1Mark
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since November 2004
Posts: 91
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Post by 1Mark on Nov 26, 2004 20:09:54 GMT -5
It's been getting into the mid 20's here in S.E. Michigan at night, but I'm still running my tumblers out in the garage. How cold does it have to get before y'all call it quits? My Thumlers model B doesn't seem to mind at all so far, but one of my 3# C.E. machines is slowing down a bit. The Thumblers could probably run until the load starts to freeze.
Shalom, Mark
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WarrenA
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since November 2003
Posts: 1,530
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Post by WarrenA on Nov 26, 2004 20:17:13 GMT -5
get some 2" hard styrofoam (yellow or blue) and make a box for the tumblers to be in all it needs to be is duct taped together just set the lid on it and put a thermometor inside it and just watch the temp for awhile I tumbled just about all last year inside the garage the heat from the motors was enough and believe it or not the temp inside the tumblers was more than the box
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shorty
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2004
Posts: 122
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Post by shorty on Nov 26, 2004 20:18:13 GMT -5
hi mark you can tumble all winter if you like.. the water wont freze as long as you keep them moving. but you mite
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Post by docone31 on Nov 26, 2004 20:33:34 GMT -5
Shorty is right. As long as there is motion, water won't freeze. I have read a lot of theories on this and I comprehend a lot of it. I cannot really explain why except, unless the tumblers are in an extremely cold environment, and they slow, you should be ok. Insulation using the motor heat might be in order to prevent slowing down under extreme conditions. A box, with or without a light in it. A styrofoam cooler placed over the tumbler. You could try glycerine in the water as an antifreeze. Alcohol would expand creating pressure. Propylene Glycol might foam. That I am not sure. As it gets cooler, the water becomes more dense. THis could affect the tumbing action. I live in Floriduh, and This is a situation I do not expect to encounter. When I lived in Alaska I was too far from a power source to worry about tumbling. I would really love to learn about additives, and the effect of cold on the tumbling action. Heck, here we do not even bury our water pipes. The few days of 32 degrees, it isn't cold long enough to produce frost.
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Post by sandsman1 on Nov 26, 2004 20:53:31 GMT -5
if it gets that cold take a hand full of rock salt and throw it in the barrels if it will melt ice im sure it will stop them from freezin
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Post by Original Admin on Nov 26, 2004 21:04:26 GMT -5
Motion and Water.
Motion is the key - no ice crystals can form (or its a tough job for them anyway) when the mass is on the move.
One tip I saw once was to place a tennis ball on ones back garden pond so as to keep the ice from forming as it moved around in the wind.
Another "solution" may be as sands says - to stick some salt in the barrel. That gives you another few degrees (is it 11?) - but if it gets that cold so the contents freeze - i'd be more worried about the water pipes in the loft than the tumbler!
Motor wise.
The motors keep themselves warm - I ran mine last winter at -9 some nights. No problems encoutered.
Yeah - polystyrene covering - helps with the noise too.
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shorty
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2004
Posts: 122
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Post by shorty on Nov 26, 2004 21:11:19 GMT -5
hi again you mite want to put some thiner oil on the rolers like three and one or ten whate
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1Mark
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since November 2004
Posts: 91
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Post by 1Mark on Nov 26, 2004 22:01:35 GMT -5
Thanks folks. Already switched to 3-in-1 oil since the heavier stuff gets too viscous in the cold. I knew that the tumbling would lower the freezing point -- a combination of heat from friction and mechanically keeping the crystals from forming as Andy mentioned -- but I figured there'd be some point at which things would freeze. (Well, there IS -- but from what you all have said it's not likely to get that cold in my garage.) Having seen waterfalls freeze solid, I figured I'd better find out about this. But then, you can't add salt or glycerin to a waterfall. Then there's the borax I've got in the load that 's in 80 grit, and sugar in the load with 1000 grit a.o. -- both will lower the freezing point. The third load is just wheatback pennies tumbling in crushed walnut shell. The little C.E. machine will freeze to death before THAT load freezes. Thanks again.
Shalom, Mark
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1Mark
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since November 2004
Posts: 91
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Post by 1Mark on Nov 26, 2004 22:08:31 GMT -5
get some 2" hard styrofoam (yellow or blue) and make a box for the tumblers to be in all it needs to be is duct taped together just set the lid on it and put a thermometor inside it and just watch the temp for awhile I tumbled just about all last year inside the garage the heat from the motors was enough and believe it or not the temp inside the tumblers was more than the box Thanks Warren. That might be a good idea for the C.E. tumblers since one of them is struggling a bit even at 30 degrees F. Cleaned the belt and the pulleys, but it didn't seem to help. That's the machine that ran for a while with the pulleys mis-aligned, and the motor pulley got chewed up pretty good. I 'd sure like to find some metal pulleys for the C.E.'s... Shalom, Mark
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Post by Original Admin on Nov 26, 2004 22:12:38 GMT -5
3-in-one.
Stuff of the gods for sure for tumblers.
Nylon bearings and steel bearings - at the requirements of a tumbler its perfect.
I'd say keep replenishing it though - it tends to thicken up with debris fairly quickly - depends on your machines at the end of the day - but its good stuff.
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Post by Cher on Nov 27, 2004 10:06:58 GMT -5
Hey Mark ... No basement?
I wouldn't even attempt to run my tumblers all winter in my garage. Since winter is now "officially" here, I can safely hybernate, and still run my tumblers in the basement. Hopefully I have enough crushed rock to carry me through to spring. And for those who are going to tell me it's not official until the winter solstice .... not where I live. When it's all white outside, it's winter and it "officially" began here today.
Cher
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MichiganRocks
starting to spend too much on rocks
"I wasn't born to follow."
Member since April 2007
Posts: 154
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Post by MichiganRocks on Nov 27, 2004 10:24:46 GMT -5
Based on the view out my back door, winter arrived here on Thanksgiving day! I have no doubt that the tumblers would run okay in my garage, but I don't think that I would run so well. I'll stick with my basement where I don't have to keep moving to keep from freezing. Ron
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Post by Cher on Nov 27, 2004 10:28:25 GMT -5
LOL Ron ... You are so right! I totally forgot about that side of the equation. No kidding, I would not want to be outside in the cold, playing with icy water to change / recharge the barrels and clean rocks. That would just totally take all the fun out of it.
Cher
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Post by connrock on Nov 27, 2004 11:13:10 GMT -5
Hi Mark,,, I just read "somewhere" that adding RV anti freeze thickens the slurry enough to slow the action down so the rocks won't crack and chip. I've never tried it so i'm not suggesting you do but it is a thought. The reason i'm a little cautious about you using it in your situation is that I had an experience many years ago with a water soluble hydraulic oil. The oil was getting slightly thicker after running it for a while so I added water to thin it out.Instead of thining it got thicker.I added more water and it got like mayonaise!I was stumped so I contacted a chemist and he laughed!! The way it works is that you have one molecule of oil and the water molecules gather all around it.By adding more water you have also added more water molecules to gather around that one oil molecule.This thickens the oil instead of thining it. Picture it this way. Take a shallow cardboard box and put 3 tennis balls in it each being surrounded by several baseballs until there is no room in the box.Now add 10 more baseballs!! It's getting kind of crowded in there isn't it?? I believe this is what happens when you use the anti freeze in the tumbler. Another thought "might" be to use only anti freeze. Dunno!!Never tried that either but it may eat up the liner !! As for oiling the motor bearings my thoughts are that the motor really runs pretty hot and the heat is transfered to the bearings.By using the styrafoam cover you will trap a lot of that heat as well so i'm kind of iffy about using thicker oul. The thinner 3 in one oil is a must on the roller bearings though.Even that oil may get too cold to work properly,,,,,dunno that either!!LOL Some help I am!! Dunno anything!!LOL Tom
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1Mark
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since November 2004
Posts: 91
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Post by 1Mark on Nov 27, 2004 16:26:03 GMT -5
... You could bring a big crew with shovels though!
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1Mark
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since November 2004
Posts: 91
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Post by 1Mark on Nov 27, 2004 16:27:48 GMT -5
Tom -- pretty good reply for somebody who doesn't know anything!
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Post by connrock on Nov 27, 2004 21:29:00 GMT -5
Sometimes my "memory banks" run full throttle but other times,,,,,,, What was I saying?? Tom
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Foreverdown
having dreams about rocks
Member since August 2004
Posts: 66
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Post by Foreverdown on Nov 29, 2004 11:02:26 GMT -5
Hi Mark,
I purchased a CE tumbler, 2 - 3 lbs barrels, back in Augist and I have been having trouble with belts. My original belt lasted about 3 weeks. I searched locally and in what I had on hand to replace the belt or make one myself. I found a vacuum cleaner belt at Walmart that worked for a while, but started to slip and I couldn't adjust the motor anymore. Anyway, the vacuum cleaner belt wasn't riding correctly and ate up most of the drive pulley.
Someone on the board mentioned using a Lortone 33B belt. I ordered a belt and the motor pulley with fan for the model 33B from the Rock Shed. Total cost plus shipping was $6.40. The only problem I had was the CE shaft is a larger diameter than the Lortone shaft. So, I had to drill out the shaft hole on the metal pulley to accomodate the larger shaft. The pulley is made out of aluminum so the effort to drill a new hole is minimal. Once that was done and mounted, it was good to go.
Wow!! What a difference!! The tumbler turns better than it ever did, even empty. I noticed that the rpms is a slight bit higher than the original setup, but no problem there. Also, I can fill both barrells to 3lbs. each and the machine works great, no slippage. I have checked the blet several times and have not noticed any wear or obvious problems.
For $6.40 you can't beat updating your CE tumbler. I am actually thinking about getting more CE tumblers and redoing the drive pulleys and belts. Still cheaper than a Lortone... ;D
[glow=blue,2,300]Brett[/glow]
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1Mark
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since November 2004
Posts: 91
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Post by 1Mark on Nov 30, 2004 22:40:20 GMT -5
Thanks Brett -- your post is right on time. The drive pulley on one of my C.E.'s finally died, and I just spent some time in my garage hunting for the right mix of parts to make a replacement... no luck, but I have a good idea of what I'll need to epoxy it back together. Since I was only breaking in ceramic media in that load I don't need to be in a rush. I'll go ahead and order 2 Lortone pulleys and replace them on both machines.
As for belts, go to E-Bay and search for "rock tumbler belts" - I got 5 for 4 bucks plus shipping, and they seem to bite better than the stock C.E. belts. I'm not sure if your 2 barrel machine uses the same belt though...
Shalom, Mark
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Tellfamily
spending too much on rocks
Member since September 2004
Posts: 476
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Post by Tellfamily on Dec 1, 2004 6:52:06 GMT -5
The belt for both C/E tumblers are the same. I also have used the big o-ring off the lid of a Thumbler's tumbler 3lb. barrel.
I do use RV Antifreeze in my tumblers, but not without some water. I use about 70% RV with 30% water. Right now we are getting down to single digits and my tumblers are in the garage. The mixture with RV antifreeze is good for about -15 to -20 .
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