Emmeline
off to a rocking start
Member since October 2023
Posts: 5
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Post by Emmeline on Oct 18, 2023 10:45:27 GMT -5
Okay, so this isn't my first rotary, because I had one of these as a kid (that I basically wasn't allowed to use because it was too loud 🙃)  I have an MT-4 mini sonic that I've been using with 220+ grit (and another hopper for polish) with already fairly smooth beach rocks. I chose this in large part because it isn't terribly loud, doesn't have a motor!, and lots of folks get really great shine out of them. I live in an apartment building and don't want to disrupt my neighbors (nor my own ears). Sound level, quality, and ease of maintenance are most important to me. It's not that I can't or don't want to do maintenance, but 25+ year old spine injury has left my hands and fingers unable to do much of what others can. While it'd be great to buy something made locally, that part really isn't that important to me unless I have 2 machines equal on sound, quality, and ease of maintenance. Anyway, I was basically set on a Lortone 33b. But then, thanks to this forum, I learned about the HP rotary tumblers, which do look just like Lortone's. All of the folks suggesting the Lortone rotary tumblers seem to have had them for a long time. Making a rough guess, on average 12+ years (range 10-30ish years), which makes sense. Many here prefer "made in USA--Washington State" (Lortone), vs "based in Massachusetts(?), design/shipping/etc from Texas, and made in China" ( HP). There's also been lots of posts here about newer Lortone 33b units that fail within a few months to a year, arrive with something wrong with them, or the like. Has Lortone changed something in their manufacturing? Used a different motor than 10 years ago? Supply chain during early pandemic made getting higher quality parts impossible? (these are rhetorical questions--though if someone knows the answers, I'll take them!) The HP's brushless DC motor is compelling, as are the space available between the barrels, the brass(?) nobs on the barrels, and the guides on either end that hold the barrels in place during rotation. One post mentioned that the HP 3 lb barrels are possibly thinner than Lortone's and don't have the bumps inside that Lortone's have to support material movement, although another with a 4.5 lb barrel (I think) said that theirs did have those bumps. The HP is about $15 cheaper, which isn't much given how high the prices are for both models. I'm leaning toward the Highland Park models, even though they don't (yet?) have a manual and there aren't spare parts available. I'd love to hear from anyone using the HP 3 pound models, as well as anything else I've not thought of. Thank you! |
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Post by southernlakehuronguy on Oct 18, 2023 11:36:07 GMT -5
There is some discussion of the HP tumblers on this forum...https://forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/100986/say-goodbye-lortone-tumblers
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Post by Starguy on Oct 18, 2023 11:50:32 GMT -5
It seems to me that you have thought it through pretty well. I’ve always used Lortone rotary tumblers. I’ve been very happy with them.
Most tumblers are pretty simple. I would avoid any tumbler that has a lot of plastic parts. It sounds like you are pretty close to pulling the trigger. Let us know what you decide.
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Post by chris1956 on Oct 18, 2023 11:55:26 GMT -5
As background, I have a Lortone 3A that is 2 years old and a QT12 that is about 18 months old. I haven't had issues with them other than replacing a belt on the QT12 and the little rubber pads (feet?) on the 3A came off. When the discussion about the 2 barrel HP came up on the formum, I thought their idea of keeping the barrels separated sounded like a good idea although I haven't had a 2 barrel setup. Also liked the idea of the brass nut. I seem to recall some discussion in the past on the formum about round vs "nobbed" inside of the barrel and that "nob" seems to have better action but I don't have any experience with the round. It is hard to believe that HP doesn't have a manual ready when they are selling the units. But since the units are basically a copy, you can probably get a copy of the manual for the 2B somewhere online. As far as USA vs China, I always like USA but.... If the Lortone barrel is made overseas, then probably about the only thing made in USA is the frame and the assembly. Just to throw another monkey wrench into your decision, the 3A size barrel doesn't round larger rocks like a larger barrel does. My QT12 really punishes the big rocks. So, if you had the money, maybe a 3A and a 6 or 9 pound unit would be good. With all the issues that have been posted on the forum about the 2B, I might be tempted to go with the HP. Toss up.  |
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iamchris
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2023
Posts: 722
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Post by iamchris on Oct 18, 2023 13:10:43 GMT -5
I have a Lortone 45C I bought new from Rock Shed about a half year ago. It had issues with it right out of the box and Lortone wasn't returning phone calls. If it wasn't for Shawn from Rock Shed, I'd never have gotten the part to fix it.
The HP ones look higher quality and contain better parts. Forget about USA vs. China. The Chinese make a better product, or at least it appears so. If the HP was on the market when I bought my 45C, that's what I would have bought.
Now that the 45C is up and running fine, I'm sure it will serve me well for decades, but especially given the frustration I had with a new product, HP is the way to go.
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Post by pebblesky on Oct 18, 2023 13:11:40 GMT -5
I was about to recommend a bigger tumbler, but that is definitely not good for the hands and fingers...
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Post by chris1956 on Oct 18, 2023 14:45:55 GMT -5
I have a Lortone 45C I bought new from Rock Shed about a half year ago. It had issues with it right out of the box and Lortone wasn't returning phone calls. If it wasn't for Shawn from Rock Shed, I'd never have gotten the part to fix it. The HP ones look higher quality and contain better parts. Forget about USA vs. China. The Chinese make a better product, or at least it appears so. If the HP was on the market when I bought my 45C, that's what I would have bought. Now that the 45C is up and running fine, I'm sure it will serve me well for decades, but especially given the frustration I had with a new product, HP is the way to go. I have never thought much about the quality of Chinese products. However, lately that seems to be changing and there are good products coming out of China. Reminds me of when you could say the same thing about Japanese products in the 60s. Oops, did I date myself? Anyway, to tell a story, recently my neighbor offered me a computer desk. It was something his son got when he bought a pallet of damaged goods from Amazon. Of course, it was made in China. The package was damaged but nothing inside was damaged and just a couple wood dowels were missing (which I could easily make myself). As I was putting it together, I was very impressed by the quality of the desk. It had a lot of metal in it, the wood parts were well made, and the directions were pretty easy to follow. The funny thing about it was that in the "manual" that they provided it said to contact them if there were any issues with the product or if you had questions. Yes, of course, nowhere in the manual was there a telephone number to call or an email. In fact, no where in the manual was there the name of the manufacuter of the desk. Not only that, the manufactuer's name was nowhere on the desk itself. The only manufactuer's information was on the small motor (hmmm. wonder if I could use that on my Lot-O? LOL) used to raise and lower the desk. I would have thought that there is a law that says everything imported has to have the manufacturer identified? I am guessing that they didn't want to deal with any liability issues that might come from the USA. |
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hypodactylus
spending too much on rocks
Member since July 2021
Posts: 479
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Post by hypodactylus on Oct 18, 2023 16:33:17 GMT -5
I have never tried the dual barrel tumblers, but I have used a number of Lortone tumblers and I recently acquired a Highland Park single barrel (3lb) model. My Lortone 3A motor stopped working correctly after around three years of use. My Lortone QT12 and 45C are still going strong (haven't had them as long). I can't speak to the longevity of the HP tumblers since I have only had mine for around a month. I decided to buy the Highland Park tumbler after my Lortone motor died because I was curious and because replacing the motor was actually not particularly cheap (with price, shipping, and time considerations). I am keeping the tumbler in case I want to get a new motor in the future. The HP tumbler seems very nice so far. I wish the single barrel model would spin a bit faster, but it appears the dual barrel tumbler spins pretty similar to the Lortone small barrel tumblers. The HP small tumbler barrels do feel a bit thinner than the Lortone barrels and don't have the internal ridges. The Lortone barrel bottoms always seem to wear out faster than the sidewalls anyway, so I am not sure if the barrel thickness is a huge deal. I have no data on whether or not the internal ridges make a huge difference at this size. You can use the Lortone barrels on the HP tumblers when you need a replacement barrel (or if you already have one). Either way, they both seem like good machines to me. Every machine will eventually need maintenance or repairs, even the best ones. |
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dillonf
fully equipped rock polisher
Hounding and tumbling
Member since February 2022
Posts: 1,622
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Post by dillonf on Oct 18, 2023 17:48:15 GMT -5
I have several lortones. They are a tried and true reliable machine that is easy to maintain.
That said the HPs are merely lortone clones with a different motor and barrel. The smooth round barrel on the HP will provide more aggressive/efficient tumbling action (I was corrected on my misconception of this a while back) particularly during coarse grind. The one unknown you face is that HPs haven't been around long enough to know how reliable their motors are - and that is the most expensive part to replace on these types of machines. Either way I am sure you will get a good tumbler!
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hypodactylus
spending too much on rocks
Member since July 2021
Posts: 479
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Post by hypodactylus on Oct 18, 2023 18:22:34 GMT -5
The smooth round barrel on the HP will provide more aggressive/efficient tumbling action (I was corrected on my misconception of this a while back) particularly during coarse grind.
I am curious to know the logic behind the claim that the smooth barrel (without internal ribbing/shape) would be more aggressive/efficient.
I have no data one way or another, but I assume some internal bumps would prevent rocks from simply sliding along the inner circumference of the barrel, which could potentially cause flattened sides on rocks. However, that seems to happen in barrels with 'shaped' interiors anyway.
Other than that, I wouldn't expect any difference in the grind as long as the barrel is filled appropriately and the rocks are tumbling (not sliding).
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dillonf
fully equipped rock polisher
Hounding and tumbling
Member since February 2022
Posts: 1,622
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Post by dillonf on Oct 18, 2023 19:47:26 GMT -5
The smooth round barrel on the HP will provide more aggressive/efficient tumbling action (I was corrected on my misconception of this a while back) particularly during coarse grind.
I am curious to know the logic behind the claim that the smooth barrel (without internal ribbing/shape) would be more aggressive/efficient.
I have no data one way or another, but I assume some internal bumps would prevent rocks from simply sliding along the inner circumference of the barrel, which could potentially cause flattened sides on rocks. However, that seems to happen in barrels with 'shaped' interiors anyway.
Other than that, I wouldn't expect any difference in the grind as long as the barrel is filled appropriately and the rocks are tumbling (not sliding).
This was the thread forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/101177/theory-looking-input |
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KA7EII
off to a rocking start
Member since February 2014
Posts: 6 
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Post by KA7EII on Oct 19, 2023 8:20:00 GMT -5
Got my first rock tumbler when I was a kid in 1972. It was a Tumble Stones deluxe double barrel tumbler by Rapco which came from the Sears Christmas catalog. That thing was noisy and only lasted for about a year. In 1974 I got the Lortone QT6 (label on the machine says "Lortone Gem Sparkle - The Carborundum Company". Had the motor die last month. Just installed a replacement motor and Its rolling again. Over the years I have had to replace the barrel 6 times and replace the drive belt twice. Other than that, just keeping the machine clean and using sewing machine oil sparingly on the shaft bearings once a month has kept this tumbler going. This tumbler is used exclusively for coarse grinding.
In 1992 I got the Lortone 33B and it also has been an excellent machine. It has had a few belt replacements, one motor replacement and all the bearings replaced once. The only complaint I have on this tumbler is that the little nylon washers on each side where the barrel lid rubs will wear out. Lortone sent me replacement nylon washers and I had to drill out the rivet that holds one of them on. This machine is used for fine and polish stages. One barrel for fine grit and one for the polish. This machine is fairly quiet while running.
Also got the Lortone 45c about 10 years ago. It has had a couple drive belt changes and the bearings replaced once. I use this one for medium grit. It is not as noisy as the big QT6.
I would not hesitate buying a Lortone tumbler. The 33B would be a good choice if only get one machine. I would save one barrel for the polish stage only. You might want to get one extra barrel just for the polish stage and use the other two for the coarse, medium and fine stages.
Good luck with your decision and I hope you enjoy the rock tumbling hobby.
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Emmeline
off to a rocking start
Member since October 2023
Posts: 5
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Post by Emmeline on Oct 19, 2023 12:00:16 GMT -5
I was about to recommend a bigger tumbler, but that is definitely not good for the hands and fingers... Vibration is good for them though! Also, I just started tumbling this month--after buying the mini sonic, all the start-up stuff, and soon a rotary, my pretty limited, fixed income is giving so much side-eye. But also, the dozens of bags of rocks in my apartment are begging for me to buy all the tumblers that I want  |
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Emmeline
off to a rocking start
Member since October 2023
Posts: 5
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Post by Emmeline on Oct 19, 2023 12:05:44 GMT -5
And thank you everyone! Your discussions were very helpful. I'm probably going to go with the double 3# barrel HP, but want to still think on it. Have a great week!
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