Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,487
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Post by Sabre52 on Aug 14, 2013 14:47:05 GMT -5
*L* You know in these days of a debt clock that is always running up and a national debt that is once again, very close to the legal ceiling it is extremely interesting seeing how the Obama administration handles this problem.
The country ran a 98 billion dollar deficit during the month of July so any normal person would think that would make the national debt go up. ( we were 25 billion from the legal ceiling) Before adding this 98 billion, the national debt was standing at 16,699,396,000,000 dollars which would mean this 98 billion would put us over the legal limit. Enter the administration dishonesty brigade.
So, Treasury Secretary Lew has implemented what he calls " the standard set of extraordinary measures" despite the actual increase in the deficit, the national debt has according to him, remained frozen at $16,699,396,000,000 for the last 87 straight days (a period, which of course, includes the July deficit he's reported).
Now, I'll admit I'm not a mathematical genius but, considering these figures make no sense at all, I guess Mr. Lew's " standard set of extraordinary measures" can be defined as "Lying your ass off to the American people". Just another example of the incredible dishonesty of this administration.
Next time I spend too much money and get in trouble with the wife, I'm gonna implement " the standard set of extraordinary measures" and say that after deducting the too large VISA bill, the checking account didn't really go down but rather the balance stays the same no matter how much I spent. Think she'll buy it?? *L*...Mel
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2013 15:00:43 GMT -5
Seems Mr. Orwell was prescient beyond anybody's wildest thoughts.
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Post by rockpickerforever on Aug 14, 2013 15:57:21 GMT -5
It's political math, Mel.
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phoenix1647
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2013
Posts: 186
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Post by phoenix1647 on Aug 14, 2013 16:26:53 GMT -5
political math? or political meth...gotta watch the spelling
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Post by helens on Aug 16, 2013 8:47:46 GMT -5
I tried to find the basis for your statement that we would have exceeded the debt ceiling in July except for 'extraordinary measures' and couldn't find it anywhere. Can you link this from a government site?
Last I checked, we had a SURPLUS in July from FannieMae mortgage profits. A surplus would add not only no debt for the month, but actually REDUCE the debt for that month. So I'm puzzled where you got this 98 billion dollar debt figure from?
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bushmanbilly
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2008
Posts: 4,719
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Post by bushmanbilly on Aug 16, 2013 10:08:51 GMT -5
Yes you did have a surplus in July thanks to the sequestration cuts. I wonder that if this continues. Will Barry stop blaming the Reps. for the sequestration so he can take the credit? The Federal government posted the largest budget surplus on record for the month of June thanks to budget cuts and mortgage giants Fannie and Freddie paying back a portion of the bailouts. June’s federal balance sheet leaned $117 Billion to the positive thanks mainly to the cuts that came from sequestration – a clear win for the Conservatives in Congress who have been pushing for cuts to pigish government spending. A smaller portion, just $59 Billion came from a payback by government-backed mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. While news outlets point to an improving economy, which there is little proof of, the spending cuts are the main source of the budget surplus.While the surplus is looked upon as a great positive, it is far too small to affect the gigantic public debt incurred by decades of over-spending and failure to manage the nation’s finances. www.conservativedailynews.com/2013/07/sequestration-delivers-biggest-budget-surplus-on-record-refuting-dems-claims/
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Post by helens on Aug 16, 2013 12:54:36 GMT -5
Ahh... so even Billy admits that our SURPLUS for the month of July means that 'extraordinary measures' means a SURPLUS that reduced the deficit?
And no, it wasn't sequestration that caused the surplus, it was FannieMae profits... which you pointed out yourself. Yet Obama saving FannieMae that led to this vast profit from them was thanks to the sequestration? Read your own paragraph carefully.
This is like saying... I won $5000 for the lottery, and my insurance dropped by $1000 because I reduced my coverage. Which is the reason my income increased for the month of June? Your reduced coverage?
And... so you appreciate what the Sequestration 'savings' meant, it MEANT that Medicare reduced what they would pay for, and INCREASED the cost of supplemental insurance for everyone because Medicare was cut 10%. What a deal that was.
Should we cut Medicare more because it worked so well for July? Well, if you are Republican, it will cut even further when they completely end Medicare the minute the Senate has a Republican majority so the Ryan Bill can pass Congress. Then!! Our deficit will drop a bit. After all, we keep paying out oil subsidies, but we won't have to pay for Medicare, so it will increase slower. What a happy tradeoff!
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bushmanbilly
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2008
Posts: 4,719
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Post by bushmanbilly on Aug 16, 2013 13:10:38 GMT -5
. A smaller portion, just $59 Billion came from a payback by government-backed mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Put 12 of those together Helen. Then you can get on your soap box. Never know it could have been just be fluke. Maybe Barry never took a vacation that month? Was he only playing 9 holes with Tiger? Or Michelle went on a diet. Bo skipped his Osprey ride. Just think how much that surplus could be if they tightened the reins on the foodstamp and obamaphone program.
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Post by helens on Aug 16, 2013 13:55:34 GMT -5
Maybe you should look up what an Obamaphone is. It's a voluntary program paid for by the phone companies. The Federal Gov't has nothing to do with it. *HONK*
The Sequestration DID tight the food stamp program. Fortunately, thus far we haven't been reading about more women shooting themselves in the head at the Food Stamp office in front of their kids. That could be because they now weapons check at the door, even in Texas where that happened?
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bushmanbilly
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2008
Posts: 4,719
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Post by bushmanbilly on Aug 16, 2013 15:18:52 GMT -5
Maybe you should look up what an Obamaphone is. It's a voluntary program paid for by the phone companies. The Federal Gov't has nothing to do with it. *HONK* The Sequestration DID tight the food stamp program. Fortunately, thus far we haven't been reading about more women shooting themselves in the head at the Food Stamp office in front of their kids. That could be because they now weapons check at the door, even in Texas where that happened? Of course the phone companies pay for it. Passed on the you consumers. Plus it gives the them more write offs which equals less taxes paid to the IRS. Maybe this dude should pull the lead in the head trick to.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2013 15:44:44 GMT -5
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Post by helens on Aug 16, 2013 15:57:37 GMT -5
Providing internet in SCHOOLS is related to voluntary phone company funding of 'obamaphones' how?
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,487
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Post by Sabre52 on Aug 16, 2013 17:09:51 GMT -5
*L* Helen, I read the story under the Yahoo headlines I get on my home page so it must be true, right? Saw another on the telly yesterday about the "real" national debt counting off the books money owed to social security, unfunded entitlements like federal pensions and all kids of other stuff the government owes but doesn't talk about. The debt clock today stands about 17 trillion 132 billion but the guy on the story, some kind of college prof economist says the "actual" national debt is more like 70 trillion. If even partly true, that is awful unsettling.....Mel
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Post by helens on Aug 16, 2013 17:30:24 GMT -5
Mel, I don't get my 'news' from news. I only look that up when we get into discussions about something and I want to fact check. And then, I look up dozens of articles typically so I can get both sides. Maybe that's where and why we differ with our version of the 'news'.
I get my news from financial reports and sites usually. When the President or Congress fart, it will affect one stock or another, so I get the whole shebang... from the profit perspective. For example, if Bo the dog really got his own plane, suddenly, that would be the hot plane to buy for CEO's and international jet setters who only have 2 planes and would like a 3rd. SOMEONE would report on how great that plane manufacturer is doing now that Obama's dog owns one. That would impact the stock. That would be news. There was no news about Bo's new plane, therefore, I have to question the validity of Bo getting his own plane.
The national debt is a number that is extrapolated from the budget. It's not a real figure. Think about the 'debt clock' for a minute... when NO ONE KNOWS what the actual debt is going to be this minute, because the figures must come from the Treasury and that's reported AT LEAST a month or closer to 3 months BEHIND, just like a stock report. Where do they get this continually moving clock then?
The figure isn't consistent, it can't be, it's affected by things like the speed of repayment on bonds, the purchasing of bonds (which the Fed holds close to the chest til they are forced to report it), the issuance of T-Bills, the repayment of debt obligations, and even the month to month receipt of FICA and FUTA from INDIVIDUAL taxpayers and businesses... no business can 100% accurately predict what they will make NEXT MONTH. Think Walmart knows whether they will top the month of August sales in a given store for the month of September? And that doesn't even take into account Black Swan events like 9-11 or a particular sports team winning a particular match that's heavily wagered on.
If you sold rocks on Ebay, could you tell me what you will make on rocks on Ebay for the month of November 2013? Because you do not know today if you will acquire some nice new rough that you can toss up before that, you do not know if a thief will come dig up your precious slabs from your back yard hidey hole. Yet with as many moving parts in the Federal Gov't, that includes people like me and you who may not have a CLUE what our net income will be next month, a clock can predict our national debt 3 months to 3 years out? Really? Common sense tells you that's a made up number. And whoever wants to make you happy or upset you can give you a wildly different number when they feel like it.
Does that make it easier to digest that the bottom line it... it don't matter at all when our money is THE BASE for every other currency on earth? When it goes poof, the entire world will go poof. Guess what will never go poof?
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,487
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Post by Sabre52 on Aug 16, 2013 18:09:06 GMT -5
*L* Aw come on Helen, you get your newsblips/talking points from Democratic headquarters where you work. You are obviously a political operative of some sort. I don't fault you for that, it's just that I deem your "facts" as biased and untrustworthy as you would those from FOX news or as I would from any government source. Obviously the government is full of lying sacks of doody as we have been shown time and time again lately......Mel
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Post by helens on Aug 16, 2013 19:21:32 GMT -5
*L* Aw come on Helen, you get your newsblips/talking points from Democratic headquarters where you work. You are obviously a political operative of some sort. I don't fault you for that, it's just that I deem your "facts" as biased and untrustworthy as you would those from FOX news or as I would from any government source. Obviously the government is full of lying sacks of doody as we have been shown time and time again lately......Mel I know you've believed this for a long time Mel, you've repeated it enough. But no, once again, I must tell you that I not only don't work for the Democratic party, I literally had nothing to do with the party except to make a few donations back in Oct 2012. I should tho. Maybe I'll go do some stumping for them in 2014 to get rid of Rick Scott. That's a very worthy cause. That also depends on WHO the Democrat contender is. I'll stump against Rick Scott anyway, but it will be tough to stump FOR a loser, despite that there's no such thing as a bigger loser than Rick Scott.
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,487
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Post by Sabre52 on Aug 16, 2013 21:21:11 GMT -5
*L* Don't know much about Rick Scott. Do know that lots of states with a Republican governors are doing well and lots with Democratic ones are totally screwed up. I'd say, be very careful what you wish for or you could wind up like freaking Commiefornia where it's so screwed up, counties are actually plotting secession......Mel
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robsrockshop
has rocks in the head
Member since August 2012
Posts: 715
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Post by robsrockshop on Aug 17, 2013 11:12:24 GMT -5
I have news for everyone here...........you can stop talking about surpluses right now.
That's like saying I have $10k left in my bank this month but I have a billion dollars in credit card balances.
There is ZERO, absolute ZERO, chance of this ever being repaid. And don't forget the 100 trillion or so in unfunded liabilities.
There are only 4 ways out:
1. Default.
2. Screw everyone else and go to war.
3. Bail-in. AKA Cyprus.
4. Some combination or all of the above.
No further need for discussion. Other countries are already trading out of the dollar. No country in history has ever maintained the reserve currency forever and neither will the US.
Don't ask for timeframes if we plotted our existence on a timeline it would be very insignificant and the worst may or may not fall within that time. We are in controlled collapse right now. Still $ to be made everywhere just not the usual prospects.
I'm trying to take my own advice and just forget about it and to the best I can do because there's nothing you can do to stop what's coming.
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Post by jakesrocks on Aug 17, 2013 11:22:23 GMT -5
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