oldschoolrocker
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,540
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Post by oldschoolrocker on Jul 29, 2019 16:52:38 GMT -5
So I'm nearing the end of my first lot o batch and have run into a little problem, maybe.... Let em start with what I've done so far -
Mounted lot o on painted concrete block-4"x8"x16" which weighs approx 36lbs. Block sits on garage floor with hard foam mat(the interlocking type pieces for kids play areas) between block and floor. Stage 1 done in rotary Stage 2 -2TBL sic120/220 ran 24hrs, adding spritz of water when action slowed. Toward end of 24 hrs I suspected I added too much water as action didnt move much when adding water- rinsed and small amt of unused grit left in barrel. Recharged w 2TBL 120_220 and ran another 24 hrs. Added less water this time but still had unused grit left. This is when i we t back and watched jugglerguy video on tumbling shapes and realized I wasnt seeing same action in barrel. Grabbed standard cinderblock and placed lot-o and block on top of cinderblock and BOOM now I had good tumbling action. Stage 3 - 1TBL borax and 1/2 tea ao500 ran for 48hrs. Stage 4 -1 TBL borax and 1/2 tea ao1200. Ran 24 hrs- this Is where something didnt seem right. Within cpl hours the action slowed considerably, little water and helped for few hours, then little more and helped again. Went to bed and when woke up 7 hours later it had slowed again. Took out, scrubbed and rinsed and took some pics. So I'm wondering why the tumbling action seemed to be difficult to keep going? Similar to 120/220 stage. Did I use too much water from the onset, maybe movement or vibration between 2 concrete blocks stunting the tumbling action or something else alltogether. Stones generally look ok(to me) and only flaws I see are ones known about prior to starting in lot o, but dont know what to expect at this stage. Any help or input is much appreciated
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oldschoolrocker
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,540
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Post by oldschoolrocker on Jul 29, 2019 16:56:49 GMT -5
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oldschoolrocker
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,540
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Post by oldschoolrocker on Jul 29, 2019 16:58:04 GMT -5
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oldschoolrocker
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,540
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Post by oldschoolrocker on Jul 29, 2019 17:11:49 GMT -5
Oh and barrel was filled almost all way to top with mixed size ceramics and the small batch of stones shown In pic
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Post by aDave on Jul 29, 2019 17:48:51 GMT -5
Those turned out great.
FWIW, of all stages, it's the polish stage that I find the most difficult to keep moving. Like you, I've figured out what to do in the other stages, and I'm getting a better handle there as time goes on. Frankly, instead of just focusing on (lack of) movement and then adding water, I'm learning to watch dryness instead. Just focusing on lack of circulation had me over-watering at times, as I could literally end up pouring water out of the barrel.
As mentioned, the polish stage is where things get tough for me. But, I'm thinking it's not so much a water problem as it is a lack of friction to help move the rocks. I think it's this, as there are times I start my polish stage and material is barely moving. And yes, water had been properly dumped before starting. However, as soon as I start to add polish, material starts speeding up and circulates as I would expect. By the next morning, material is slowly moving again.
I used to worry about it, but as long as there is "some" circulation/movement, then polishing is occurring. The only time when I absolutely shut things down is when there is no circulation whatsoever and material is simply standing still, and sometimes that turns out to be less than the proscribed 48 hours.
There may be other variables such as how full the barrel is, or if I have enough ceramics, but I haven't been able to isolate anything else just yet. Hope this helps some.
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oldschoolrocker
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,540
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Post by oldschoolrocker on Jul 29, 2019 18:53:18 GMT -5
Those turned out great. FWIW, of all stages, it's the polish stage that I find the most difficult to keep moving. Like you, I've figured out what to do in the other stages, and I'm getting a better handle there as time goes on. Frankly, instead of just focusing on (lack of) movement and then adding water, I'm learning to watch dryness instead. Just focusing on lack of circulation had me over-watering at times, as I could literally end up pouring water out of the barrel. As mentioned, the polish stage is where things get tough for me. But, I'm thinking it's not so much a water problem as it is a lack of friction to help move the rocks. I think it's this, as there are times I start my polish stage and material is barely moving. And yes, water had been properly dumped before starting. However, as soon as I start to add polish, material starts speeding up and circulates as I would expect. By the next morning, material is slowly moving again. I used to worry about it, but as long as there is "some" circulation/movement, then polishing is occurring. The only time when I absolutely shut things down is when there is no circulation whatsoever and material is simply standing still, and sometimes that turns out to be less than the proscribed 48 hours. There may be other variables such as how full the barrel is, or if I have enough ceramics, but I haven't been able to isolate anything else just yet. Hope this helps some. Thanks aDave for the help! I assumed the opposite thinking that the material would move more freely as I progressed through the stages so when the movement slowed compared to previous stage I was concerned something was off. Knowing that now, I'm going to start the final polish stage! One more question if I may- assuming the initial load into lot o is almost all the way full w rocks and ceramics, if dont remove any stones from load do I need to worry about adding material as batch progresses through stages to make up for whats ground away? (assuming all rocks are around 7 hardness) thanks again for your help!
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Post by aDave on Jul 29, 2019 19:23:03 GMT -5
Those turned out great. FWIW, of all stages, it's the polish stage that I find the most difficult to keep moving. Like you, I've figured out what to do in the other stages, and I'm getting a better handle there as time goes on. Frankly, instead of just focusing on (lack of) movement and then adding water, I'm learning to watch dryness instead. Just focusing on lack of circulation had me over-watering at times, as I could literally end up pouring water out of the barrel. As mentioned, the polish stage is where things get tough for me. But, I'm thinking it's not so much a water problem as it is a lack of friction to help move the rocks. I think it's this, as there are times I start my polish stage and material is barely moving. And yes, water had been properly dumped before starting. However, as soon as I start to add polish, material starts speeding up and circulates as I would expect. By the next morning, material is slowly moving again. I used to worry about it, but as long as there is "some" circulation/movement, then polishing is occurring. The only time when I absolutely shut things down is when there is no circulation whatsoever and material is simply standing still, and sometimes that turns out to be less than the proscribed 48 hours. There may be other variables such as how full the barrel is, or if I have enough ceramics, but I haven't been able to isolate anything else just yet. Hope this helps some. Thanks aDave for the help! I assumed the opposite thinking that the material would move more freely as I progressed through the stages so when the movement slowed compared to previous stage I was concerned something was off. Knowing that now, I'm going to start the final polish stage! One more question if I may- assuming the initial load into lot o is almost all the way full w rocks and ceramics, if dont remove any stones from load do I need to worry about adding material as batch progresses through stages to make up for whats ground away? (assuming all rocks are around 7 hardness) thanks again for your help! Please don't take my findings as Gospel. Let's just say I have a hunch about it and work with things as I can. Just a note - I talked to the owner of the Lot-O company, as I was concerned about the placement of my dowel and how things were going in the first place. When I mentioned that Borax was added in some stages, his concern was about making things more "slippery." That somewhat goes along with what I may be seeing in my polish stage (lack of friction to move material). As far as barrel load, I may be about 1 1/4 to 2" below the opening when I start the stage. I've never measured. But, if you're filling to the bottom of the neck/hole, you may be over-filling. I never worry about adding more rocks to offset any material loss with a previous stage in the Lot-O. There simply isn't enough material removed from 120/220 to finish to worry about that. The biggest amount of material removal will take place at your coarse stage in rotary. Subsequent steps in the Lot-O don't make enough of difference in how much material may have been lost there. I seem to recall that someone did an experiment some time ago, and total loss from the 120/220 stage to polish may only have been 10% by weight. That's not enough for me to worry about. If you were totally concerned about it, I'd just add more ceramics, but I'm not sure that's necessary.
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Post by fernwood on Jul 31, 2019 3:27:04 GMT -5
Those have a great shine already. Can;t wait to see them after final polish.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jul 31, 2019 10:00:22 GMT -5
Your batch looks great, so I wouldn't be overly concerned. I'm pretty new, too. The final stage doesn't remove very much material, so there isn't a real slurry like in other stages. I think that's why the rotation and wetness look different. Like aDave said, I now pay more attention to how wet it is rather than how it's moving. It was making me crazy. But,the final stage just isn't as slippery with slurry. I think...
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oldschoolrocker
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,540
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Post by oldschoolrocker on Jul 31, 2019 11:33:51 GMT -5
Thanks fernwood! I'm looking forward to seeing the final results also. They will be done late tonight so hopefully get some pics up by tomorrow.
Thanks for the tip rockjunkie! Your and aDave's explanation makes sense and have been really paying attention to wetness during this polish stage and really havent had to add any water, minus the few drops that had collected on the inside of lid. Hoping for good results.
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oldschoolrocker
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,540
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Post by oldschoolrocker on Aug 1, 2019 0:38:47 GMT -5
So is the final result....actually planned to do a burnishing stage but in my excitement to see how these turned out I accidentally mixed the ceramics from this batch with other ceramics that have only gone through quick 60/90 stage. So will have to wait until next load is finished and will burnish them then. Overall I'm happy with the results- no unexpected flaws and daughter loves the rocks and is amazed how quick and easy this batch was done compared to our rotary tumbler.
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oldschoolrocker
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,540
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Post by oldschoolrocker on Aug 1, 2019 0:40:00 GMT -5
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Post by miket on Aug 1, 2019 12:42:30 GMT -5
Beautiful, great shine!
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oldschoolrocker
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,540
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Post by oldschoolrocker on Aug 1, 2019 13:41:20 GMT -5
Thanks miket! So daughter commented today that we need 3-4 more tumblers so we can turn out weekly batches...gotta love kids when they have no concept of money.
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,423
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Post by Wooferhound on Aug 2, 2019 16:56:28 GMT -5
And weekly batches adds up to A Lot Of Rocks.
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