vance71975
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since September 2022
Posts: 760
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Post by vance71975 on Sept 18, 2022 20:01:31 GMT -5
How much Loss in Size is Normal when tumbling rocks? Either by weight or Diminsions, Like how much should be expected and how much would make you say wait something is wrong here?
Example for easy of math, If I tumble a rock that weights 16oz How much would it be expected to weigh when done?
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lordsorril
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since April 2020
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Post by lordsorril on Sept 18, 2022 21:05:47 GMT -5
Depends on the type of rock and how it was prepped. Some people will saw and grind out imperfections on the stones prior to tumble--this vastly decreases the amount of mass lost, but, costs some up front. Imperfections can be exposed during the tumbling process and those will cost more time/grit/mass. If I have to take off more than 30% of the mass due to an obvious imperfection then I start kicking myself for not splitting the rock and having two pieces instead of one greatly reduced. In the end: It is up to you. Some people don't mind imperfections, and some people can't stand them. Unless you are trying to make money: The main goal is to have fun!
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vance71975
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since September 2022
Posts: 760
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Post by vance71975 on Sept 18, 2022 21:19:26 GMT -5
Depends on the type of rock and how it was prepped. Some people will saw and grind out imperfections on the stones prior to tumble--this vastly decreases the amount of mass lost, but, costs some up front. Imperfections can be exposed during the tumbling process and those will cost more time/grit/mass. If I have to take off more than 30% of the mass due to an obvious imperfection then I start kicking myself for not splitting the rock and having two pieces instead of one greatly reduced. In the end: It is up to you. Some people don't mind imperfections, and some people can't stand them. Unless you are trying to make money: The main goal is to have fun! More concered with How do I tell if I am over grinding? Like if I start with 16oz and end with 4oz I am gonna feel like I did something way way wrong. On some stuff, I will be going for perfect, and On those I expect to lose more volume. But I am also doing stuff for a Jewerly maker who wants natural features left but mostly smooth and shiny. So I guess what I am asking is what is the Average amount of lost size/weight? Like if I start at 16oz should I be good at 12oz pending no deep flaws or should I be down to 8 oz again pending no obivious deep pits, cracks, holes, or flaws? I am havin a blast regardless, but would still like an Average loss, like 1/4, 1/8, 1/2, 1/16, etc so I have a rough ball park on where to say ok I didnt over cut or DAMN I lost way too much size.
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howgneiss
starting to shine!
Member since May 2022
Posts: 25
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Post by howgneiss on Sept 18, 2022 21:26:09 GMT -5
Maybe someone else could give you a more in depth response, but my first thought is that the amount of material lost is entirely dependant on how long you keep it in rough and how picky you are about its flaws and shape. If you're worried about your rocks being reduced in size too much then check the barrel more often (you don't have to do a complete clean out, just open the barrel and spray the rocks with a spray bottle to see them and then make sure you clean the seal by spraying it and drying it and making sure there's no grit or anything before sealing the barrel to prevent any leaks). If you think not enough is happening to your rocks when you do your change outs, check and see if the grit is completely used up. If it is used up, and if it's the right grit, then it has done its job the best it can, and the only ways to grind faster would be to play with the consistency of your slurry or to use a bigger tumbler or to occasionally open the barrel and add fresh grit until the slurry ends up too thick. If there's leftover grit when you do your clean outs then you probably need to fill the barrel less to get the proper tumbling motion, or make sure you have enough small rocks or ceramic to really get the grit where it needs to be. I'm not super crazy experienced though like many of the users here, so my response will probably get one-upped pretty quick
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vance71975
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since September 2022
Posts: 760
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Post by vance71975 on Sept 18, 2022 22:08:47 GMT -5
Maybe someone else could give you a more in depth response, but my first thought is that the amount of material lost is entirely dependant on how long you keep it in rough and how picky you are about its flaws and shape. If you're worried about your rocks being reduced in size too much then check the barrel more often (you don't have to do a complete clean out, just open the barrel and spray the rocks with a spray bottle to see them and then make sure you clean the seal by spraying it and drying it and making sure there's no grit or anything before sealing the barrel to prevent any leaks). If you think not enough is happening to your rocks when you do your change outs, check and see if the grit is completely used up. If it is used up, and if it's the right grit, then it has done its job the best it can, and the only ways to grind faster would be to play with the consistency of your slurry or to use a bigger tumbler or to occasionally open the barrel and add fresh grit until the slurry ends up too thick. If there's leftover grit when you do your clean outs then you probably need to fill the barrel less to get the proper tumbling motion, or make sure you have enough small rocks or ceramic to really get the grit where it needs to be. I'm not super crazy experienced though like many of the users here, so my response will probably get one-upped pretty quick Thanks man! I check my barrel about every 2 or 3 days, and Normally I add a teaspoon more grit when I check just in case I lose some because I do have a bucket I drain my rocks over, then a seperate bucket where I rinse them off and check them, when I put them back I dump my slurry back in so that im not starting over with thin water and grit. So far seems to be working well, I just kinda was curious what the "average normal mass loss" was.
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pebblesky
fully equipped rock polisher
Placed another order in rockshed. Happy 2024 everyone!
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,391
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Post by pebblesky on Sept 18, 2022 22:13:11 GMT -5
Depends on the type of rock and how it was prepped. Some people will saw and grind out imperfections on the stones prior to tumble--this vastly decreases the amount of mass lost, but, costs some up front. Imperfections can be exposed during the tumbling process and those will cost more time/grit/mass. If I have to take off more than 30% of the mass due to an obvious imperfection then I start kicking myself for not splitting the rock and having two pieces instead of one greatly reduced. In the end: It is up to you. Some people don't mind imperfections, and some people can't stand them. Unless you are trying to make money: The main goal is to have fun! More concered with How do I tell if I am over grinding? Like if I start with 16oz and end with 4oz I am gonna feel like I did something way way wrong. On some stuff, I will be going for perfect, and On those I expect to lose more volume. But I am also doing stuff for a Jewerly maker who wants natural features left but mostly smooth and shiny. So I guess what I am asking is what is the Average amount of lost size/weight? Like if I start at 16oz should I be good at 12oz pending no deep flaws or should I be down to 8 oz again pending no obivious deep pits, cracks, holes, or flaws? I am havin a blast regardless, but would still like an Average loss, like 1/4, 1/8, 1/2, 1/16, etc so I have a rough ball park on where to say ok I didnt over cut or DAMN I lost way too much size. There definitely is an average amount of lost size/weight of all the rocks humans have tumbled, but nobody recorded that and nobody knew the number. What matters at the end is the rock itself and your goal. I don't believe there is a magic number that would work for every cases. That said, there are individuals who keep the record of rock weight losses from time for time. I once came across a series of blog posts (from a New Zealand rock tumbler) that had record about the rocks weight losses for various stages. He also posted a lot of before and after pictures. I found these blog posts very informative and are a treat to my eyes. Hope you enjoy the read too: tumblestoneblog.wordpress.com/2017/11/27/the-seven-stages-in-tumble-polishing-stones-stage-two-100-grit-tumble-15-25-november-2017/tumblestoneblog.wordpress.com/2017/12/13/the-seven-stages-in-tumble-polishing-stones-the-stones-after-100-grit-and-their-inspection-and-sorting-before-stage-three/tumblestoneblog.wordpress.com/2018/02/02/the-seven-stages-in-tumble-polishing-stones-stage-three-220-grit-tumble-4-13-december-2017/tumblestoneblog.wordpress.com/2018/03/28/the-seven-stages-in-tumble-polishing-stones-stage-four-320-grit-tumble-10-20-march-2018/tumblestoneblog.wordpress.com/2018/08/28/the-seven-stages-in-tumble-polishing-stones-the-stones-after-320-grit-and-their-inspection-and-sorting-before-stage-five/tumblestoneblog.wordpress.com/2018/09/06/the-seven-stages-in-tumble-polishing-stones-stage-five-pre-polish-tumble-28-august-to-3-september-2018/tumblestoneblog.wordpress.com/2018/09/06/the-seven-stages-in-tumble-polishing-stones-the-stones-after-pre-polish-and-their-inspection-and-sorting-before-stage-six/tumblestoneblog.wordpress.com/2019/04/25/the-seven-stages-in-tumble-polishing-stones-stage-six-pro-polish-tumble-1-october-to-15-october-2018/tumblestoneblog.wordpress.com/2021/03/19/up-date-of-the-seven-stages-in-tumble-polishing-stones-one-less-stage/
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vance71975
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since September 2022
Posts: 760
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Post by vance71975 on Sept 18, 2022 22:15:27 GMT -5
More concered with How do I tell if I am over grinding? Like if I start with 16oz and end with 4oz I am gonna feel like I did something way way wrong. On some stuff, I will be going for perfect, and On those I expect to lose more volume. But I am also doing stuff for a Jewerly maker who wants natural features left but mostly smooth and shiny. So I guess what I am asking is what is the Average amount of lost size/weight? Like if I start at 16oz should I be good at 12oz pending no deep flaws or should I be down to 8 oz again pending no obivious deep pits, cracks, holes, or flaws? I am havin a blast regardless, but would still like an Average loss, like 1/4, 1/8, 1/2, 1/16, etc so I have a rough ball park on where to say ok I didnt over cut or DAMN I lost way too much size. There definitely is an average amount of lost size/weight of all the rocks humans have tumbled, but nobody recorded that and nobody knew the number. What matters at the end is the rock itself and your goal. I don't believe there is a magic number that would work for every cases. That said, there are individuals who keep the record of rock weight losses from time for time. I once came across a series of blog posts (from a New Zealand rock tumbler) that had record about the rocks weight losses for various stages. He also posted a lot of before and after pictures. I found these blog posts very informative and are a treat to my eyes. Hope you enjoy the read too: tumblestoneblog.wordpress.com/2017/11/27/the-seven-stages-in-tumble-polishing-stones-stage-two-100-grit-tumble-15-25-november-2017/tumblestoneblog.wordpress.com/2017/12/13/the-seven-stages-in-tumble-polishing-stones-the-stones-after-100-grit-and-their-inspection-and-sorting-before-stage-three/tumblestoneblog.wordpress.com/2018/02/02/the-seven-stages-in-tumble-polishing-stones-stage-three-220-grit-tumble-4-13-december-2017/tumblestoneblog.wordpress.com/2018/03/28/the-seven-stages-in-tumble-polishing-stones-stage-four-320-grit-tumble-10-20-march-2018/tumblestoneblog.wordpress.com/2018/08/28/the-seven-stages-in-tumble-polishing-stones-the-stones-after-320-grit-and-their-inspection-and-sorting-before-stage-five/tumblestoneblog.wordpress.com/2018/09/06/the-seven-stages-in-tumble-polishing-stones-stage-five-pre-polish-tumble-28-august-to-3-september-2018/tumblestoneblog.wordpress.com/2018/09/06/the-seven-stages-in-tumble-polishing-stones-the-stones-after-pre-polish-and-their-inspection-and-sorting-before-stage-six/tumblestoneblog.wordpress.com/2019/04/25/the-seven-stages-in-tumble-polishing-stones-stage-six-pro-polish-tumble-1-october-to-15-october-2018/tumblestoneblog.wordpress.com/2021/03/19/up-date-of-the-seven-stages-in-tumble-polishing-stones-one-less-stage/AWESOME!!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU!!!! So gotta check this out now lol
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pebblesky
fully equipped rock polisher
Placed another order in rockshed. Happy 2024 everyone!
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,391
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Post by pebblesky on Sept 18, 2022 22:16:38 GMT -5
If you narrow down to a specific rock type and the conditions of the rock (are they more pebble shaped, or are they crushed with sharp edges etc), the experts here might help you with the range of a reasonable weight loss of the rocks.
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vance71975
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since September 2022
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Post by vance71975 on Sept 18, 2022 23:02:10 GMT -5
If you narrow down to a specific rock type and the conditions of the rock (are they more pebble shaped, or are they crushed with sharp edges etc), the experts here might help you with the range of a reasonable weight loss of the rocks. Most of what I am doing are "Leaverite" Rocks I found in various places, some of which I have no Idea what they are. Lots of Quartz and Quartzite. Lots of Green rocks that could be any number of things from jade to greenstone not really sure tho I have submitted photos to a Geologist waiting to hear back on those green rocks. I have Mexican Lace Agate and Zebra Jasper going right now, stage 1 should be done about wed On those.
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nursetumbler
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Member since February 2022
Posts: 928
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Post by nursetumbler on Sept 18, 2022 23:48:18 GMT -5
If you narrow down to a specific rock type and the conditions of the rock (are they more pebble shaped, or are they crushed with sharp edges etc), the experts here might help you with the range of a reasonable weight loss of the rocks. Most of what I am doing are "Leaverite" Rocks I found in various places, some of which I have no Idea what they are. Lots of Quartz and Quartzite. Lots of Green rocks that could be any number of things from jade to greenstone not really sure tho I have submitted photos to a Geologist waiting to hear back on those green rocks. I have Mexican Lace Agate and Zebra Jasper going right now, stage 1 should be done about wed On those. How long have you been tumbling the lace and zebra?
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vance71975
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since September 2022
Posts: 760
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Post by vance71975 on Sept 18, 2022 23:55:06 GMT -5
Most of what I am doing are "Leaverite" Rocks I found in various places, some of which I have no Idea what they are. Lots of Quartz and Quartzite. Lots of Green rocks that could be any number of things from jade to greenstone not really sure tho I have submitted photos to a Geologist waiting to hear back on those green rocks. I have Mexican Lace Agate and Zebra Jasper going right now, stage 1 should be done about wed On those. How long have you been tumbling the lace and zebra? Started them Wed this past week. They are already about 80% where I want them, Tho I did have to split one, had a deep crack that would have ate 50% of the stone to get rid of and I just didnt want to lose that much.
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vance71975
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since September 2022
Posts: 760
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Post by vance71975 on Sept 18, 2022 23:57:49 GMT -5
Most of what I am doing are "Leaverite" Rocks I found in various places, some of which I have no Idea what they are. Lots of Quartz and Quartzite. Lots of Green rocks that could be any number of things from jade to greenstone not really sure tho I have submitted photos to a Geologist waiting to hear back on those green rocks. I have Mexican Lace Agate and Zebra Jasper going right now, stage 1 should be done about wed On those. How long have you been tumbling the lace and zebra? Oh Snap, I just noticed you are in Adrian, Michigan, Your only about an Hour away from me, Im in Bryan Ohio lol
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nursetumbler
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Post by nursetumbler on Sept 19, 2022 0:08:39 GMT -5
How long have you been tumbling the lace and zebra? Oh Snap, I just noticed you are in Adrian, Michigan, Your only about an Hour away from me, Im in Bryan Ohio lol vance71975I was wondering where your NW Ohio was. Husband and I have been to Nethers farm twice. Tried to go rock hounding today. Well that didn't work.
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nursetumbler
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Member since February 2022
Posts: 928
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Post by nursetumbler on Sept 19, 2022 0:12:36 GMT -5
How long have you been tumbling the lace and zebra? Oh Snap, I just noticed you are in Adrian, Michigan, Your only about an Hour away from me, Im in Bryan Ohio lol 37 mins according to google maps
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vance71975
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since September 2022
Posts: 760
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Post by vance71975 on Sept 19, 2022 0:13:23 GMT -5
Oh Snap, I just noticed you are in Adrian, Michigan, Your only about an Hour away from me, Im in Bryan Ohio lol vance71975 I was wondering where your NW Ohio was. Husband and I have been to Nethers farm twice. Tried to go rock hounding today. Well that didn't work. I have been Considering a trip to Nethers next year, Since you have been, is it worth it? How much was it when you went? I have found varying numbers online but if I go I want to leave with like 150 to 200lbs of Rocks to make it worth the trip down since its like 3.5 hours from me.
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vance71975
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since September 2022
Posts: 760
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Post by vance71975 on Sept 19, 2022 0:13:59 GMT -5
Oh Snap, I just noticed you are in Adrian, Michigan, Your only about an Hour away from me, Im in Bryan Ohio lol 37 mins according to google maps LOL Google maps told me 1 hr 1 min (51.6 miles)
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nursetumbler
Cave Dweller
Member since February 2022
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Post by nursetumbler on Sept 19, 2022 0:56:26 GMT -5
vance71975 I was wondering where your NW Ohio was. Husband and I have been to Nethers farm twice. Tried to go rock hounding today. Well that didn't work. I have been Considering a trip to Nethers next year, Since you have been, is it worth it? How much was it when you went? I have found varying numbers online but if I go I want to leave with like 150 to 200lbs of Rocks to make it worth the trip down since its like 3.5 hours from me. Unless you have some kind of power tool or body builder biceps you'll be picking up from what the knappers left free in the pits or up top around the edges. It's $7.50 to go in, 50 cents a pound. My husband bought me a hammer drill from Harbor freight with paddle bits the second time there. Was much easier. Don't park on the pit side, park in her drive unless you have a truck with the thick tires. The flint on the ground can cut your tires. We took a wagon to put the buckets in to roll out. We figured 40+ pounds per 5 gal bucket.
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Post by rmf on Sept 19, 2022 4:59:36 GMT -5
vance71975 In my experience let's assume you start with a big rock 100#. Crushing by hand with a hammer you loose 5-10% depending on the size you want. The finer the more dust or fines. I tend to throw out -1/2" when doing a big batch. Crushing with a jaw crusher you loose about 20-25% again depending on the size you want understanding that the smaller you want it the more waste. I once used a hammer mill and the loss was 35%. For tumbling of the original 100# you are down to 75# (assuming 25% crushing loss) ready for coarse tumbling. Depending on the material hardness and how rounded you like your stones will determine loss. I tended to like my rocks well rounded and tumbled in coarse for about 1 month. My loss was about 30-35%. So a loss of about 25# from the original 75# I had after crushing. this all varies with material hardness, how much you round and the size you tumble.
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Post by Starguy on Sept 19, 2022 10:20:17 GMT -5
vance71975A long time ago I tumbled a bunch of garnets. I actually weighed what went in and what came out. It seems like the polished rocks ended up being around 30% of the original weight. I haven’t ever tried to record the efficiency of tumbling agate. I think agate would have a higher recovery. I typically run all grits a week although I figure coarse is pretty worn out after 4 days. In seven days, I know the grit is worn out.
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quartzilla
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Member since April 2020
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Post by quartzilla on Sept 19, 2022 22:03:27 GMT -5
I run them till they are the shape I like and, ideally, past the imperfections. The rocks tell me when they are ready to move on, if this makes any sense. Sometimes my criteria will change depending on a pattern I don’t want to lose or if it’s one I really like and afraid it will grind down into nothing. The higher quality of rough going in the less mass the stone should lose in ideal situations. I like tumbling stuff I find so it’s a given I’m going to lose more mass than decent quality rough from somewhere like The Rock Shed. Hope this helps.
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