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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2017 19:31:07 GMT -5
Just like "green" vehicles, manufacturing the "planet saving" product often has more negative impact than making what you have last as long as you can. As I have said before the "greenest" passenger car in the world is a 1966 Volvo P1800 owned by Irv Gordon that has over 3 million miles on it. The thing that gets me is you can spend your entire life being 'green' and the people with money can use your 'green savings' in a very short time. Think of the waste any time people take there personal jet across the country. Sorry melhill1659 not picking on you and your hubby's plane  . I have no problem with people doing what they want just don't tell me that 'You Can' and 'I Can't'....................................MrP Well said! A libertarian at heart! |
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Post by melhill1659 on Mar 26, 2017 20:48:50 GMT -5
Just like "green" vehicles, manufacturing the "planet saving" product often has more negative impact than making what you have last as long as you can. As I have said before the "greenest" passenger car in the world is a 1966 Volvo P1800 owned by Irv Gordon that has over 3 million miles on it. The thing that gets me is you can spend your entire life being 'green' and the people with money can use your 'green savings' in a very short time. Think of the waste any time people take there personal jet across the country. Sorry melhill1659 not picking on you and your hubby's plane . I have no problem with people doing what they want just don't tell me that 'You Can' and 'I Can't'....................................MrP No offense taken. We don't have a jet anyway. Just a small little plane. We don't hardly ever even use it for actual trips. Con works a lot and the plane is one of his passions/hobby. I almost always prefer to have my feet on the ground. |
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metalsmith
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Post by metalsmith on Mar 27, 2017 1:35:38 GMT -5
Hobo's Dad You are correct. The pollution left behind from solar production is terrible..........................................MrP At least it's in China! Well there are costs and there are costs. One youtube video (sorry I didn't capture the link at the time) said the costs had fallen by around 75% over a decade. This chart shows the fall over a longer period - from $100/ watt back in 1975. I can find another youtube video that says to expect to pay $2 - 3 / watt plus shipping - that was just last year. I've paid £1.40 / Watt - around $1.55 and that includes shipping and additional equipment in order to realise a workable power supply from that. Also, many of those costs would not be repeated should I expand the number of panels. Another source stated Bloomberg estimated the costs would fall by up to 60% by 2040. But those are consumer costs for one panel + other equipment to run it. What are the bulk costs? Considerably lower, no doubt. Around $1/watt. What are the actual costs of the panels? Apparently China is now looking to increase it's solar capability and the price for this: ... 8c / Watt. At current prices. So by 2040 (assuming the forecast comes off and taking a lower value than the estimate) $4/ watt. Battery technology and costs are also evolving. So the future looks bright for Solar! |
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Post by MrP on Mar 27, 2017 6:23:01 GMT -5
Remember the saying, What Would You Like The Numbers To Say.
The system that was installed 10 years ago was $8.26 a watt, after rebates about $6. Which numbers do you think the solar company used. You and I, well not you because you are not in the US, spent $2.26 per watt to bring that price down. That system is in the downhill part of it's life. It does not produce the energy it did when first installed.
The system being installed now is just over $4 a watt before rebates. It may or may not have a better life cycle then a system installed 10 years ago. Only time will tell.
Battery's have a long way to go to be cost effective as storage for the average person.
In most areas you simply can't beat the cost of power supplied by a power company. If the Green People can get the CO2 tax high enough that will change. Of course everything will be more expensive when that happens......................................MrP |
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metalsmith
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Post by metalsmith on Mar 27, 2017 14:08:57 GMT -5
Remember the saying, What Would You Like The Numbers To Say.
The system that was installed 10 years ago was $8.26 a watt, after rebates about $6. Which numbers do you think the solar company used. You and I, well not you because you are not in the US, spent $2.26 per watt to bring that price down. That system is in the downhill part of it's life. It does not produce the energy it did when first installed.
The system being installed now is just over $4 a watt before rebates. It may or may not have a better life cycle then a system installed 10 years ago. Only time will tell.
Battery's have a long way to go to be cost effective as storage for the average person.
In most areas you simply can't beat the cost of power supplied by a power company. If the Green People can get the CO2 tax high enough that will change. Of course everything will be more expensive when that happens......................................MrP LOL I'm a numerical modeller so I can get the numbers to say what I want  Re the price of power supplied by PowerCo I agree wholeheartedly. Given my situation, I guess one solution might have been to purchase a small meter and clip it to the wires and pay for the energy directly. However right now I don't know quite what the future will bring. So a few quid paid out now guarantees that I'll be able to continue cutting stone whatever the 'weather'. |
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Post by youp50 on Mar 31, 2017 14:25:45 GMT -5
Nicely done. My name is Solar. I've studied it for decades. Power is way cheaper than buying panels and accessories. And if they let you guys build modern nukes the enviro power guys would be doomed. No new nukes for many years to come. Coal fired plants and co-gens the same. Co-gens being gas turbines with after burners supplying heat to a boiler to supply a steam turbine. Natural gas in America is too inexpensive to use at peak efficiency. Thus we have utilities building diesel generators powered by natural gas generating stations. If I was going to take my new found obsessive compulsive hobby off line, I would fabricate an 'S' rotor wind spinner and use it to spin my tumblers directly. Prior to the electrification of rural America, there were wind driven grain grinders, water pumps and such. Same idea. |
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Post by spiceman on Mar 31, 2017 19:26:34 GMT -5
I worked with a group of guys trying to use the sun rays to power a full size building.
They designed a very large bracket to hold polished panels 9"x 6ft long. To harness
the Suns rays. Making a 3" diameter beam. Focused on a photocell 6 feet away on the centerline.
It made a 1/4 of a arc X and Y axis. Putting the first prototype together
On the ground and one of the men accidentally run his arm too close to the beam
Of light. It threw him about 3 feet. He was alive still. A good idea but
It cost too much cash for people to justify the initial cost.
But a good idea. Solar for electric and used to heat the water.
Solar is the way to go.
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Post by youp50 on Apr 1, 2017 8:35:32 GMT -5
There is a solar powered steam driven generating station in the south west. I believe the birds are called 'smokers', the ones that fly through the concentrated sun beams, instant death and a smoking carcass plummeting to the earth.
Check out the many hits 'Ivanpah' will get you. A great idea, brought to reality with massive federal aid, that seems to be unable to perform as planned.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Apr 1, 2017 9:28:50 GMT -5
I had a 50W 12volt out in a remote location on the farm that kept a 1/10 acre pond filled for years. Pumping out of adjacent creek. Loved it.
Pumped during day light only. No battery/control. Darn good application for a tumbler.
Surprising the output. Cloudy UK an issue. Do your sun calculations carefully.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2017 12:27:05 GMT -5
My purple tumbler is 1/6 HP, about 125 watts. A deep storage marine battery and a converter would run it 24/7. And in Cali two 250 watt solar panels would keep the battery charged. Im designing an open air shed for a lapidary shop for jeannie and I. To run that I planned on 1HP, 24/7... overkill! Saws dont run 24/7. 6 panels and 3 batteries. |
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Post by 1dave on Apr 1, 2017 13:12:38 GMT -5
The "right thing" is a belief system, not a reality.
Building a mansion is bad?
Really?
Why?
From my viewpoint it transfers a lot of money from a person who has too much to a lot of people (workers) who don't have enough. For me, that is a good thing.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2017 13:17:58 GMT -5
The "right thing" is a belief system, not a reality. Building a mansion is bad? Really? Why? From my viewpoint it transfers a lot of money from a person who has too much to a lot of people (workers) who don't have enough. For me, that is a good thing. Yes. And one man's "right thing" is another man's evil. Your mansion is perfect example. You and i agree. But you know that others see dead trees and trees are good! The issue really is why do people think that their opinion is better than yours or mine? |
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Post by 1dave on Apr 1, 2017 13:30:16 GMT -5
The "right thing" is a belief system, not a reality. Building a mansion is bad? Really? Why? From my viewpoint it transfers a lot of money from a person who has too much to a lot of people (workers) who don't have enough. For me, that is a good thing. Yes. And one man's "right thing" is another man's evil. Your mansion is perfect example. You and i agree. But you know that others see dead trees and trees are good! The issue really is why do people think that their opinion is better than yours or mine? Dead trees proved to be a really bad thing on Easter island where all the trees were cut down to roll statues to their final resting places. Destroyed the ecology and they starved to death, all for a belief system. IDIOTS that refuse to see that tree farms plant and replace every tree they cut down ARE the problem. |
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Apr 1, 2017 13:32:30 GMT -5
My purple tumbler is 1/6 HP, about 125 watts. A deep storage marine battery and a converter would run it 24/7. And in Cali two 250 watt solar panels would keep the battery charged. Im designing an open air shed for a lapidary shop for jeannie and I. To run that I planned on 1HP, 24/7... overkill! Saws dont run 24/7. 6 panels and 3 batteries. 1/3 HP motor does about $35/month. Could finance a solar system at $700/year fairly fast. Check tax incentives too. Cali sun wicked. |
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Post by MrP on Apr 1, 2017 15:28:24 GMT -5
The "right thing" is a belief system, not a reality. Building a mansion is bad? Really? Why? From my viewpoint it transfers a lot of money from a person who has too much to a lot of people (workers) who don't have enough. For me, that is a good thing. Jim Mansion no problem. Building one and telling me to conserve, problem!........... MrP |
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metalsmith
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Post by metalsmith on Apr 1, 2017 15:29:22 GMT -5
I had a 50W 12volt out in a remote location on the farm that kept a 1/10 acre pond filled for years. Pumping out of adjacent creek. Loved it. Pumped during day light only. No battery/control. Darn good application for a tumbler. Surprising the output. Cloudy UK an issue. Do your sun calculations carefully. What I have should make a decent start. I'm not anywhere near full time lapping. I work 5 days / week and study other times / run sometimes / play here at RTH and do my lapidary just for a couple of hours / day. At the weekends I'll sometimes do half a day; rarely a full day. I'll start by seeing what I can achieve with the set up I've acquired (/am acquiring) and go from there. Even if it sees me through the summer and autumn, that will be great. Come winter play time might be reduced or it may need an additional cell or something else to take up my time. We'll see. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2017 16:41:24 GMT -5
I had a 50W 12volt out in a remote location on the farm that kept a 1/10 acre pond filled for years. Pumping out of adjacent creek. Loved it. Pumped during day light only. No battery/control. Darn good application for a tumbler. Surprising the output. Cloudy UK an issue. Do your sun calculations carefully. What I have should make a decent start. I'm not anywhere near full time lapping. I work 5 days / week and study other times / run sometimes / play here at RTH and do my lapidary just for a couple of hours / day. At the weekends I'll sometimes do half a day; rarely a full day. I'll start by seeing what I can achieve with the set up I've acquired (/am acquiring) and go from there. Even if it sees me through the summer and autumn, that will be great. Come winter play time might be reduced or it may need an additional cell or something else to take up my time. We'll see. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Pics please. Or it never happened.  |
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Post by spiceman on Apr 1, 2017 21:13:08 GMT -5
The bab part about solar power is if you don't get solar for days your power could be gone.
Ohio doesn't have lots of solar but wind mills could be a better answer for me.
Being a tournament fishinman and spending most of the day fishing I had a solar panel to recharge my troller motor battery
While I was fishing. It worked good. Direction of the sun verse direction of the panel was very important.
Maybe a larger panel might have been a good answer but cost a getting in the way. Maybe
I don't fish anymore so it is not a problem for me anymore.
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metalsmith
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Post by metalsmith on Apr 1, 2017 23:46:55 GMT -5
What I have should make a decent start. I'm not anywhere near full time lapping. I work 5 days / week and study other times / run sometimes / play here at RTH and do my lapidary just for a couple of hours / day. At the weekends I'll sometimes do half a day; rarely a full day. I'll start by seeing what I can achieve with the set up I've acquired (/am acquiring) and go from there. Even if it sees me through the summer and autumn, that will be great. Come winter play time might be reduced or it may need an additional cell or something else to take up my time. We'll see. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Pics please. Or it never happened. Well it hasn't happened yet to be fair... I've studied the youtube video, worked out what I want / need and placed some orders. Possibly the most important part - the solar panel arrived yesterday, but I don't have a camera right now. I might be able to take one on my phone. Several components were sourced from China and might take a little while to arrive. Even when it does, the postal service from home to me is even slower! Be patient, it's happening! Pics to follow. |
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metalsmith
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Post by metalsmith on Apr 1, 2017 23:53:41 GMT -5
Yes. And one man's "right thing" is another man's evil. Your mansion is perfect example. You and i agree. But you know that others see dead trees and trees are good! The issue really is why do people think that their opinion is better than yours or mine? Dead trees proved to be a really bad thing on Easter island where all the trees were cut down to roll statues to their final resting places. Destroyed the ecology and they starved to death, all for a belief system. Couldn't see the trees for the wood?!   |
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. I have no problem with people doing what they want just don't tell me that 'You Can' and 'I Can't'....................................MrP
