sak
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since December 2013
Posts: 88
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Post by sak on Jun 13, 2014 2:55:45 GMT -5
Hi all,
I plan on tumbling amethyst & rose quartz. I've got 80 grit SC and I was planning on getting 220 SC, 500 SC, & cerium oxide for polish. After reading all the posts, I'm confused. Some people are suggesting 400SC, then 600SC then AO polish, or Tin oxide, them burnish step etc...
I'm looking for the most versatile option (I'll be tumbling lots of other stones as well) that can handle a good variety of stones. What do you guys think, should I just stick with 220,500, & polish? Also regarding polish, is AO more versatile option as opposed to CO?
Thanks for your input...
Sak....
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2014 3:35:10 GMT -5
Greetings [sak] with regards to Aluminum Oxide it depends where you reside, if in continental north America you will find it available from any vendor, however if you reside in the UK you will find it unavailable from any UK retailer, unless you import it yourself . UK polishes: Borax, Cerium Oxide, Diamond, Tin Oxide, Zinc Oxide. USA polishes: Aluminum Oxide, Borax, Cerium Oxide, Diamond, Tin Oxide UK Grits F = Fixed: F80, F220, F400, F600, F1200 USA grits 60/90, 110/240, F500, F1000, F1500 Borax in the UK: order it from your local chemist(pharmacy). Borax in the USA: get it from most supermarket laundry section "20 Mule Team Borax". For me Sticky #5 works best for rotaries. Please check out my Sticky's below. -- Please click images to open larger images in a new Tab, same with everything that is Underlined! I hail from (The Barony of Seabegs) Bonnybridge, Stirlingshire, U.K, where aliens (15mb) sometimes come for a visit & about 4 miles west from that monstrosity & 7 miles west of this new monstrosity! Sticky's: their contents are resource information 1#: Vendors worldwide (2mb), 2#: How to use the forum, 3#: How to identify rocks & minerals, 4#: Save money on expensive grits & polishes, 5#: Aussie Lapidary Forum: Rock Tumbling Guide!
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Jun 13, 2014 6:44:48 GMT -5
I tumble quite a bit of mixed rock loads and have had great luck with the following grits. I am not sure if you are using all rotaries or if you have a vibe so I did not put times on the stages.
Stage 1 - 60/90 or 80 grit graded are pretty much interchangeable.
Stage 2 - 120/220 SC
Stage 3 - 500 SC
Stage 4 - 1000 A/O ( This step is optional )
Stage 5 - A/O ( one micron or less in size )
I get all my grit from therockshed.com and I can totally vouch for his A/O polish. In my opinion its one of the most dependable and versatile polishes for a wide variety of rocks.
Good Luck and happy tumbling! Chuck
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Post by Jugglerguy on Jun 13, 2014 9:31:55 GMT -5
I use aluminum oxide for both 500 and 1000 stages. I thought that was pretty much standard, so I'm surprised that you use SC for those stages, Chuck. I think I'll be adding those to my next Rockshed order to see if it makes a difference.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Jun 13, 2014 9:44:15 GMT -5
I use aluminum oxide for both 500 and 1000 stages. I thought that was pretty much standard, so I'm surprised that you use SC for those stages, Chuck. I think I'll be adding those to my next Rockshed order to see if it makes a difference. Dang Rob. Now you got me wondering. I ordered 5 pounds of 500 grit back when I just had rotaries and then got the loto shortly after so now it seems like a lifetime supply at 1/2 tsp per load. I keep all my receipts though so I'll dig and see what I have. You may very well be right about it being A/O. I remember asking Shawn at Rockshed what he recommended when I ordered and i went with whatever he said. You are correct about the 1000 though because he only sells that in A/O so I updated my last post on that one already. chuck
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,547
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Post by tkvancil on Jun 13, 2014 11:49:17 GMT -5
I can also vouch for the Rockshed's AO polish, it has never failed me from quart to agate to feldspar.
For rough I use 60/90 or 80 grit silicon carbide.
For stage 2 I use 240 grit silicon carbide.
For stage 3 I use 600 grit silicon carbide.
For optional stage 4 I use 1000 grit aluminum oxide. I recommend the use of AO 1000 on translucent materials such as quartz, and on feldspars as well as any material Mohs 6 hardness or less.
And as mentioned AO polish from the Rockshed. As a side note I have used Cerium oxide in the past in rotary. It is way more expensive than the AO and I have gotten a way better polish from the AO.
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Post by johnjsgems on Jun 13, 2014 13:50:06 GMT -5
SC grit breaks down but continues to grind. The old books called for 80, 220, 400, 600 or mixed grade equivalent. Since the 220 breaks down by 10 days you will have something finer than 400. More steps won't hurt but not really necessary. Cerium was the standard for a long time and works great on harder stones. The sub micron aluminums work on a wider range of rocks and cost less than cerium. Tumbling is not rocket science. If you ask 20 SUCCESSFUL tumblers you will hear at least 20 different variations and all work. Some may speed up the process and some may work better on different stones. If you chip an agate the fresh surface is already shiny. All tumbling is doing is scratching the otherwise shiny rock to grind it into a shape followed by sanding steps to remove scratches from earlier steps. Also, most common error beginners make is not keeping barrels 2/3-3/4 full throughout by adding media or rocks.
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sak
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since December 2013
Posts: 88
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Post by sak on Jun 14, 2014 16:13:40 GMT -5
Greetings [sak] with regards to Aluminum Oxide it depends where you reside, if in continental north America you will find it available from any vendor, however if you reside in the UK you will find it unavailable from any UK retailer, unless you import it yourself . UK polishes: Borax, Cerium Oxide, Diamond, Tin Oxide, Zinc Oxide. USA polishes: Aluminum Oxide, Borax, Cerium Oxide, Diamond, Tin Oxide UK Grits F = Fixed: F80, F220, F400, F600, F1200 USA grits 60/90, 110/240, F500, F1000, F1500 Borax in the UK: order it from your local chemist(pharmacy). Borax in the USA: get it from most supermarket laundry section "20 Mule Team Borax". For me Sticky #5 works best for rotaries. Please check out my Sticky's below. -- Please click images to open larger images in a new Tab, same with everything that is Underlined! I hail from (The Barony of Seabegs) Bonnybridge, Stirlingshire, U.K, where aliens (15mb) sometimes come for a visit & about 4 miles west from that monstrosity & 7 miles west of this new monstrosity! Sticky's: their contents are resource information 1#: Vendors worldwide (2mb), 2#: How to use the forum, 3#: How to identify rocks & minerals, 4#: Save money on expensive grits & polishes, 5#: Aussie Lapidary Forum: Rock Tumbling Guide! Hi Andrew - Thanks for all your advice. Just so you know, I'll be using a rotary tumbler & I'm located in the US. I read your sticky #5. I have some questions if you don't mind. Your sticky is suggesting 50% rocks & 25% media/pellets etc. Just to clarify, is it accurate to assume that you are NOT using the leather strips until the 600 grit? (I'm assuming your using either beads/ceramic/plastic/sawdust for the earlier stages). Also regarding the leather, do you use dedicated leather for each stage to avoid contamination? Also, how long/wide are your leather strips that your using? My other question is: I like your idea of borax/burnish before & after each stage idea. Assuming I where to do that, is that the best way to ensure that the barrels will be clean such that they can be used for the next stage without having to worry about cross contamination? You also mention borax has the same effect as polish. How does it compare to aluminum oxide, & cerium oxide. If I'm doing amethyst & rose quartz, can I get away with borax & not have to use CO?bv I really appreciate all your feedback. Sak...
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sak
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since December 2013
Posts: 88
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Post by sak on Jun 14, 2014 16:28:44 GMT -5
To all,
I really appreciate all your feedback. As someone who is just starting out, your comments are really helping me out.
Thanks again.
Sak...
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transcendental
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2014
Posts: 459
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Post by transcendental on Jun 14, 2014 17:14:36 GMT -5
I'm going to piggyback on this thread.... Sry but I'm noob too and question is relevant.
I noticed this thread said you could polish with borax, why I did a search for its mohs hardness and found that list I posted earlier today. It says it's 2.5 I think it was... If that's the case it wouldn't be able to polish anything harder than soapstone.... so is it actually polishing or just cleaning grit and rock particles off of already mostly polished stones making it appear polished or does it leave a residue on the stones that makes it look polished? Sorry I'm just confused by this concept. The borax powder (20 mule) is really coarse grit, unless it's dissolved before being added to the tumbler I don't think it would polish well.
Again Sry for piggybacking
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Post by Jugglerguy on Jun 14, 2014 17:39:48 GMT -5
I use borax in every stage except 60/90. I've never heard of it polishing anything. I have also used Dreft laundry soap in place of borax. I'm not sure how, but borax helps the rocks get shinier. It can be used by itself for burnishing/washing, but not polishing that I know of.
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stephent
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
Posts: 213
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Post by stephent on Jun 14, 2014 18:55:12 GMT -5
I use borax (and 2-4 drops of dish soap) between every stage to clean the stones and barrels. But I'm thinking it could possibly polish too. Borax contains Boron..Mohs hardness of 9.5..that's just below diamonds!. Couldn't tell ya if it breaks down in to a bit of that atomically....but borax dissolves in water quite nicely or we wouldn't have the huge deposits of Borax in Calif. And softer substances will certainly wear lots harder stuff down...just slower. Cerium oxide has a mohs hardness of 6..it polishes garnet....slowly! Also polishes Jasper and Agate (mohs 7) nicely. I'm tending to think borax does help *clean*..(Burnishing is actually the plastic deformation of a surface due to sliding contact with another object.) and does a slight bit of actually polishing/wearing away. I'm also thinking a mild soap (a surfactant) with the borax in the cleaning cycle will help keep the smaller grits in suspension in the water so it will wash out better....just like your clothes in the washer.
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transcendental
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2014
Posts: 459
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Post by transcendental on Jun 14, 2014 19:53:47 GMT -5
That was a great explanation, thank you
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2014 0:36:07 GMT -5
Greetings [sak] I use a 12lb Lortone rubber barrel for media I use brick red Rhyolite (moh's 6.0) in hardness from 25mm (1") down to 0.5mm (0.019") in size, the Rhyolite moves on with the rock, at F600 I then add about 100g (4oz) of leather strips about 25mm (1") long x 13mm (0.5") wide, which stay in F600 including burnish then removed & placed in a container labeled F600 leather. I have one batch of leather strips for each grit F600, F1200 & polish Aluminum Oxide & Tin oxide. The shine you get with Borax is just the same as if you were using a true polish instead. Please check out my Sticky's below. -- Please click images to open larger images in a new Tab, same with everything that is Underlined! I hail from (The Barony of Seabegs) Bonnybridge, Stirlingshire, U.K, where aliens (15mb) sometimes come for a visit & about 4 miles west from that monstrosity & 7 miles west of this new monstrosity! Sticky's: their contents are resource information 1#: Vendors worldwide (2mb), 2#: How to use the forum, 3#: How to identify rocks & minerals, 4#: Save money on expensive grits & polishes, 5#: Aussie Lapidary Forum: Rock Tumbling Guide!
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sak
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since December 2013
Posts: 88
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Post by sak on Jun 16, 2014 0:43:22 GMT -5
Greetings [sak] I use a 12lb Lortone rubber barrel for media I use brick red Rhyolite (moh's 6.0) in hardness from 25mm (1") down to 0.5mm (0.019") in size, the Rhyolite moves on with the rock, at F600 I then add about 100g (4oz) of leather strips about 25mm (1") long x 13mm (0.5") wide, which stay in F600 including burnish then removed & placed in a container labeled F600 leather. I have one batch of leather strips for each grit F600, F1200 & polish Aluminum Oxide & Tin oxide. The shine you get with Borax is just the same as if you were using a true polish instead. Please check out my Sticky's below. -- Please click images to open larger images in a new Tab, same with everything that is Underlined! I hail from (The Barony of Seabegs) Bonnybridge, Stirlingshire, U.K, where aliens (15mb) sometimes come for a visit & about 4 miles west from that monstrosity & 7 miles west of this new monstrosity! Sticky's: their contents are resource information 1#: Vendors worldwide (2mb), 2#: How to use the forum, 3#: How to identify rocks & minerals, 4#: Save money on expensive grits & polishes, 5#: Aussie Lapidary Forum: Rock Tumbling Guide! Thanks for all your great info. I'm going to review all your sticky's before I do anything.... Thanks again for being so helpful. Sak...
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The Dad_Ohs
fully equipped rock polisher
Take me to your Labradorite!!
Member since September 2012
Posts: 1,860
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Post by The Dad_Ohs on Jun 18, 2014 15:14:50 GMT -5
Borax is most often used as a burnishing agent in between grits to clean/remove grit from the stones during changes so that you can more readily see how the grit has worked the stone, which is why you will see some use it between each stage. at the end of the tumbling cycle it is used to clean the polish from the stones but also tend to enhance the shine on the polished surface of some/most stones. Check some of the stickies in the tumbling section for more info on tumbling stones and remember to try to keep the material separate by hardness as the softer stones, like quartz/amethyst, will disintegrate when mixed with harder stones, like agate.
Also be sure to post lots of pics!!! it helps when you have a problem/question and we like to see the progress people make too!!!
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dillonf
fully equipped rock polisher
Hounding and tumbling
Member since February 2022
Posts: 1,622
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Post by dillonf on Feb 20, 2023 7:57:41 GMT -5
Looks like I am reviving this old post. I recently bought a 40lb bag of 60/90 SC. I have always used 80 SC previously. It has seemed to mess up the timing of my clean outs. With 80 grit my tumbles are ready to switch over in 6-7 days. With the 60/90 I don't have full grit breakdown in 6-7 days. Only an issue for me because I am a hobby tumbler with a 9-5 job and a young child that doesn't have time for clean outs during the week. I think I am going to add a bit more water and see if it will go for 2 weeks? I wasn't really expecting such a large difference, so it caught me by surprise. I especially notice it in my Lortone 45C - it has far less grit breakdown than the QT 6 and 12. With the 80 grit they all seemed in sync pretty much.
Any advice appreciated.
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nickinmd
off to a rocking start
Member since February 2023
Posts: 15
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Post by nickinmd on Feb 20, 2023 8:20:24 GMT -5
Leather for damage control/cushion? So where are you guys getting leather?
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stefan
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,113
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Post by stefan on Feb 20, 2023 18:21:31 GMT -5
Blast from the past! I use (and have been for 18 years now)60/90 and always run for 2 weeks between clean outs. I never have grit left over after 2 weeks (but will have grit at 1 week)
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dillonf
fully equipped rock polisher
Hounding and tumbling
Member since February 2022
Posts: 1,622
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Post by dillonf on Feb 20, 2023 20:19:31 GMT -5
Thanks stefan. Took me awhile to find the right ratios for a good 1 week tumble, guess I'm back to the drawing board to figure out the right grit to water ratios. That said it will be real nice to only have to clean out my coarse ground tumblers once every 2 weeks!
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