compendium
off to a rocking start
Member since June 2023
Posts: 5
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Post by compendium on Jun 3, 2023 14:50:39 GMT -5
Hello I am new here and new to tumbling. I read a lot of web blogs before starting. My grits were purchased from rockhound. They are silicon carbid for the rough grits and I used cerium oxide for the polish stage.Ivory soap for burnish.
The amethyst came out smooth but, foggy. When they are wet they're gorgeous when they dry they have this white color created by what looks like micro scratches. Like etched glass. 1 1/2 Tbs used in each process
Couple places I think mistakes were made: 3ib rotary tumbler with 13 oz of crystals NO tumbling media
Each stage was run for 7 days burnishing 1 hr.
So, am I correct in my assessment? How far back up the process do I need to go to fix this?
Thank you in advance For your time. Namaste
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hoolligan1938
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2022
Posts: 253
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Post by hoolligan1938 on Jun 3, 2023 16:46:56 GMT -5
Maybe more time with the 500 grit and then try some 1000 grit as well. Definitly add some ceramic media in the mix for all stages. Hope this helps.
Jim
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afterburnt
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since June 2021
Posts: 152
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Post by afterburnt on Jun 3, 2023 17:38:31 GMT -5
Need more info like what grit in what stage etc.
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compendium
off to a rocking start
Member since June 2023
Posts: 5
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Post by compendium on Jun 3, 2023 18:54:59 GMT -5
Need more info like what grit in what stage etc. 60/80 150/220 500 Cerium oxide Some of the amethyst came out perfect these were 3 smaller stones that most likely got trapped at the bottom. So, they would have had constant contact with the grits and add in the larger stones acting as a buffer agent they became crystal clear. This is what led me to think the lack of ceramic media is the cause. As far as stage they have been frosted since the end of stage 1 each stage a little less but never not frosted. This is the first batch of stones I have ever tumbled but, I do understand the process in nature and, I have been playing with crystals for over 10 years now. So, I also understand mohs hardness and how that effects the process.
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dillonf
fully equipped rock polisher
Hounding and tumbling
Member since February 2022
Posts: 1,583
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Post by dillonf on Jun 3, 2023 21:38:05 GMT -5
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Post by Starguy on Jun 3, 2023 21:58:02 GMT -5
compendiumI think some type of smaller filler would help. From your description it sounds like impact damage between the crystals is causing them to have a frosted finish. A mix of sizes will help with that. Quartz minerals are a little sensitive to impacts in the tumbler. They’re particularly sensitive in the later tumbling stages. Keeping the barrel at leas 2/3, preferably 3/4 full might help too. I’ve had really good luck using plastic pellets with sensitive rocks. They’re a pain during cleanouts but they do a great job of cushioning the impacts.
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Post by susand24224 on Jun 4, 2023 2:02:23 GMT -5
I'm picturing "frosting" as what I call bruising of the rock surface. When I tumbled amethyst, or quartz, or citrine any microcrystalline quartz, I (1) added at least 50% filler, and (2) I used ivory soap shavings to somewhat thicken the liquid and lessen the impact. You don't have this problem with macrocrystalline quartzes, i.e., agate, chert, etc.
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compendium
off to a rocking start
Member since June 2023
Posts: 5
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Post by compendium on Jun 4, 2023 9:46:09 GMT -5
It's a rotary tumbler from harbor freight. According to the internet it is about mid quality better than some worse than others. I figure it is decent enough to cut my teeth on before I buy a vibratory tumbler and a better quality rotary.
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compendium
off to a rocking start
Member since June 2023
Posts: 5
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Post by compendium on Jun 4, 2023 9:54:48 GMT -5
I'm picturing "frosting" as what I call bruising of the rock surface. When I tumbled amethyst, or quartz, or citrine any microcrystalline quartz, I (1) added at least 50% filler, and (2) I used ivory soap shavings to somewhat thicken the liquid and lessen the impact. You don't have this problem with macrocrystalline quartzes, i.e., agate, chert, etc. Brusing is probably the correct term, it looks like etched glass. I am all self taught so I lack most of the proper terminology. I am going to purchase a tumbling media this week and see what I can do with that. To be honest I wasn't expecting perfection sine I have never done this. I was like hey let's throw it in and see what happens then I started reading about it 😂🤣. I have 2 more pounds of raw amethyst left to play with and an extensive rock collection to work with. So lots of learning to be had I am sure.
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compendium
off to a rocking start
Member since June 2023
Posts: 5
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Post by compendium on Jun 4, 2023 9:56:36 GMT -5
compendium I think some type of smaller filler would help. From your description it sounds like impact damage between the crystals is causing them to have a frosted finish. A mix of sizes will help with that. Quartz minerals are a little sensitive to impacts in the tumbler. They’re particularly sensitive in the later tumbling stages. Keeping the barrel at leas 2/3, preferably 3/4 full might help too. I’ve had really good luck using plastic pellets with sensitive rocks. They’re a pain during cleanouts but they do a great job of cushioning the impacts. Thank you I will be purchasing a tumbling media sometime this week most likely. When I do I will report back. And let everyone know how it goes.
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dillonf
fully equipped rock polisher
Hounding and tumbling
Member since February 2022
Posts: 1,583
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Post by dillonf on Jun 4, 2023 10:06:44 GMT -5
It's a rotary tumbler from harbor freight. According to the internet it is about mid quality better than some worse than others. I figure it is decent enough to cut my teeth on before I buy a vibratory tumbler and a better quality rotary. I agree with the others that you probably have bruising from too little cushioning media. Also, if your tumbler spins too quickly that could cause bruising - and the only solution is more cushioning media. I agree with the suggestion of 50/50 amethyst/ceramic media or plastic pellets. Looks like from what I can tell your harbor freight probably doesn't spin too quickly like a nat geo or something. I would also suggest getting some polish from the Rock Shed - it makes a world of difference. You could order both ceramic and polish from them. I would go back to the 220 grit stage and work your way back down to polish. Best of luck!!
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Post by Starguy on Jun 4, 2023 14:37:49 GMT -5
compendiumI try to find small agates for filler instead of ceramic media. By small, I’m estimating 50-100 pieces per pound. At least with small agates, there’s a chance they’ll turn out attractive. Agates in general are much easier to polish than crystalline rocks like amethyst or garnet. It’s been a little hit or miss but Kingsley North often has small Lake Superior Agates. I like them but any smaller size rocks will work. The noise tumblers make can also tell you a lot about what’s going on inside. Surface frosting can be caused by rocks rolling down the surface of the tumbling mass and colliding with others at the bottom. You can hear this happening. It sounds like clicks or ticks inside the barrel. Ideally, the rocks are sliding past each other rather than rolling. That sounds more like a swishing, grinding sound. There will still be clicks of colliding rocks but not as frequently.
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Post by susand24224 on Jun 5, 2023 16:37:25 GMT -5
compendiumI try to find small agates for filler instead of ceramic media. By small, I’m estimating 50-100 pieces per pound. At least with small agates, there’s a chance they’ll turn out attractive. Agates in general are much easier to polish than crystalline rocks like amethyst or garnet. It’s been a little hit or miss but Kingsley North often has small Lake Superior Agates. I like them but any smaller size rocks will work. My knowledge says that there are two *main* factors in tumbling, hardness and brittleness. Since amethyst is brittle and agates aren't, I'm thinking that using agates as filler with amethyst may not be such a great idea. BUT--I've never tried it, and I would be happy to hear that I am wrong!
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Post by Starguy on Jun 5, 2023 17:55:09 GMT -5
compendium I try to find small agates for filler instead of ceramic media. By small, I’m estimating 50-100 pieces per pound. At least with small agates, there’s a chance they’ll turn out attractive. Agates in general are much easier to polish than crystalline rocks like amethyst or garnet. It’s been a little hit or miss but Kingsley North often has small Lake Superior Agates. I like them but any smaller size rocks will work. My knowledge says that there are two *main* factors in tumbling, hardness and brittleness. Since amethyst is brittle and agates aren't, I'm thinking that using agates as filler with amethyst may not be such a great idea. BUT--I've never tried it, and I would be happy to hear that I am wrong! I agree that agates are way tougher than amethyst even though their hardnesses are similar. The agates I recommended are pretty small, mostly as small or smaller than ceramics.
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Post by susand24224 on Jun 6, 2023 22:24:12 GMT -5
[/quote]I agree that agates are way tougher than amethyst even though their hardnesses are similar. The agates I recommended are pretty small, mostly as small or smaller than ceramics. [/quote]
Gotcha! I confess I am somewhat challenged as to how many agates of what sizes make a pound. Thanks for your response.
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dirtsifter
Cave Dweller
Co to za kamyczek?
Member since September 2022
Posts: 402
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Post by dirtsifter on Jun 12, 2023 18:22:11 GMT -5
Just my 2 cents. I would try using aluminum oxide polish from the Rock Shed. I did an experiment with 2 different brands of polish. 1 was aluminum oxide from the Rock Shed, the other was Nat Geo polish ( type not specified on the bottle. (received as a gift). The result were different as night and day. The Nat Geo polish resulted in smooth but frosted appearance. Both tumbler barrels were filled with the similar rocks and same fullness. 24 hours in the Lot O with rock shed polish fixed that. Happy tumbling. Don't get discouraged. Rooting for you!
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Post by vegasjames on Jun 12, 2023 20:46:40 GMT -5
Welcome to the forum.
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cthomas
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Member since April 2023
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Post by cthomas on Jun 17, 2023 14:49:53 GMT -5
As others have said you definitely need to add some media. Ceramic or plastic will work but for the best thing for quartz like rocks like amethyst is other quartz rocks. Home Depot sells bags of small yellow iron stained quartz rocks for landscaping use. I fill my barrel with 50% or more of that and then add my quartz.
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stefan
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Member since January 2005
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Post by stefan on Jun 28, 2023 8:27:00 GMT -5
You "almost" got it. Cerium oxide has never worked well for me (but others swear by it). Frosted glass appearance usually means that you're either rushing things or the rocks are hitting each other too hard. My guess would be both. Add some filler in all stages (I recently tried those bags of cheap decorative stone from the dollar stores and it worked very well). For the later stages I use Poly Plastic filler beads. THey float and a tea strainer and a little patience makes them easy to remove (I save them and re-use them in the same stage only- I have some that are almost 20 years old and still work great). I run my stages from medium (120/220) onward for 2 weeks (polish runs 3 weeks). Make sure you are cleaning the barrel very carefully because even a few pieces of grit transferred to the next stage can ruin a batch. I have separate barrels for each stage and I still spend time cleaning them out very carefully. Lastly make sure you're getting quality polishes. I use the Rock Shed and Kingsley North for Aluminium Oxide. I also like Tin Oxide, but the price has really gone up too much to use on a regular basis.
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