rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,368
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Post by rocknewb101 on Dec 13, 2022 8:20:28 GMT -5
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Post by rockjunquie on Dec 13, 2022 8:42:13 GMT -5
Sorry. I was gonna like your post, but I couldn't. Hope you sort it out. Something clearly went wrong.
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rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,368
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Post by rocknewb101 on Dec 13, 2022 9:24:11 GMT -5
Sorry. I was gonna like your post, but I couldn't. Hope you sort it out. Something clearly went wrong. Thanks, rockjunquie. I'm assuming I missed a cracked rock or something. It's very much a bummer.
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geoff59
spending too much on rocks
Member since October 2022
Posts: 288
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Post by geoff59 on Dec 13, 2022 10:20:29 GMT -5
“several stones broke apart”, this to me indicates that there was not enough ceramic pellets/cushion in the can. That is a major bummer. In pre-polish & polish, I fill past 3/4 with extra pellets, up to 85% or 90% even. I always think it won’t work, it’s too tightly packed, but it does work! I mean compared to the 2/3 or 3/4 we’re all schooled on. IMO, when in a polish stage, we don’t need a lot of movement inside a can to obtain a beautiful result. Just a little bit, applied over a week or 2, is plenty. I’ve been overfilling all of my tumbles in these last 2 stages since pretty early on, looking back at notes and stuff, I started this habit after my first few months. I remember I was motivated by a video on You Tube which shows someone who, we would all agree, knows exactly what they are doing when it comes to rock tumbling, and I was amazed at how many pellets he put in to his cans. How “overfilled” they looked! The video topic was about how full should it be kind of thing, and ever since I’ve been doing the same thing.
Sometimes with new, unused pellets, they can look a bit sharp or rough to me. Especially the larger sized. Makes me a bit nervous, when thinking about adding them to these last stages. So for prepolish and polish stages, when I need pellets to add to these stages and I only have new ones on hand, I will sometimes load up a couple of 3 lb cans to 80% or so full, add a tbsp or so of #220 and some water, and tumble the pellets for just a day or so, to get the slightest of round edges on each pellet. Probably unnecessary, but that’s what I do. When done, I rinse and dry them, bag them up separately from the rest of the pellets, and use them when needed.
here is the video:
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Post by HankRocks on Dec 13, 2022 10:33:59 GMT -5
Could you post a picture of the complete load. I tumble polish a good bit of crystal Quartz(Ark). You mentioned agates came out well. I almost never tumble crystal Quartz with agates of any size, any in there are all smalls. Crystal Quartz is notorious for frosting, especially if mixed with equal sized or larger agates. The same reason that cutting Quartz crystals is easy contributes to the frosting; alignment of the molecules in planes. The picture below shows 3 frost prone materials, Quartz, Tiger Eye and Apache Tears, all polished together in a UV-18 batch. What is not shown is the 6-7 pounds of Pea Gravel and small pre polished trimming pieces. The added smalls and no large individual pieces is the trick in my mind. IMG_1811 by Findrocks, on Flickr
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rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,368
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Post by rocknewb101 on Dec 13, 2022 10:37:26 GMT -5
“several stones broke apart”, this to me indicates that there was not enough ceramic pellets/cushion in the can. That is a major bummer. In pre-polish & polish, I fill past 3/4 with extra pellets, up to 85% or 90% even. I always think it won’t work, it’s too tightly packed, but it does work! I mean compared to the 2/3 or 3/4 we’re all schooled on. IMO, when in a polish stage, we don’t need a lot of movement inside a can to obtain a beautiful result. Just a little bit, applied over a week or 2, is plenty. I’ve been overfilling all of my tumbles in these last 2 stages since pretty early on, looking back at notes and stuff, I started this habit after my first few months. I remember I was motivated by a video on You Tube which shows someone who, we would all agree, knows exactly what they are doing when it comes to rock tumbling, and I was amazed at how many pellets he put in to his cans. How “overfilled” they looked! The video topic was about how full should it be kind of thing, and ever since I’ve been doing the same thing. Sometimes with new, unused pellets, they can look a bit sharp or rough to me. Especially the larger sized. Makes me a bit nervous, when thinking about adding them to these last stages. So for prepolish and polish stages, when I need pellets to add to these stages and I only have new ones on hand, I will sometimes load up a couple of 3 lb cans to 80% or so full, add a tbsp or so of #220 and some water, and tumble the pellets for just a day or so, to get the slightest of round edges on each pellet. Probably unnecessary, but that’s what I do. When done, I rinse and dry them, bag them up separately from the rest of the pellets, and use them when needed. Thank you, geoff59. I typically fill my barrels pretty full and wondered if I might have had them too full...I only have 2lb barrels though, not sure if that makes a difference. I will be more diligent for my next quartz (I have bags of smokey, fire and clear - just wish I practiced on them before doing the rutilated...) tumble to make sure they are fuller than I feel they should be. I'll have to google that video you mentioned to see if I can find it. Always learning!! Thank you for your response!
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Post by victor1941 on Dec 13, 2022 10:42:02 GMT -5
Rocknewb101, I use a UV-18 vibe and ceramic pellets for all stages with a full load like Geoff59. Your stones appear to have impact marks because of a lack of enough cushioning. I don't use a rotary but others will probably tell you to start again and use more ceramics to get a great result.
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rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,368
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Post by rocknewb101 on Dec 13, 2022 10:51:31 GMT -5
@hankrocks - wow - those are gorgeous!! I'll share a post of all of them when I get home - I only tumbled the quartz in this batch - I do try to keep like rocks together (only agates, only quartz, etc) - you say no large individual pieces, but I thought we were supposed to have a mix of bigs and smalls. Could that be where I went wrong? I'll share the pic when I get home, but it's pretty depressing...Also have lots of polish stuck in cracks that I swear I didn't notice when moving into polish.. Oh - one other thing I noticed, when I opened the tumbler it seemed rather "dry" in there - not a lot of polish slurry, was thicker - does the plastic media absorb water? Maybe another error...
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rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,368
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Post by rocknewb101 on Dec 13, 2022 10:53:11 GMT -5
Rocknewb101, I use a UV-18 vibe and ceramic pellets for all stages with a full load like Geoff59. Your stones appear to have impact marks because of a lack of enough cushioning. I don't use a rotary but others will probably tell you to start again and use more ceramics to get a great result. Thank you victor1941 I'm excited to say that I'm getting a lot-o vibe for Christmas and once I do my plan will be to only tumble stage one and move the others to the vibe for 2,3,4...I should have waited. Patience was never my virtue and now I have regrets .
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Post by HankRocks on Dec 13, 2022 11:37:37 GMT -5
@hankrocks - wow - those are gorgeous!! I'll share a post of all of them when I get home - I only tumbled the quartz in this batch - I do try to keep like rocks together (only agates, only quartz, etc) - you say no large individual pieces, but I thought we were supposed to have a mix of bigs and smalls. Could that be where I went wrong? I'll share the pic when I get home, but it's pretty depressing...Also have lots of polish stuck in cracks that I swear I didn't notice when moving into polish.. Oh - one other thing I noticed, when I opened the tumbler it seemed rather "dry" in there - not a lot of polish slurry, was thicker - does the plastic media absorb water? Maybe another error... Plastic media should not absorb water. Also I always shake the barrel when adding water before closing it up. That allows any voids that may have developed when filling to be filled. In my case I use dried slurry and or lots of saved polish in my batches. You never know when the dried slurry or grit/polish can create a dam and the water level not be as expected. Not to worry about a failed batch, we have all been there. As it turns out I have a partially failed batch with the same mix just out of the soap run this morning. Two possible factors for the failure; I used a Rotary for the polish run as my UV-18 is currently being re-built, and a few of the quartz pieces were larger than they should have been and the same for the Apache Tears. The Tiger Eye and the most of the Quartz came out fine, the Apache Tears suffered the most. In my mind the Rotary(Model B) was the primary culprit with it's more aggressive action. I will sort the damaged pieces out and re-run them in 500AO and then to polish in the hopefully re-built UV-18 adding pre-polished smalls to makeup the batch.
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rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,368
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Post by rocknewb101 on Dec 13, 2022 11:58:24 GMT -5
That video was very helpful and he really fills his barrels fuller than I do, so i will definitely try that. I usually do 2/3, but maybe I was a little low with the quartz's. THANK YOU everyone!!
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Post by susand24224 on Dec 22, 2022 0:04:42 GMT -5
I agree with all comments so far but one question: how large is your ceramic media? All the macrocrystalline quartzes can be a bit "touchy." When I used to tumble them (as well as common opal) I always added a thickener as well as ceramic shapes. Some scrapings of Ivory Soap was my usual choice. It just makes them slide more than collide. My ceramic media was different sizes, not because I bought it that way but because it wore down at different rates, and I think the different sizes helped as well. Also, it is better not to mix types of rocks, although your companion choices were good. But if you're going for perfection, I would leave out the tiger eye and obsidian.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,557
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Post by jamesp on Dec 22, 2022 7:41:26 GMT -5
rocknewb101 I never had any bruising or frosting with crystalline quartz or even glass if I kept the barrel full enough. I never used media in the rotary, I just tumbled a good mix of sizes and added enough rock as the batch got smaller to maintain 3/4 full. Once you get to know the sound of your rotary barrel you can tell if there is an excess rattling noise. Because the batch will make a fairly strong rattling noise if your rocks are being damaged. Especially during the finishing steps. I have often questioned my opinion of what is truly 2/3 or 3/4 full. It is not a precision call... It is OK to lean to the 3/4+ full during 220-500-1000-polish stages, these steps can be performed with a much fuller barrel than step 1 grind-the-crap-out-of-the-rocks-stage. And these are the steps when most bruising and frosting occurs. Wish you well. PS Yes those rocks can be salvaged. Certainly. To be safe it would be best to start over at 220, then 500-1000(if you do 1000 step)-polish. I always did step 1 SIC - 220 SiC- AO 500 - AO polish, i.e. 4 rotary steps and never the 1000 step.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,557
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Post by jamesp on Dec 22, 2022 7:46:08 GMT -5
Could you post a picture of the complete load. I tumble polish a good bit of crystal Quartz(Ark). You mentioned agates came out well. I almost never tumble crystal Quartz with agates of any size, any in there are all smalls. Crystal Quartz is notorious for frosting, especially if mixed with equal sized or larger agates. The same reason that cutting Quartz crystals is easy contributes to the frosting; alignment of the molecules in planes. The picture below shows 3 frost prone materials, Quartz, Tiger Eye and Apache Tears, all polished together in a UV-18 batch. What is not shown is the 6-7 pounds of Pea Gravel and small pre polished trimming pieces. The added smalls and no large individual pieces is the trick in my mind. IMG_1811 by Findrocks, on Flickr How many of those beer bottle caps were popped in the completion of this fine tumble Henry ? Certainly not a staggering amount !
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,557
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Post by jamesp on Dec 22, 2022 7:55:29 GMT -5
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Post by Starguy on Dec 22, 2022 10:28:11 GMT -5
rocknewb101 I’ve had similar results with other crystalline rocks. Plastic pellets have always fixed the problem. Pellets need to be dedicated to one grit size. I usually start adding pellets to the 220 and later stages. If it’s only surface frosting, you may be able to correct the polish by going back to stage 2. P.S. It’s not a fail, it’s a learning experience.
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rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,368
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Post by rocknewb101 on Dec 22, 2022 13:58:13 GMT -5
rocknewb101 I never had any bruising or frosting with crystalline quartz or even glass if I kept the barrel full enough. I never used media in the rotary, I just tumbled a good mix of sizes and added enough rock as the batch got smaller to maintain 3/4 full. Once you get to know the sound of your rotary barrel you can tell if there is an excess rattling noise. Because the batch will make a fairly strong rattling noise if your rocks are being damaged. Especially during the finishing steps. I have often questioned my opinion of what is truly 2/3 or 3/4 full. It is not a precision call... It is OK to lean to the 3/4+ full during 220-500-1000-polish stages, these steps can be performed with a much fuller barrel than step 1 grind-the-crap-out-of-the-rocks-stage. And these are the steps when most bruising and frosting occurs. Wish you well. PS Yes those rocks can be salvaged. Certainly. To be safe it would be best to start over at 220, then 500-1000(if you do 1000 step)-polish. I always did step 1 SIC - 220 SiC- AO 500 - AO polish, i.e. 4 rotary steps and never the 1000 step. Thank you so much jamesp I appreciate the input - I do think there was some rattling going on - there were a lot of med-small with 2 or 3 larger pieces in there. In a few days I get my vibe and I may try them in there as a redo.
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rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,368
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Post by rocknewb101 on Dec 22, 2022 14:01:17 GMT -5
rocknewb101 I’ve had similar results with other crystalline rocks. Plastic pellets have always fixed the problem. Pellets need to be dedicated to one grit size. I usually start adding pellets to the 220 and later stages. If it’s only surface frosting, you may be able to correct the polish by going back to stage 2. P.S. It’s not a fail, it’s a learning experience. Thanks Starguy - and you are right, learning is key and no one jumps into anything getting it right all the time - I need those reminders when I get frustrated . I knew about the single stage with the pellets, and had always heard they were more cushiony (??) I just find them very tedious to work with.
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Post by drocknut on Dec 22, 2022 14:16:11 GMT -5
At least you can say you tried. It's a learning process for sure. Keep it up, you'll get it.
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Post by Starguy on Dec 22, 2022 18:05:31 GMT -5
LOL rocknewb101 . I think plastic pellets are a PITA too. That being said, they do help with more delicate rocks. I wish I could find some plastic pellets that didn’t float. Here’s a photo of some Idaho star garnets I tumbled several years ago. Even with pure garnet in the barrel, they wanted a frosted/bruised finish. The pellets helped immensely. These were polished with tin oxide. The recommended polish for garnet is chrome oxide, but it’s messy. I would like to run them through another prepolish and Chrome oxide step to get that almost metallic polish to the purple rocks. The garnets have had at least two polish cycles, maybe three. There’s still some improvement in polish to be had. Your chunk in the third photo will look so cool with a better polish. The garnets are crystalline too. There’s a reason I stick to tumbling agate these days. Your rutilated quartz looks beautiful. I love the golden color on some of them. I know you can fix this. Keep us posted.
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