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Post by Donnie's Rocky Treasures on Aug 12, 2013 9:45:37 GMT -5
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Post by deb193redux on Aug 12, 2013 10:29:18 GMT -5
Donnie, I thought you said you had a new arbor?
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Post by Donnie's Rocky Treasures on Aug 12, 2013 10:33:00 GMT -5
I do. This is the motor shaft.
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Post by deb193redux on Aug 12, 2013 10:35:18 GMT -5
Yes. I see now. The motor shaft is insulated from the blade by the belt.
Check for clean flanges, but some small runnout is normal. There was a thread a while back that talked about how much was "within spec" for each different diameter blade. Maybe I can find it.
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Post by deb193redux on Aug 12, 2013 10:40:07 GMT -5
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Post by johnjsgems on Aug 12, 2013 10:43:10 GMT -5
If you are using a stamped pulley you could get a pully wobble but as Daniel said it should not cause a blade wobble. Make sure you don't over tighten the blade nut. Use a flange washer 1/6 the blade diameter and only tight enough to keep blade from slipping. If the washer is too small or if you over tighten it stesses the blade center and causes a dishing.
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Post by Donnie's Rocky Treasures on Aug 12, 2013 11:13:20 GMT -5
Thank you Daniel & John. John,I will check the nut. I am using the flange washers that come with the arbor. They are bigger than the ones that were originally with the other arbor. Daniel, I will read that thread. I had to re-drill the holes in the sump for the new arbor to get the shaft to line up. It still isn't centered but I do have enough space bottom & sides so it doesn't rub. I can no longer use the screws to attach the arbor to the sump & had to go with nuts & bolts. Now I am trying to figure out how in the heck I would do any adjustments, if I need to!!! Also the blade didn't fit exactly on the shaft but stopped just short of sliding on all the way against the flange washer. It did, however, tighten down when I screwed the blade nut on. Had a time getting the blade back off of it but with some oil & gently working it I did get it back off & now I can get it off & on no problem. Talk about getting an education!!!!!! I need a new, bigger saw & the money to buy it with!!!!!!!!!
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,555
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Post by jamesp on Aug 12, 2013 11:44:18 GMT -5
I wonder if the pulley on the motor is crooked. The motor shaft looks like a classic case of metal erosion from a wallowed pulley hole. The motor shaft actually is very damaged and deeply gouged. If the motor pulley is wobbling it could set up a serious vibration. Vibration has strange ways of manifesting itself into other areas of a machine. Who has molested that motor shaft Donnie? What are you doing to that poor shaft? ha Donnie- does the motor pulley wobble? Does the motor vibrate when running? Is there any vibration or humming sounds? If the saw shaft(arbor) is vibrating the blade may. If the belt has any thin spots in it where the motor pulley slipped and wore a thin spot in the belt that will make my blade go crazy with vibration. The only job my saw had for years was to split coral for specimen situation. So I polished the 2 halves for display. And I gave Covington hell until I arrived . WE got that saw to cut smooth; I started the polish at 400 grit then 800/1500/3000.
If the motor pulley is wobbling I (personally) would cut the damaged section of shaft off and replace the motor pulley and belt (if old). But the motor mount would have to have new holes to move the motor over. Only if all is feasible.
If you do not have vibration then forget this post!
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Post by Donnie's Rocky Treasures on Aug 12, 2013 12:47:44 GMT -5
James, what you say makes a whole lot of sense to me. I have taken the (new) belt off & checked the pulley while running (no belt attached. Hard to tell if there wobble, kinda looks like it. When running with belt on it definitely looks like there is wobble. The motor moves when running also, hard to describe the motion though, I guess you could call it vibration. What about the the motor shaft, is there supposed to be any in/out play in that? I could do a quick video of it running.
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Post by deb193redux on Aug 12, 2013 13:11:48 GMT -5
a new well balanced shaft on a good motor would not have any visible eccentricity. but this is why "the belt as a buffer" is important.
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Post by Donnie's Rocky Treasures on Aug 12, 2013 13:44:56 GMT -5
Daniel, could you explain that a little more please? The motor is an older motor & I have no idea how old it is. How does the belt act as a buffer?
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Aug 12, 2013 13:59:26 GMT -5
The in and out does not concern. But wobble does. And you can easily measure or 'see' the wobble by turning the pulley slowly and holding a stationary object against the side of the outside of the pulley to see if it moves relative to the fixed pointer. Like stick a magnet on the motor and stick something to the magnet that makes a close gap so you can see if the pulley is warped. . But you got to push in while rotating since you have axial play in your motor shaft. You can see crookedness if you have a small gap. Have you ever had an out of round cab wheel and the cab vibrates against the wheel. You can check the pulley for being out of round too using the pointer/gap trick. I think you would have a noticeable vibration for your blade to be affected though. Like John and Daniel said the belt serves as buffer or damper(actually an isolator). But if that belt has a thin spot wore in it it will sure cause vibration. I like a new belt for your saw. And that motor shaft, is mangulation a word? I do not like the gouges and circumferential wear on that shaft. Look at the edge of it in most of your photos and you can see it. Again, the in and out play(axial play) in the motor shaft does not effect the length of the belt and should not be a concern.
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Post by deb193redux on Aug 12, 2013 14:11:20 GMT -5
yes, maybe a new belt is good. but, without a direct connection, but only via belt, no eccentric shaft rotation of the motor can affect the blade
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Post by Donnie's Rocky Treasures on Aug 12, 2013 14:13:46 GMT -5
Thank you James, I will check for the wobble. And yes, I do believe I do actually have an out of round on my Genie. Started all of a sudden too!
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,555
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Post by jamesp on Aug 12, 2013 18:47:16 GMT -5
Donnie, the big test for the saw blade is simple too. Spin the saw blade by hand with something in the vise that is very close to the diamond segment(outside edge) of saw blade to see if the blade is bent. Or you can paint the blade and then cut a rock to see if the paint gets rubbed off irregularly. Watch the last half of this youtube The arbor looks fine. You had to open the slot for some reason. Main thing is that it is aligned perpendicular to rock carriage. That issue will not effect wobble...
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Aug 12, 2013 19:16:59 GMT -5
Here is another way to measure blade wobble using dial indicator. Probably over kill. I like spinning the blade a watching it open and close a small gap.
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robsrockshop
has rocks in the head
Member since August 2012
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Post by robsrockshop on Aug 12, 2013 22:00:07 GMT -5
The problem, most likely, are your flanges and arbor and particularly how they were assembled. I am assuming you have flanges?
It is difficult to get a straight running blade when the 1st flange that goes onto the shaft isn't actually welded to the shaft and then turned true on a lathe. That is what you call the plant disc. If it's not welded or put into place with a split ring it will take a very small variance where the shaft comes into contact with the plant disc to throw it off balance. Sometimes they can be machined together without welding but then you have to mark the exact spot they were turned and keep it there everytime you change a blade. No sense in doing that. As for the bearings hard telling, probably import is the problem but I can't see if you have pillow blocks, pressed or what.
As far as the motor shaft don't worry about it use it for all it's worth. Take emery cloth or sandpaper to it and lightly oil(like with a cloth don't need a wet belt) if the pulley won't go back on easy. As for the motor play......don't worry. If the motor was really crooked and you had a super tight belt that could strain bearings.
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robsrockshop
has rocks in the head
Member since August 2012
Posts: 715
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Post by robsrockshop on Aug 12, 2013 22:03:48 GMT -5
Would also like to see pics of these flanges that came with the arbor. Also if the blade has to be forced over as you say just to get it onto the shaft that can't possibly help matters. Last but not least a lot of 10" tabletop saws do have wobble how much you can get away with I don't know.
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quartz
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breakin' rocks in the hot sun
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Post by quartz on Aug 12, 2013 22:21:35 GMT -5
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Post by Donnie's Rocky Treasures on Aug 12, 2013 22:36:15 GMT -5
Thank you guys so much! I am really learning a lot. I will take a really good look at the flanges tomorrow & I will take some more pictures as well.
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