 hrs then A/O polish for 48 hours. 7 days from saw to sale. I am trying another batch of those same agates this week with less ceramics. I'll keep you posted. There is a fine line with flats. If you cross the line you get frosting and start over at 120/220 again.
Chuck
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Tommy
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Member since January 2013
Posts: 12,595
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Post by Tommy on Apr 8, 2019 14:47:02 GMT -5
There is a fine line with flats. If you cross the line you get frosting and start over at 120/220 again. Thanks Chuck - what is this "line" you are referring to - is it based on time spent on each step or too little ceramic media used? I have a tendency to get carried away with how much grit I add - does that ever have an adverse effect other than gumming up and maybe slowing down the action?
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Apr 8, 2019 18:15:46 GMT -5
There is a fine line with flats. If you cross the line you get frosting and start over at 120/220 again. Thanks Chuck - what is this "line" you are referring to - is it based on time spent on each step or too little ceramic media used? I have a tendency to get carried away with how much grit I add - does that ever have an adverse effect other than gumming up and maybe slowing down the action? My grit amounts have been consistent since day one so I am no help on how changing amounts affects things. My 120/220 is always spot on 2 tablespoons but the rest of my stages are a heavy 1/2 teaspoon. 120/220 is the only stage where the slurry becomes an issue. I still spray a few squirts of water in the other stages after 12-24 hours but those never come to a crawl. The amount of smalls or ceramics are key. Seems like every time I get greedy and try to run too many rocks with flats I end up starting over. If I just have a couple rocks with flats in an otherwise normal load that is fine but when the entire load is flats like mini-slabs, cabs or agate halves that's when I start using more like 75% filler. Chuck
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Post by grumpybill on Apr 9, 2019 5:15:43 GMT -5
I've run a lot of flats through my Lot-O and have never gotten bruising. Not even with glass or obsidian. (Did get some chipping on the clear quartz nuggets I added to my first/experimental load due to too few smalls.)
I don't know if any of this will help, coming from a non-pro, but here are my thoughts: I would start over at 120 the stones in your photos. I wonder if QC on the Lot-O is slipping? Your machine seems to be too aggressive and aDave's not active enough. After I load the stones (mixed sizes) into the bowl, I start the critter running before adding grit and sprinkle in as many very small stones (most smaller than a pea) as will fit to fill every nook and cranny. In addition to "cushioning", the extra weight damps the action a bit. I keep the slurry wetter than most people here seem to. I make sure the flats are sliding across each other without sticking. I've been using up a stockpile of 600SiC. It requires more attention than 500AO does, but gives the same results in the same amount of time. With hard stones I see no difference in the finish between doing a 1000AO stage vs an extended run of 500AO (or 600 SiC) before polish. With soft stones/glass/sea shells it seems to help if I shorten the 500/600 run and do a 1000 stage.
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Tommy
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Member since January 2013
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Post by Tommy on Apr 9, 2019 9:15:18 GMT -5
Thank you for the input Bill. I don't have enough experience to know if this is actually bruising or not - it just appears as a dirty haze almost as if the surfaces is still abraded from the lower grits - kind of like if I was making an agate cab and I tried to jump from 280 grit to 3000. Parts would look good like around the edges but the surfaces would look like crap. Overall though this tumbler seems a lot less aggressive than my 10lb Gemstone vibe and at least one of the plume agates in the load has surprisingly little undercutting. I keep checking the machine and wishing things were moving a bit more but not knowing what Lot-O 'normal' looks like yet. My old vibe used to get a very distinctive over the outside and down the middle movement while slowly rotating circular around the bowl.
Anyway, this batch has actually been running in AO polish for three days now so I've decided to pull it and start a new batch from scratch. I think once I look at the totality of the load there might be plenty of pieces that are just fine to use as giveaways.
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Post by orrum on Apr 11, 2019 7:16:46 GMT -5
Tommy change your recipe to Chucks. A half teaspoon of grit is plenty. Don't run them except for with grit. When you are running just borax alone 24 hours is too long, I get problems ftom that. Check and see if your wooden dowel is in the right place, check for broken springs, they are hard to see. Get use to the right slurry consistency. Mmine move steady not fast in the Loto. I use half or more ceramics with some pea size glass. Hood luvk!
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