hoolligan1938
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2022
Posts: 253
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Post by hoolligan1938 on Dec 6, 2022 11:16:40 GMT -5
waterboysh - Very good information and photos about the difference in motors. Like you, I'm sure many of us do not know much about electric motors. Just hope they work when called upon. Thanks for giving this your attention.
Jim
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jimgsmith
starting to shine!
Member since September 2022
Posts: 37
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Post by jimgsmith on Dec 6, 2022 13:19:50 GMT -5
Thank you for the detailed explanation. Very helpful. I have had my share of problems with the Lot-O, but (knock on wood) the motor hasn't been one of them...yet. From my read of other threads, it seems like some people have had the Fasco motor for years without a problem, and others, like yourself...ummm, are overachievers. Do we have any sense of why there is such a difference?
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ericabelle
spending too much on rocks
Instagram acct: @erica_shoots_everything
Member since April 2021
Posts: 482
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Post by ericabelle on Dec 6, 2022 14:52:11 GMT -5
ericabelle just out of curiosity, are you using uBlock Origin or another ad blocker? If so, I think I may know why the Amazon link doesn't work. EDIT: Actually that might not matter. I am making a new post about what I've figured out. See this thread. I don’t know, but I was able to get to it with the second link, so it’s all good.👍
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dirtsifter
Cave Dweller
Co to za kamyczek?
Member since September 2022
Posts: 402
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Post by dirtsifter on Dec 6, 2022 16:30:04 GMT -5
Mine does not have the tape or strap. I am hoping to get it up and running in the next few weeks.
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hoolligan1938
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2022
Posts: 253
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Post by hoolligan1938 on Dec 6, 2022 18:02:46 GMT -5
Does anyone have any opinions on the new "Imesa" motor? Is it really any better? I checked the listing shown above for the motor from Amazon that Shawn at the Rock Shed recommended. It looks pretty well sealed and comes in four varieties of power. Has anyone used this motor yet? If you have, what wattage rating did you use? Some more info on this particular motor would be helpful.
Jim
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Post by oregon on Dec 6, 2022 19:37:00 GMT -5
I called Belt Inc and spoke with Tom, the creator of the Lot-O.
Sympathize with all the new motor woes. I highly doubt these things were designed with an offset load in mind, and in the never ending quest of reducing costs, I can only imagine the side loads are causing high failure rates as the motors are being used for an unintended purpose.
I'm more curious if anyone knows the Calway/Belt/ Loto - history. I seem to recall having called several years ago and the person I spoke with said something about having just purchased the company?... My memory could be faulty, but if purchased as a business opportunity, the ethos could well be quite different these days?
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waterboysh
spending too much on rocks
Member since April 2021
Posts: 369
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Post by waterboysh on Dec 8, 2022 9:41:32 GMT -5
Does anyone have any opinions on the new "Imesa" motor? Is it really any better? I checked the listing shown above for the motor from Amazon that Shawn at the Rock Shed recommended. It looks pretty well sealed and comes in four varieties of power. Has anyone used this motor yet? If you have, what wattage rating did you use? I've been using my Imesa motor for about 1.5 months so far without issues. That's not a long time, but it's longer than the Fasco motor made it before starting to fail. I posted about the Amazon motor in another thread and there was some discussion about it, but I don't think anyone here has made this modification. That post was made in September and Shawn had told me they had been using the motor since July. So that's only 2 months of use.
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dirtsifter
Cave Dweller
Co to za kamyczek?
Member since September 2022
Posts: 402
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Post by dirtsifter on Jan 2, 2023 0:08:55 GMT -5
Did Shawn say what wattage motor he tried? And the results?
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waterboysh
spending too much on rocks
Member since April 2021
Posts: 369
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Post by waterboysh on Jan 2, 2023 0:31:13 GMT -5
If I zoom in on the last picture he sent, it looks to be the 30W motor.
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waterboysh
spending too much on rocks
Member since April 2021
Posts: 369
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Post by waterboysh on Apr 27, 2023 10:18:14 GMT -5
For anyone curious, I emailed Shawn at The Rock Shed and asked how their Lot-O with the cement vibrating motor was still working out. The initial email was near the end of July last year and said they had been running it for about 3 weeks. So it's been about 10 months since they started using that motor. Here is what Shawn said in his recent email to me. Also, there is a thread here on this forum where someone has installed the motor as well.
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Post by velodromed on Apr 27, 2023 17:14:26 GMT -5
I don’t have a Lot-O tumbler, but I have become intrigued with the issues people have with the brushed motor. My other hobby is RC cars. I build them run them break them fix them and repeat. So I’ve dealt with a lot of small motors. Most of what I run have brushless motors, but I did have several cars with brushed motors, like what the lot-o has. Those things need maintenance to keep them running well. Especially the bearings. The loud noise people describe as the motors go out sounds like bearings beginning to fail, which in turn overloads the motor, damages the brushes/armature and in general kills it. The motors themselves need to be cleaned out as well. Simply spray electric motor cleaner into the can while running, then blow it out well with compressed air. Bearings, however, sound like the biggest issue. Most motors like this come with relatively cheap bearings to save on cost, so I would not be surprised if they are metal shielded ABEC 1 bearings. I would probably go with a ABEC 5 at the very least but would need to do some research first. Bearings are not really made for the uneven way that the motor with fan weights operate, so the tighter tolerances they have the better, I think. I cannot find a diagram of a lot-o motor to see what size and type the bearings are. I wish I had one in hand so I could take it apart and study it. It could simply be an issue of purchasing higher quality bearings to begin with and maintaining them on a monthly basis. I would get rubber sealed bearings then remove the seals, clean out the oil and pack 2/3rds full with superlube grease. I would service the bearings and clean the motor every month or so, depending upon how much the thing was run. That’s the same maintenance schedule I have my tumblers on basically. Anyway, just thinking here out loud here.
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chris1956
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since July 2022
Posts: 1,171
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Post by chris1956 on May 1, 2023 16:55:43 GMT -5
I installed the same concrete vibrating motor that the Rock Shed did. Mine has been running continuously since the beginning of this year with not issues.
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hoolligan1938
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2022
Posts: 253
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Post by hoolligan1938 on May 1, 2023 17:20:40 GMT -5
I received my Lot-O in December of 22. It's been running, more or less, constantly since then. Knock on wood, no problems. I'm thinking about what velodromed said above and I'm curious about the cleaning of the motor. The old saying is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I understand preventive maintenance but, I'd sure hate to squirt the motor full of cleaner and then get a problem. Just for fun,if you had a Lot-O that had run for five to six months with no problems, would you squirt electronic motor cleaner in it? Your opinions are welcomed.
Jim
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mgroothuis
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2022
Posts: 163
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Post by mgroothuis on May 12, 2023 12:32:25 GMT -5
My motor is failing after about 7 months. It started grinding intermittently the other day. I'll try to finish out this batch (3 more days), but I'm going to retrofit the concrete motor. I bought the shaker motor back in January. EDIT: I didn't finish the 3-days. The Fasco motor died. New concrete shaker motor is installed without any problems. It's significantly quieter than the original Fasco motor. After the internal weights were adjusted, the rock action seems very good. Just need to glue down the dowel again. TRASH:
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dillonf
fully equipped rock polisher
Hounding and tumbling
Member since February 2022
Posts: 1,577
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Post by dillonf on Oct 16, 2023 21:35:35 GMT -5
Unless I take it apart, I cannot visualize the mfg sticker. What I did notice is some engraved (by hand) numbers on the motor and frame of the tumbler. 22-11 on the motor and what I suppose is the serial number on the frame just below the motor. You must have just gotten your unit? That means it was assembled in Nov 2022. There is an easy well to know if you have the Fasco motor that most have or the Imesa motor that I was sent as a replacement. The Fasco motor housing is one solid piece with an endcap. It's held on by 4 clips on the end. The Imesa motor housing is put together differently and imo without knowing anything about motors, is less prone to failure. The Fasco motor uses a spring washer between the bearing and the endcap. This means their manufacturing process doesn't have to be 100% perfect and if there is a small gap, the spring washer keeps pressure on the bearing because it gets sandwiched between the bearing and the end plate. I think the spring washer is the weakest link. It's my believe that my wobbly fans put enough side to side motion into the system that the spring washer was constantly flexing and so broke fairly quickly. The Imesa motor, as far as I can tell from looking through the vent holes, does not appear to use a spring washer. Instead, it looks like the motor housing is in two pieces and split down the middle. The shaft goes into the middle of each side, then some long bolts are put through the whole housing to keep the two halves together. To keep the machining precision needed low, I am assuming that there is a small gap between the two halves. The gap is covered up with this big metallic strip of tape that goes all the way around the housing. This is all an assumption of course based on my observations without taking the motor apart and with little knowledge about how motors work or at assembled. The big strip of metallic tape will be the big giveaway that it's the "new" motor. My Fasco motor died after ~8 months. I bought rocknewb101 Lot-o and it had an Imesa motor on it. I put the Imesa on my unit and it is a much better motor than the Fasco for this application. I have noticed two differences that contribute to this: 1) exactly what waterboysh explained above and 2) the dual shafts are slightly thicker and the fans fit tighter. The fans on the Fasco were always slipping out of alignment and I think this contributes to the deterioration of the motor. The fans on the Imesa haven't slipped out of alignment yet. I think I will put a concrete motor on the other frame when I get a chance, because I can't seem to find a source for the Imesa motors. Does anyone know if these can still be purchased??
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dillonf
fully equipped rock polisher
Hounding and tumbling
Member since February 2022
Posts: 1,577
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Post by dillonf on Oct 16, 2023 21:36:57 GMT -5
My motor is failing after about 7 months. It started grinding intermittently the other day. I'll try to finish out this batch (3 more days), but I'm going to retrofit the concrete motor. I bought the shaker motor back in January. EDIT: I didn't finish the 3-days. The Fasco motor died. New concrete shaker motor is installed without any problems. It's significantly quieter than the original Fasco motor. After the internal weights were adjusted, the rock action seems very good. Just need to glue down the dowel again. TRASH: How did you remove the spot welds holding on the back plate?
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geoff59
spending too much on rocks
Member since October 2022
Posts: 278
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Post by geoff59 on Oct 17, 2023 3:26:39 GMT -5
I know nothing at all about the Lotto, except what I read or see online.
Not long ago, I was on the phone with someone from a Minnesota lapidary supply business, one I think most people here are likely familiar with. I was told that the folks who made the Lotto had finally managed to get the motors for them that the machine really need, and that this motor-quality issue had been more or less solved. So I’m posting this here, because I’m hoping what I was told is actually correct. Nobody using Lottos or buying new ones is posting online, repeating/confirming this info so I am not sure….I don’t want to trash anyone I’ve never even met in person. When I was starting out he was a good source of info for me, and he corrected me a couple of times when I was going down other lapidary rabbit holes, even now I continue to do business with him from time to time. I am just posting this info because I am hoping what he told me is true. I think sometime this coming winter I’ll be adding a vibe, so the topic here interests me.
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dillonf
fully equipped rock polisher
Hounding and tumbling
Member since February 2022
Posts: 1,577
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Post by dillonf on Oct 17, 2023 4:55:45 GMT -5
I know nothing at all about the Lotto, except what I read or see online. Not long ago, I was on the phone with someone from a Minnesota lapidary supply business, one I think most people here are likely familiar with. I was told that the folks who made the Lotto had finally managed to get the motors for them that the machine really need, and that this motor-quality issue had been more or less solved. So I’m posting this here, because I’m hoping what I was told is actually correct. Nobody using Lottos or buying new ones is posting online, repeating/confirming this info so I am not sure….I don’t want to trash anyone I’ve never even met in person. When I was starting out he was a good source of info for me, and he corrected me a couple of times when I was going down other lapidary rabbit holes, even now I continue to do business with him from time to time. I am just posting this info because I am hoping what he told me is true. I think sometime this coming winter I’ll be adding a vibe, so the topic here interests me. Thanks, if you can give me the name of the business, and/or contact info I'll reach out to them. The online lapidary shops I see are still selling the Fasco motor which has a proven track record of repeated failure. To be honest I don't think the Fasco motor is a bad motor - they work great on rotaries. I think it is not designed for a vibratory application, and the continuous vibrations make it fail.
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rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,316
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Post by rocknewb101 on Oct 17, 2023 7:04:12 GMT -5
You must have just gotten your unit? That means it was assembled in Nov 2022. There is an easy well to know if you have the Fasco motor that most have or the Imesa motor that I was sent as a replacement. The Fasco motor housing is one solid piece with an endcap. It's held on by 4 clips on the end. The Imesa motor housing is put together differently and imo without knowing anything about motors, is less prone to failure. The Fasco motor uses a spring washer between the bearing and the endcap. This means their manufacturing process doesn't have to be 100% perfect and if there is a small gap, the spring washer keeps pressure on the bearing because it gets sandwiched between the bearing and the end plate. I think the spring washer is the weakest link. It's my believe that my wobbly fans put enough side to side motion into the system that the spring washer was constantly flexing and so broke fairly quickly. The Imesa motor, as far as I can tell from looking through the vent holes, does not appear to use a spring washer. Instead, it looks like the motor housing is in two pieces and split down the middle. The shaft goes into the middle of each side, then some long bolts are put through the whole housing to keep the two halves together. To keep the machining precision needed low, I am assuming that there is a small gap between the two halves. The gap is covered up with this big metallic strip of tape that goes all the way around the housing. This is all an assumption of course based on my observations without taking the motor apart and with little knowledge about how motors work or at assembled. The big strip of metallic tape will be the big giveaway that it's the "new" motor. My Fasco motor died after ~8 months. I bought rocknewb101 Lot-o and it had an Imesa motor on it. I put the Imesa on my unit and it is a much better motor than the Fasco for this application. I have noticed two differences that contribute to this: 1) exactly what waterboysh explained above and 2) the dual shafts are slightly thicker and the fans fit tighter. The fans on the Fasco were always slipping out of alignment and I think this contributes to the deterioration of the motor. The fans on the Imesa haven't slipped out of alignment yet. I think I will put a concrete motor on the other frame when I get a chance, because I can't seem to find a source for the Imesa motors. Does anyone know if these can still be purchased?? dillonf - that lot-o initially had the fasco motor on it - the Imesa is the replacement they sent after the original motor died after a few months. That new motor has only 2-3 batches run through it.
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mgroothuis
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2022
Posts: 163
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Post by mgroothuis on Oct 17, 2023 9:31:30 GMT -5
How did you remove the spot welds holding on the back plate? I didn't actually. I just used a Dremel and a cut-off wheel to remove the side plates. I painted the exposed metal red to hide the ugly cuts.
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