Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,709
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Post by Fossilman on Jun 7, 2017 8:32:54 GMT -5
Adam you are a twit!! You haven't a clue! You can read all you want about what the military is about,but don't put them down,untell you walk in their boots! I know a few Vets that would knock you right into the dirt for that comment! Many men died and gave you the rights to say what you want to say,that's what America is about...This young generation is a waste of time!! Most haven't a brain to think with!!!!!
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Post by captbob on Jun 7, 2017 8:46:53 GMT -5
yeah... but what do you really think Mike? That was actually much nicer than what I deleted before I posted it. Don't give up on the younger generation entirely. SOME will have value.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jun 7, 2017 9:22:47 GMT -5
yeah... but what do you really think Mike? That was actually much nicer than what I deleted before I posted it. Don't give up on the younger generation entirely. SOME will have value. Yes, my grandson is one of the few that give me hope. He is a fine young man. He's turning 18 in a few days. I don't think I could keep him from joining the military even if I wanted to. BTW- Every time I see that picture, I want to cry. My dad was a career Navy man. I remember seeing him off at the pier for those long deployments. I imagine most of the kids looked like this boy. I am certainly not comparing a father's death to a deployment. But, it sure felt like that when you were standing on that pier waving goodbye. Kids nowadays have no clue what sacrifice means. Proud to be a Navy Brat!
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Post by captbob on Jun 7, 2017 9:32:10 GMT -5
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Post by rockjunquie on Jun 7, 2017 9:42:50 GMT -5
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Post by aDave on Jun 7, 2017 11:57:15 GMT -5
Best ammo to use in self defense is the same ammo your local police use. That way there's no gripe about you using "special" man killer handloads. Your argument would be, if it is a good round for the police to use to protect themselves, it should be good enough for you too. Heck placement is important no matter what kind of shooter you use. How's that old saying go? "Two in the heart, one in the head, makes damn sure he's good and dead" Shooting someone in the little toe obviously ain't a man stopper. I find 40's are a bit snappier in recoil and a bit harder to shoot than 9mm's, especially in double taps. I think that's why most PD's are returning to 9mms. Plus, those extra big maxi-magazines in the nines. Three mags is almost sixty rounds......Mel That's actually a great point, Mel Sabre52 . Most often, performance of those rounds have already been tested for penetration and other factors. Ranger T was actually my duty round. However, when I wanted to stock up on more, it couldn't be had anywhere. So, I ended up going with HST. One other misnomer to address - Some ammunition may be marked "Law Enforcement" on the boxes. Some think this restricts the public from buying it. That's not necessarily the case, as the marking has to do with an excise tax exemption when purchased by an agency. So, @shotgunner , If ammo marked Law Enforcement is what you find, go ahead and buy it if you like. Oh yeah, it performs no differently than unmarked ammo, as it's all the same stuff, just different packaging. Our agency went from .40 to 9mm for some of the reasons you speak. Me personally, I loved the .40. But, the 9mm can be a bit easier to handle, and I know I didn't mind the change especially due to arthritis in the wrist. I used to be pretty sore after a day of shooting. But, there were other practical reasons for the change as well: 9mm practice ammo is cheaper than .40. Even if the difference is pennies, it adds up over time. And most importantly, 9mm offered more capacity than the .40 in a similarly sized gun. Oh, and I wasn't going after you for the term "stopping power." I was just speaking in generality. Best regards. Dave
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2017 14:48:32 GMT -5
Adam you are a twit!! You haven't a clue! You can read all you want about what the military is about, but don't put them down, until you walk in their boots! I know a few Vets that would knock you right into the dirt for that comment! Many men died and gave you the rights to say what you want to say, that's what America is about... This young generation is a waste of time!! Most haven't a brain to think with!!!!! This one needed saying 2x. Mike that is possibly the best post you have ever written. Well done. I have recently spoken with many young 20 something's. Kidlet is 20 and has many friends. They ain't all a waste. Most are getting it and I think the next generation of leaders (when I'm long retired or dead) will be a very different sort. Libertarian ideals abound in that group.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2017 14:54:48 GMT -5
I guarantee your attitude would change!!!!! LMAO!!! Been there done that! Haha, I'm not letting you slip by on this one, Fossilman. Code of Conduct for Members of the United States Armed Forces
I. I am an American(that is true!), fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense(if you want to give up your life for your friends, family, country, go ahead, but not all of us agree!). [Article I amended by EO 12633 of Mar. 28, 1988, 53 FR 10355, 3 CFR, 1988 Comp., p. 561]
II. I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command, I will never surrender the members of my command while they still have the means to resist(if there is a great chance that resisting the enemy will ultimately lead to my death, sure, why not surrender IF the enemy is known to provide amnesty and sanctuary?).
[Article II amended by EO 12633 of Mar. 28, 1988, 53 FR 10355, 3 CFR, 1988 Comp., p. 561]
III. If I am captured I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy(as I said, only if the enemy is known to provide amnesty and sanctuary... but the enemy could lie, in which case I'd be screwed).
IV. If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners(yeah, I'd keep the faith that I'd help get us all out of a military prison, who wouldn't). I will give no information or take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not, I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them up in every way.
V. When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service number and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability(while I'm at it, I'll engage in friendly conversation!). I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause.
[Article V amended by EO 12017 of Nov. 3, 1977, 42 FR 57941, 3 CFR, 1977 Comp., p. 152]
VI. I will never forget that I am an American, fighting for freedom, responsible for my actions(like I'd be responsible for accidently discharging a bullet, which wouldn't happen if I were to not carry a firearm), and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America. 899. Article 99. MISBEHAVIOR BEFORE THE ENEMY
Any person subject to this chapter who before or in the presence of the enemy–
(1) runs away(yeah, I'd definitely runaway if I knew my allies and I were about to get slaughtered, I'd be telling them guys to jump ship!);
(2) shamefully abandons, surrenders, or delivers up any command, unit, place, or military property which it is his duty to defend(don't give someone a duty they hate);
(3) through disobedience, neglect, or intentional misconduct endangers the safety of any such command, unit, place, or military property(there's misconduct written all over me with a sharpie);
(4) casts away his arms or ammunition(people get some idea in their head, and they refuse to fight, WHO CAN BLAME THEM?); (5) is guilty of cowardly conduct(cite me right now for even commenting on all of these codes!);
(6) quits his place of duty to plunder or pillage(YOU BET I'D PLUNDER THE ENEMIES' VALUABLES);
(7) causes false alarms in any command, unit, or place under control of the armed forces(oops, I thought wrong); (8) willfully fails to do his utmost to encounter, engage, capture, or destroy any enemy troops, combatants, vessels, aircraft, or any other thing, which it is his duty so to encounter, engage, capture, or destroy(you know me, sometimes I like to fail, so I can learn better); or
(9) does not afford all practicable relief and assistance to any troops, combatants, vessels, or aircraft of the armed forces belonging to the United States or their allies when engaged in battle(you can't always give your 100% in your duties...);
shall be punished by death or such punishment as a court- martial may direct. § 890. Art. 90. Assaulting or willfully disobeying superior commissioned officer
Any person subject to this chapter who—
(1) strikes his superior commissioned officer or draws or lifts up any weapon or offers any violence against him while he is in the execution of his office(OK, there's nothing wrong with this code); or
(2) willfully disobeys a lawful command of his superior commissioned officer(I willfully disobey ANYONE I disagree with--my opinion matters to me);
shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct, and if the offense is committed at any other time, by such punishment, other than death, as a court-martial may direct. I'm sorry, but, military is overrated. You oops up and they want to execute you or give you 20+ years for any transgression. I guess that's true for every military! I sincerely hope, that, in the future, Americans won't have to sacrifice their life for their country, as we could just send robots to destroy our enemies. But that's like 40-50 years from now... Adam those words are a code of conduct. One expected after taking an oath to follow said code. That oath taken voluntarily. Clearly that oath is not one you would take. Thankfully there is no draft forcing young males like you into jobs they hate. The country is better without it, and without you in that job. I never served, but came very close. Chose not too under wierd circumstances. You simply must have respect for all service men/women active or retired. They do so in protection of our land, our laws and our freedoms. Without them, we and by extension you, are nothing.
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,709
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Post by Fossilman on Jun 7, 2017 17:34:34 GMT -5
Adam you are a twit!! You haven't a clue! You can read all you want about what the military is about, but don't put them down, until you walk in their boots! I know a few Vets that would knock you right into the dirt for that comment! Many men died and gave you the rights to say what you want to say, that's what America is about... This young generation is a waste of time!! Most haven't a brain to think with!!!!! This one needed saying 2x. Mike that is possibly the best post you have ever written. Well done. I have recently spoken with many young 20 something's. Kidlet is 20 and has many friends. They ain't all a waste. Most are getting it and I think the next generation of leaders (when I'm long retired or dead) will be a very different sort. Libertarian ideals abound in that group. I earned my time,my stripes,my ground work!!!(I walked the walk)... I will defend my Veteran and military Brothers and Sisters!!! I put stress on the the saying of the younger generation,yes there are good ones out there. They are the ones that will go out in life and make something of themselves,(without the whine and cheese)..(sarcastic comment,YES)!! Thank you Scott for bringing that point up...
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,709
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Post by Fossilman on Jun 7, 2017 17:36:15 GMT -5
yeah... but what do you really think Mike? That was actually much nicer than what I deleted before I posted it. Don't give up on the younger generation entirely. SOME will have value. I bit my tongue Bro......
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Post by MrP on Jun 7, 2017 18:17:13 GMT -5
This one needed saying 2x. Mike that is possibly the best post you have ever written. Well done. I have recently spoken with many young 20 something's. Kidlet is 20 and has many friends. They ain't all a waste. Most are getting it and I think the next generation of leaders (when I'm long retired or dead) will be a very different sort. Libertarian ideals abound in that group. I earned my time,my stripes,my ground work!!!(I walked the walk)... I will defend my Veteran and military Brothers and Sisters!!! I put stress on the the saying of the younger generation,yes there are good ones out there. They are the ones that will go out in life and make something of themselves,(without the whine and cheese)..(sarcastic comment,YES)!! Thank you Scott for bringing that point up... Thank you and everybody who has served. It is because of you and the others who served that we have the freedoms and the great country we have!
I could not post what I wanted to say..........................................MrP
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Post by mohs on Jun 7, 2017 18:18:41 GMT -5
I never served in the Armed Forces
I’m NOT proud of That! Wish I had! Seriously! I could have used the discipline & structure Not sure I would have been very successful But nonetheless I missed out on a character-building experience
I’ve worked with lots of ex-vets Some were happy with their experience others fairly unhappy.
I always tried to impart my respect and opinion that they were better off for having served. I used my own life as an example. Ha Those guys worked circles around me,
Anyway at the end of my experience now I’d like to charge into terrorist situation & help disable or avoid more harm to others and perhaps make a positive contribution.
Ed
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Post by aDave on Jun 7, 2017 19:24:37 GMT -5
I never served in the Armed Forces I’m NOT proud of That! Wish I had! Seriously! I could have used the discipline & structure Not sure I would have been very successful But nonetheless I missed out on a character-building experience I’ve worked with lots of ex-vets Some were happy with their experience others fairly unhappy. I always tried to impart my respect and opinion that they were better off for having served. I used my own life as an example. Ha Those guys worked circles around me, Anyway at the end of my experience now I’d like to charge into terrorist situation & help disable or avoid more harm to others and perhaps make a positive contribution. Ed In hindsight, the one BIG regret that I have in life is that I never served in the armed forces. In a weird way, I felt I didn't pay my dues to society by not doing so. I happened to get hired into public service when I was 21 and did so for 34 years. I have the utmost respect for military, and I will defend an individual's stance to serve. Jerkoffs like adam have no place with me. No sugar-coating here. Dave
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2017 19:26:46 GMT -5
I never served in the Armed Forces I’m NOT proud of That! Wish I had! Seriously! I could have used the discipline & structure Not sure I would have been very successful But nonetheless I missed out on a character-building experience I’ve worked with lots of ex-vets Some were happy with their experience others fairly unhappy. I always tried to impart my respect and opinion that they were better off for having served. I used my own life as an example. Ha Those guys worked circles around me, Anyway at the end of my experience now I’d like to charge into terrorist situation & help disable or avoid more harm to others and perhaps make a positive contribution. Ed Then start carrying a handgun and be ready to put a bullet in a terrorist's ear. I promise to do the same
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Post by rockjunquie on Jun 7, 2017 21:44:14 GMT -5
^^^^^^^^^ ALL you guys make me proud! Those of you who didn't serve- you have the fortitude to respect those who have. Good on ya!
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Post by aDave on Jun 7, 2017 22:36:18 GMT -5
^^^^^^^^^ ALL you guys make me proud! Those of you who didn't serve- you have the fortitude to respect those who have. Good on ya! Of all things in life, after living through many experiences, I've come to believe there is no greater service to our country than serving our country. I happened to miss that boat. My life took me in a different route, but public service was what I ended up doing. I wasn't going to get rich, but the work afforded a satisfaction that couldn't be obtained in the corporate world. Kudos to you and your family. As opposed to some here ( adam ), I "get" the sacrifice that you and your family made in support of this country. Please send thanks to your family. Best regards. Dave
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Post by adam on Jun 8, 2017 7:41:52 GMT -5
I never served in the Armed Forces I’m NOT proud of That! Wish I had! Seriously! I could have used the discipline & structure Not sure I would have been very successful But nonetheless I missed out on a character-building experience I’ve worked with lots of ex-vets Some were happy with their experience others fairly unhappy. I always tried to impart my respect and opinion that they were better off for having served. I used my own life as an example. Ha Those guys worked circles around me, Anyway at the end of my experience now I’d like to charge into terrorist situation & help disable or avoid more harm to others and perhaps make a positive contribution. Ed In hindsight, the one BIG regret that I have in life is that I never served in the armed forces. In a weird way, I felt I didn't pay my dues to society by not doing so. I happened to get hired into public service when I was 21 and did so for 34 years. I have the utmost respect for military, and I will defend an individual's stance to serve. Jerkoffs like adam have no place with me. No sugar-coating here. Dave Dave, defend all you want, but you're calling ME a jerkoff. Bad choice of words. I'm just telling you my point of view. Don't like it? Take a hike, buddy. You have respect for the military? Good for you! We were raised under different circumstances(surely to God, my family didn't care for me as much as your family did for you, if not, then I must be a piece of shit, huh?), for you, you learned the importance of service! Not me. All I've learned from this thread is that sacrificing a human for the good of their country is either noble as eff, or is the biggest waste there is for those with my view! No one has to die for their country, but, unfortunately, there are those that want to destroy the United States because we have the finest freedoms this earth has to offer. If every country had freedoms like we did, then there wouldn't be a need for the military, only a need for the police to neutralize terror! Too bad some countries want to abuse their citizens. Until those countries are utterly changed for the better, there's gonna be a need for a strong military for our country. I'm saying we don't have to use our citizens to fight against those that want us obliterated. Use the most cutting-edge technology to protect our troops while they fight for us! We have to make sure none of them die while they serve us, and at the same time, technology must be advanced enough to annihilate the enemy! Fossilman, call me a twit one more time! Someone stop this thread from getting off track, because none of ya'll will like me the next time Fossilman calls me a twit! Of course, Fossilman doesn't have to call me a twit, he could just accept that I am who I am and move on. Those kids you guys hope to grow up and have values... now, I'm just 20 years old, my ideals didn't develop over night. Those kids better have some Godly family to grow up with, or their views are going to become twisted in an instant! Just like every other twisted sourpuss that lives here on this planet!
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Post by coloradocliff on Jun 8, 2017 7:51:10 GMT -5
Adam.. Best to let people think you are a fool then open your mouth. 20 years old is where I was as a young man in a foreign land with men I didn't know as my enemies. It grows you up quick, open your mind, learn, actually see things and refuse to be indoctrinated, These people on here have seen life in more ways you could ever imagine with your young years. Listen and learn. You're a learner right? Don't blubber kid threats, learn.. Adave Love you man, same fossilman.
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,709
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Post by Fossilman on Jun 8, 2017 8:42:23 GMT -5
I said my piece,life goes on! Idol threats don't bother me young man,never have,never will.....I have been shot at,stabbed,run over,fought,still kickin' in life... You have a lot to learn and take it as it comes,because it's coming.....It's a big world out there and we do voice our opinions,like it or not,that's how it goes... I have better things to do,than idol talk,like headed to my rock pile and start cutting rock... All my rock friends,have a great day-I sure will...............THumbs up
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Post by rockjunquie on Jun 8, 2017 8:51:37 GMT -5
^^^^^^^^^ ALL you guys make me proud! Those of you who didn't serve- you have the fortitude to respect those who have. Good on ya! Of all things in life, after living through many experiences, I've come to believe there is no greater service to our country than serving our country. I happened to miss that boat. My life took me in a different route, but public service was what I ended up doing. I wasn't going to get rich, but the work afforded a satisfaction that couldn't be obtained in the corporate world. Kudos to you and your family. As opposed to some here ( adam ), I "get" the sacrifice that you and your family made in support of this country. Please send thanks to your family. Best regards. Dave Public service is still service to your country. Thank you. My grandfather couldn't wait to join up with his friends. He was certain he would be fighting in WWII just like all his buddies. Imagine his disappointment when he was designated 4F. He had flat feet. I still have his 4F card. He was bitterly, bitterly disappointed. But, he ended up at the ship yard where they were desperate for young men to do the hard work. So, he served his country, too, as far as I am concerned. There are lots of ways to serve.
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