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Post by parfive on Jun 28, 2012 0:05:31 GMT -5
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Post by jakesrocks on Jun 28, 2012 0:18:32 GMT -5
Oh yeh Rich. Blame the gun owners. Obama will be so proud of you. Gotta blame something, and gun owners are always convenient for the bleeding heart anti gunners. Must all be Democraps writing those reports.
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Post by helens on Jun 28, 2012 0:39:55 GMT -5
Ok, that's a bit over the top... if that were true (firing guns causing sparks that start wildfires), you'd think they'd have just posted an editorial warning in the newspaper about it, or signs at ranges, and not make a big political statement about it. Further, how the heck does a bullet ricochet in GRASS? Common sense tells you that if you shoot at a target, it hits the target, there's no fire. You shoot a target and MISS the target and if you hit a tree and it ricochets, the spark is on the TREE or ROCK, which isn't generally covered with dry grass. How does a bullet ricochet off of grass? Grass can't stop a bullet until the velocity is expended. I don't know how gun ranges out west are, but the outdoor ones here have a big dirt hill shaped in a U that bullets sink into. We have outdoor ranges in public parks where people picnic on the other side of the berm, ride bicycles, hike, how's the bullet going to get around a 6' dirt wall? Unless you are hunting, why would anyone shoot bullets that can ricochet anywhere? A rifle bullet can travel 2 miles and KILL someone, and ballistics can ID that gun. Like anyone who shoots doesn't know that. That's the most bogus excuse for making a political statement I can think of.
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Post by parfive on Jun 28, 2012 0:48:26 GMT -5
Take it up with Republican Gov. Gary Herbert, Jake. I couldn’t care less.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 8:29:20 GMT -5
Helen - This is not Flat Florida. People go into the hills and the hill is the backdrop. I can go to a thousand places around here and shoot without having to worry about hitting someone.
The thing is, The chance of a bullet causing a spark is incredibly slim. If the bullet is entirely made out of lead the only way it could make a spark is to knock one rock against another. Lead is too soft to cause a spark no matter what it hits, A steel jacketed bullet could possibly cause a spark but the circumstances would have to be absolutely perfect and it would be the same kind of spark that you see when you are cutting a stone. Very short lived.
The movies show a lot of sparks when the bad guys are shooting it out with the good guys and it is a total farce. Especially with pistol rounds because most of them are made up entirely of lead.
I am not a TV watcher but there is a show where they try to prove if things are true or false. If I knew what the name of the show is I would write to them to see if they will prove this issue true or false. I can not believe that any of these fires were caused by shooting guns. Now I can believe that people out shooting could be careless with cigarettes because a lot of smokers just toss the butts down or out the window of the vehicle. That is why you see so many black burned spots along roads. I have been smoking for 47 years but I am 100 percent positive that I have never caused a fire but a lot of smokers do not give a damn or are stupid when they toss their butts.
Guns get blamed for a bunch of things that they are not responsible for. Send those same people to the hills to fly kites and you would probably have the same number of fires. Jim
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Post by jakesrocks on Jun 28, 2012 9:44:21 GMT -5
Actually Rich, I don't give a damn who wrote that so called report. I'm an independent, remember ?
Along with what Jim has said, about the only other way a gun could start a fire is if it were a black powder gun. I could see the possibility, slim as it might be, of the smoldering wad behind the lead bullet causing a fire if it happened to land in dry brush. Not too many hunters using black powder guns for hunting these days, tho some people do still use them. The wad only flies a very short distance before falling to the ground. The person firing that gun could, and if they are a responsible gun owner, would be able to put the fire out before it had time to spread.
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,709
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Post by Fossilman on Jun 28, 2012 10:27:36 GMT -5
No way in hell could a rifle spark a fire......!!!!!
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,709
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Post by Fossilman on Jun 28, 2012 10:28:13 GMT -5
Couple of good rains to wash them off, and you should be tripping over those Montana moss agates. Going fossil hunting my friend...... ;D
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Post by helens on Jun 28, 2012 11:20:42 GMT -5
Helen - This is not Flat Florida. People go into the hills and the hill is the backdrop. I can go to a thousand places around here and shoot without having to worry about hitting someone. The thing is, The chance of a bullet causing a spark is incredibly slim. If the bullet is entirely made out of lead the only way it could make a spark is to knock one rock against another. Lead is too soft to cause a spark no matter what it hits, A steel jacketed bullet could possibly cause a spark but the circumstances would have to be absolutely perfect and it would be the same kind of spark that you see when you are cutting a stone. Very short lived. The movies show a lot of sparks when the bad guys are shooting it out with the good guys and it is a total farce. Especially with pistol rounds because most of them are made up entirely of lead. I am not a TV watcher but there is a show where they try to prove if things are true or false. If I knew what the name of the show is I would write to them to see if they will prove this issue true or false. I can not believe that any of these fires were caused by shooting guns. Now I can believe that people out shooting could be careless with cigarettes because a lot of smokers just toss the butts down or out the window of the vehicle. That is why you see so many black burned spots along roads. I have been smoking for 47 years but I am 100 percent positive that I have never caused a fire but a lot of smokers do not give a damn or are stupid when they toss their butts. Guns get blamed for a bunch of things that they are not responsible for. Send those same people to the hills to fly kites and you would probably have the same number of fires. Jim Exactly Jim! No one's going target shooting with expensive bullets... they're going to use the cheapest lead target bullets they can buy, so how would that cause a fire ever? The cigarettes are a definite possibility tho. I think people today are way too happy to complain about guns. I see the argument that 'guns kill people'. Well you don't see anyone saying we should ban cars, and you can run someone over with one, back up over them, and run them over again with a car! And I know for a fact far people get killed with guns than cars every year:).
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
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Post by Sabre52 on Jun 28, 2012 18:12:52 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I'm actually with Rich on this one. Too many dumbass folks out shooting in the grass these days. Some of the really cheap ammo is military stuff for AK's and such that might even be steel jacketed. Up where my old ranch was, the ground was full of quartz and any steel projectile could knock against quartz rocks and make sparks. I would guess, even lead bullets could smack quartz rock together if struck thus creating a spark. The chances for a single shot might seem slim but realize a guy with an AK or other semi-auto might crank off several hundred rounds thus increasing the odds a bit. I would also wonder about ejected cases. Ever have an ejected case drop down your neck while shooting and you'd wonder if that was hot enough to start a fire in grass. Sure can scald your neck a bit. Funny thing was, most the fires up at our ranch though, were started by steel mower blades hitting quartz during annual fire clearance work.
Back in southern California though, it was usually gulldanged gangbangers with their AK's and 9mm's. Gun's weren't legal anyway so they wouldn't use a regular range and instead would just go back in the hills and blaze away with cheap steel full metal jacket ammo. Tula ammo for example, a Walley world cheapo, has a zinc and steel jacketed bullet. Responsible shooters always shoot at ranges or at cleared areas like quarries and such where bullets will not start fires.
Gives anti-gunners an excuse to complain about gun owners but most gun owners are responsible and cautious. It's not really fair to compare all gun owners with the few dumbasses who mishandle firearms......Mel
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Post by helens on Jun 28, 2012 20:02:23 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I'm actually with Rich on this one. Too many dumbass folks out shooting in the grass these days. Some of the really cheap ammo is military stuff for AK's and such that might even be steel jacketed. Up where my old ranch was, the ground was full of quartz and any steel projectile could knock against quartz rocks and make sparks. I would guess, even lead bullets could smack quartz rock together if struck thus creating a spark. The chances for a single shot might seem slim but realize a guy with an AK or other semi-auto might crank off several hundred rounds thus increasing the odds a bit. I would also wonder about ejected cases. Ever have an ejected case drop down your neck while shooting and you'd wonder if that was hot enough to start a fire in grass. Sure can scald your neck a bit. Funny thing was, most the fires up at our ranch though, were started by steel mower blades hitting quartz during annual fire clearance work. Back in southern California though, it was usually gulldanged gangbangers with their AK's and 9mm's. Gun's weren't legal anyway so they wouldn't use a regular range and instead would just go back in the hills and blaze away with cheap steel full metal jacket ammo. Tula ammo for example, a Walley world cheapo, has a zinc and steel jacketed bullet. Responsible shooters always shoot at ranges or at cleared areas like quarries and such where bullets will not start fires. Gives anti-gunners an excuse to complain about gun owners but most gun owners are responsible and cautious. It's not really fair to compare all gun owners with the few dumbasses who mishandle firearms......Mel Isn't that illegal? Shooting 'in the hills' with semi autos? If it's already illegal, how do you make it more illegal?
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blessed
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2010
Posts: 329
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Post by blessed on Jun 28, 2012 20:50:02 GMT -5
Semi autos are legal. My son was shooting his gun on my property, using cheap full metal jacket ammo. He started a fire and he does not smoke. James
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 21:03:58 GMT -5
There is the proof. Need to go back to lead only bullets and poison the environment. Choices, choices, choices. Jim
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Post by helens on Jun 28, 2012 21:59:22 GMT -5
Good grief:(.
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
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Post by Sabre52 on Jun 28, 2012 22:10:27 GMT -5
Helen, yes it was illegal where they were shooting because it was on public lands closed to shooting. The semi-auto firearms would have been legal except, in the case I'm thinking of, the shooters were illegals who were using guns they could not legally own in the US. *L*. Only time I've actually seen sparks was shooting steel plates. Odd because as I recall I was shooting jacketed bullets that were copper over lead. Don't know why that would spark but actually the sparks were really large, like almost a shower of sparks. Maybe some kind of dust ignition from vaporizing metal or something. They were really high powered pistol rounds.....Mel
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Post by helens on Jun 28, 2012 22:55:29 GMT -5
I forget how dry it is in the midwest... it's usually 100% humidity here in the summer, so it's probably hard to start a campfire with a whole can of lighter fluid and a lighter here:P. LOL! (before Parfive picks on me, THAT WAS EXAGGERATION ).
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Post by tntmom on Jun 29, 2012 20:48:26 GMT -5
Just letting you guys know.... I heard from Dicky today! He's safe!!!
Here is his quote:
I'm breathing again.... hate worrying about friends!
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Post by helens on Jun 29, 2012 20:57:40 GMT -5
Krystee, that's super good news!!!
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Post by jakesrocks on Jul 1, 2012 21:24:33 GMT -5
Smoke from the Wyo / Mt wildfires. Across the Missouri River, and headed my way.
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Post by NatureNut on Jul 1, 2012 21:39:10 GMT -5
Oh Don, stay safe. Quick, build a moat!
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