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Post by Michael John on Jun 16, 2007 14:18:28 GMT -5
I finally decided on a vibrating tumbler and bought it. It processes up to five pounds, and looks pretty heavy duty. I only paid about $50 for it on eBay, and it should be here some time next week. Here's a pic:  Now all I have to do is figure-out all the "magic powders" to put in it! LOL |
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cleo12797
spending too much on rocks
Member since April 2007
Posts: 279
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Post by cleo12797 on Jun 16, 2007 15:27:12 GMT -5
Good luck, Michaeljohn. Let me know how you like it.
Ang
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Post by Michael John on Jun 16, 2007 16:22:33 GMT -5
Thank you! It's going to be hard to decide what to tumble first!
It's the "magic powders" that have me a bit confused. It seems that some work good with some rocks, some work better with others. I have all different types and hardnesses of stones, so I'm not sure what I'll need. I also don't know if a vibrating tumbler has different "magic powder" requirements than a rotary tumbler. Guess I'll just do some searching and studying here, which will probably answer my questions.
I even thought about trying sand, as posted by someone recently. I really like the earth-friendly aspects of the idea. I already have sand which I could sift and rinse "clean", and I could dump out the used slurries in my yard with zero ecological impact.
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Post by Jack ( Yorkshire) on Jun 17, 2007 0:09:03 GMT -5
Hi MJ,
I think sand is no good as it is to soft and not abrasive enough
It would takes months to do what Carb' Grit does in days/ week's
with your vibe DONT put much water in in fact only wash the rocks put in wet and add grit a few squirts of water as requires ,
It also helps to put a few soap flakes in to get the grit to cover (stick to) the rocks
A vibe is a great machine I use my Lot "O" from stage 2 ( 220 grit) and its fantastic.
have fun
jack
Yorkshire UK
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Post by Michael John on Jun 19, 2007 16:23:34 GMT -5
The Ooops truck just delivered my tumbler. Still gotta get me some "magic powders" though.
I read the little pamphlet that came with the tumbler, but following their vague instructions would undoubtedly be a recipe for disaster. I need something like "Vibratory Tumblers For Dummies" LOL.
Okay, starting from step one ... what do I put in the tumbler, and how much? Do I just weigh-out 5 pounds of rocks, add a "magic powder" and water, and let 'r rip, or is there more too it?
Is a "tumbling media" necessary, or is that just filler for when you want to do a smaller load? If a certain amount of media MUST be used, how much and what kind?
How much water? A cup? A quart?
I've read that you have to check on your batch like every 12 hours and add water as necessary. Ummm ... how does a noob know how much is necessary?
I went through my collection yesterday, to see what I want to use for my first batch. I know that a batch should be comprised of stones of similar hardness, so I decided to go for 6 to 7 on the Mohs scale. I'm going to do mostly gem silica, but I'm also going to throw-in some Rhodochrosite and a couple of small pieces of Sugilite (not gel).
So, given what I want to tumble, which "magic powders" do I need? I gather that some work better than others, depending what you're tumbling, especially the final polishing stages. And how much of it do I need - how many pounds of each?
Most of the rough that I've selected for this batch is ... pretty rough. Since I don't yet have ANY lapidary tools, could I use other common tools to try to get my stones into reasonable shape before tumbling? Any recommendations? I was thinking of:
Pliers: to lop-off undesireable chunks
Hand files: to smooth some sharp corners and jagged edges
Aluminum oxide sand paper on a vibrating palm sander: to further smooth corners and jagged edges
Before trying these things, I figured I'd ask before doing damage.
Anywho ... any help and advice that you can give me would be greatly appreciated.
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fossilman
spending too much on rocks
Member since April 2007
Posts: 256
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Post by fossilman on Jun 19, 2007 17:48:54 GMT -5
don't throw in the rhodochrosite with anything that hard if you want to find it at the end of the tumble. It's VERY soft. Close to calcite soft. Tumble it with soft stuff like dolomite, calcite, etc. Rhodonite is the hard rhodo.
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Post by Michael John on Jun 19, 2007 19:16:08 GMT -5
I thought Rhodochrosite was hard stuff ... didn't test it. I'll save it for a softer batch. I have some quartz, quartzite, and quartzrock that I can include in this batch, then.
If I had a big saw I could slice-up my Russian rhodonite. I have a rare piece that has a stripe of charoite running through it!
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Post by Jack ( Yorkshire) on Jun 20, 2007 3:26:23 GMT -5
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Post by catmandewe on Jun 20, 2007 8:53:19 GMT -5
You really need a rotary tumbler for the first stage.
The tumbling media would be your grit, if you want to polish like brass shell casings you would use walnut shells or corn cob, to polish rocks you need grit.
Find some river/creek rocks that are already round/smooth and practice on those, for the really rough stuff you need a rotary tumbler to smooth them out.
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Post by Michael John on Jun 20, 2007 15:56:02 GMT -5
I'll get a rotary eventually, but right now I want to vibe some of the material I already have. I don't want to tumble it because that shapes the stones randomly. I don't want to start with river rock or driveway stones because I don't want to waste grit, and I would probably need different grit for them than the harder material that I want to polish. I asked about using some basic tools to get the stones close enough to what I want for vibe-tumbling.
I'm trying to get some basic instruction on how to use this thing ... what grits I need, how much grit to put in, how often to change the grit, how much water, how to know when and how much water to add, whether and when to use Borax, whether and when to use soap flakes, et cetera. I don't want to needlessly waste $50 worth of powders experimenting, which is why I've asked for a bit of guidance to get me started.
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fossilman
spending too much on rocks
Member since April 2007
Posts: 256
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Post by fossilman on Jun 20, 2007 20:45:41 GMT -5
remember, you can reuse lapidary polishes. Check some other threads on this.
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Post by Jack ( Yorkshire) on Jun 21, 2007 3:18:01 GMT -5
Hi Micheal John, Grit to use is Silicon Carbide what a lot of grinding wheels are made of . Stage 2 220grit 6 Tea spoons run 48 Hours stage 3 500 grit 3 Tea spoons run 24 hours stage 4 1000 or 1200 1/2 Tea spoon " 24 hrs pre polish Tripoly 1/2 Tea spoon " 24 Hrs Polish Rapid 61 1/2 Tea spoon " 24 Hrs Usual washing and burnishing This is for a Lot "O" 4 1/2 lb Vibe. Now have a go as regards wasting grit !!! the amounts are so small AND they work These Vibes ar SO aggressive its unbelivable, Just have a go Mike and see. I never re use this amount polish, any way how long would it take to distill 1/2 a teaspoon of polishout of the washing's  ?( I do re use the rotary tumbler polish) Jack Yorkshire UK |
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Post by Michael John on Jun 21, 2007 4:41:33 GMT -5
Spot on! That's what I needed! I didn't realize it took so little grit and polish! A pound of each will keep me going for a long time!
You started at Stage Two. Is Stage One 120 grit? If so, how much and for how long?
Now ... the water. Am I correct in understanding that all I need to do is put all of the stones in a bucket of water, scoop them out by hand and place them in the tumbler? No more water than that needed?
Then I check the lot twice a day, just adding a small bit of water to keep it moist enough to keep everything from sticking together?
Am I correct that Rapid 61 is aluminum oxide? Can I use ANY aluminum oxide, or is there something special anout the rapid 61?
The "usual washing and burnishing" is not something I fully understand (understatement), which is why I was asking about borax and soap flakes.
By washing, I assume you mean thorough rinsing between grits. Could you please explain the proper procedure for doing that? Do you use soap flakes when doing that? OH ... and my assumption is that "soap flakes" are made by shaving slivers from a bar of Ivory soap with a knife ... is that correct?
I'm assuming that "burnishing" is the final polish. Is that right? Is there something special I should know about this stage?
Where does borax come in? When do I use it, and how much?
Sorry about all of the questions, but I'm really hoping to avoid as many mistakes as possible, and learn how to do this quickly. I promise that once I get a few batches under my belt and some good results, I'll write a "Vibe Tumbling For Dummies" article for the poor noobs who come along after me.
Earlier this evening, my Old Lady told me that she wants to get me a rotary tumbler for my birthday which is in a couple of weeks. I was surprised that she was listening enough to know I want one! That made me very happy.
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Post by Jack ( Yorkshire) on Jun 22, 2007 2:35:43 GMT -5
hi Mike,
I will try to help
NO ! stage one I use 80 grit I think in USA you can get a mix of 60 / 90 or something to start stage one,
As I said before I rotary tumble up to stage 2. I have put in Pre forms at stage 2 this works out well as others have said to be able to get a good sharp angle as well as a good polish. rotary rubs of the edge.
So I hope "She" remembers your Birthday present A good rotary Tumbler !!!!!!! it will come in Handy for the the first stage.
Water,
Yes thats right I was told By Conrock put water in the barel first add stones carefully (water cussions the stones stopping chipping/ fracturing ) Then turn the container upside down to drain all the water out, add soap flakes run machine for a min' and add as running the grit this will coat all the rocks
If you havent used a vibe check every 2 hours or so
In a couple of hours you will see a big change as the grit rubs down the rocks and it becomes sticky add a spray or 2 of water or if realy sticky 1 or2 Tea spoons of water you DONT want the rocks stuck together nether do you want all the grit washed off the rocks , this is the critical ballance you have to get, after awhile you will know how long to leave them and as to how much water to add
I dont Know whats in Rapid 61 Conrock sent me a tube from USA others will be able to advise you on this,
Washing and Burnishing.
This is a subject a lot of people have their own Ideas of .
In Rotary tumbling I wash after each stage thourly, and run water through them in a bowl
then add soap flakes (Yes your Ivory is what USA use ) 1/2 tea spoon and a Tea spoon of borax run for 24 hours (in rotary)
This is the Burnish stage which rubs the rocks together as well as getting all the rock dust out of cracks and semi polishes them in later stages.
You will be amazed at the colour of the water after 24hours !!
At stage2 I add plastic pellets to help cussion the rocks as well as transport grit to get into the concave's on the rocks , When washing put all the barrel contents in a basin add water stir round and all the platic pellets will float pour through a coulnder to collect them then carefull wash rocks.
DONT PUT THE WASTE WATER DOWN THE DRAINS it will set like concrete
I run these pellets right through to polishing so the "after each stage washing is very important to me to get every speck of grit out"
At the prepolish stage I give the Washing/Burnishing stage 48 Hours
Tom "Conrock has a "Vibe Polishing for Dummies" sheet , Probally he could send you one , This is where I got my help from , He sent me 4 pages of notes when I first started !!!
I hope these are of use to you any question please feel free to ask
I hope you experiment and find your own "Recepie" it is a lot quicker with a vibe and experiments come out that bit quicker adds more interest,
And talking of experements and polishing in general Please keep notes on your barrels "To be able to look back is to make less mistakes in the future"
We all are delighted to help any one who needs help , AS we once were, I gave up polishing for 18 months till I read a article by James. which started me off again.
Jack
Yorkshire
UK
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Post by Michael John on Jun 22, 2007 18:39:58 GMT -5
Excellent Jack. Thank you. I think I've just about got all of the info I need to take a stab at this, now.
I remember seeing a chart around the forum somewhere that tells what type of polishing compound to use for various rocks. I'll hunt that down and paste it into a Wordpad document, so that I'll have it for reference. I might just go ahead and buy several polishes, so that I have them on hand. More than likely, they'll all be used eventually anyway.
So, I should use plastic pellets to add cushioning, in order to cut-down on chipping and breakeage? The capacity is 5 pounds, and I plan to weigh-out my rocks to about 4.5 pounds per load, so I don't stress the machine. How much pellets should I use per load? A cup? Two cups? I read (somewhere) that tile spacers can be used, and I have a lot of them ... would they be okay to use for this purpose?
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Post by Jack ( Yorkshire) on Jun 23, 2007 0:40:10 GMT -5
Hi Michel ,
I just add about a 1/2 cup , But the last 2 loads in my vibe I didnt bother ,
I havent used tile spacers But others have tryed them and found them ok
It is not that important unless you have Ammy and easily fractured rock and then again some dont use it even then
(In Rotary tumblers it is more important.)
Fill your vibe up to the top and keep a few stones (fillers) to keep it that way . the vibration rotate's the stones , and this is also a good indicator of the amount of water you need to add or not if they are dull and slugish add water , if a shiney grey and rotating dont add , they are OK
you need a bit of time to set the Vibe up, to know your machine and to get it working right ,and used to this adding a spray of water or not,
In stage 2 is not to be taken lightly, I made a mistake I didnt look at the vibe often enough and it stuck a load to the bottom of the barrel!!
Fill your Rotary 2/3 to 3/4 full to allow a sliding motion to take place.
have a go and see how you get on Experiance is the best teacher,
But with a Vibe one of the great advantages is the little amount of grit used, A mistake is not that so much of a financial disaster.
Jack
Yorkshire UK
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fossilman
spending too much on rocks
Member since April 2007
Posts: 256
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Post by fossilman on Jun 23, 2007 15:26:37 GMT -5
One warning using a vibratory tumber. CHECK SOFT STONES OFTEN! One of the first batches I ever put in was 20 pounds of rainbow fluorite from Mexico, the superb old green/blue/violet/clear stuff. I accidentally put in 120 grit instead of 220, and let it run for a couple of days before checking it. There was a solid plug of fused concrete in the tumbler with lots of nice colors in it. I still have that expensive chunk to remind me to check the soft stones often.
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Post by Michael John on Jun 23, 2007 15:51:15 GMT -5
Thanks guys! I'll make sure that I check it often, and I'll make sure that it stays adequately watered. The kids will bugging me to see them all the time anyway, so I doubt I'll have the opportunity to forget about it.
This coming week, I'm going to take a little trip up to a place near here called Trout Creek Canyon. I have a feeling that I'll find some nice river rock up there. Of course, I'll be on the lookout for anything and everything else, too.
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karenfh
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since November 2006
Posts: 1,495
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Post by karenfh on Jun 24, 2007 0:45:58 GMT -5
Hi, MJ. I just bought a 4 lb. Lot-O, and I can scan the directions that came w/ and email them, if that will help. I just put my first batch back in polish, because I wasn't happy with the shine. I'm still experimenting, too! Good luck.
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Post by Michael John on Jun 24, 2007 6:15:39 GMT -5
Thanks, Karen, that would be great! I'd offer to reciprocate but the Chicago Electric instructions are pretty much useless.
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