Misplaced Aussie
starting to shine!
Shoulda left it there
Member since February 2012
Posts: 40 
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Post by Misplaced Aussie on Mar 12, 2019 17:48:54 GMT -5
After tumbling rocks for about 10 years on and off, reckoned I was ready to advance to doing something with the rocks. Bought an old genie a few years back and when I started it up about a year ago was running hot (very, as in burnt my hand just touching the body).
Being a mechanical guy, thought it was just stuffed bearings so pulled machine apart, finding that replacing the bearing on pump side was going to be very difficult in my deficient workshop due to the pressed on pump pulley. So, sat all aside and now a year later decided to have another look.
Put machine back together again, ran it for 5 minutes without wheels and burnt my hand again. Felt the ends of the motor where the bearings are enclosed, cool as a cucumber so obviously bearings not the problem.
BTW, where does the felt washer go, it was left after I put everything back together?
Inside dia is same as shaft size.
Did a search on RTH for “genie hot” must have both words. Looks like I will first put in a new capacitor, and then reassess the situation.
But here's the worst part, I now have to read all these interesting articles which my search brought up:-Refurbishing Diamond Wheels, Charging belts and lap discs, Homemade 10 wheel arbor, Variable speed motors, Aafter shaping and before final polish technique, Here's 9 more, Bearings for Genie, Garage shots, Final polishing, Gem lube, My Hotdog ain't so hot...dog.
And that is less than 1% of all the interesting and educational articles on RTH. Thank you all and sundry.
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fishnpinball
Cave Dweller 
So much to learn, so little time
Member since March 2017
Posts: 1,491
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Post by fishnpinball on Mar 12, 2019 19:39:05 GMT -5
If it seems to be sluggish starting I would consider a bad wiring connection at some point. Below the motor is one of the common points. anything that does not appear to be good should be cut back.
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Post by hummingbirdstones2 on Mar 12, 2019 20:02:29 GMT -5
New capacitor should fix it. That's a common problem with second-hand machines because they've usually sat idle for some time. If the windings or wiring insulation aren't cooked it will be fine with a new capacitor.
It's easy to replace the capacitor - just leave the motor on it's side, with the side of the base also resting on the worksurface.
If you turn the base up so you can see directly downward into it there's a hole for the wiring that will gladly swallow up anything that might be dropped into the base. That turns a simple job into a much more annoying one. |
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jasperfanatic
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2019
Posts: 463
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Post by jasperfanatic on Mar 12, 2019 20:04:52 GMT -5
Could it be by design? I don't know anything about the Genie's (or much about anything for that matter), but my CabKing will burn your hand if you touch the motor after running a bit and they have stickers warning of that in addition to mentioning it in the manual.
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Mar 12, 2019 21:13:13 GMT -5
Not that I know of. The Genie motor gets warm, but not so hot it will actually burn you, unless, of course, it's starting to fry. I've had mine do that. Not fun. Had to get a new motor. Also not fun.
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RWA3006
Cave Dweller
Member since March 2009
Posts: 4,659
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Post by RWA3006 on Mar 12, 2019 22:26:26 GMT -5
1dave probably knows something about this.
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Post by 1dave on Mar 12, 2019 23:06:17 GMT -5
My uncle had a 1 1/2 hp motor running his 24" slab saw. The motor ran so hot he had a fan blowing on it all the time.
The problem? The power was delivered by an 18 gauge extension cord. this dropped 120 volts down to about 80 volts, making the motor windings into heating windings.
We replaced it with a 12 gauge cord and the problem disappeared.
Do you have access to an amp meter?
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Misplaced Aussie
starting to shine!
Shoulda left it there
Member since February 2012
Posts: 40
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Post by Misplaced Aussie on Mar 12, 2019 23:14:49 GMT -5
Thanks for all the advice. I will do the capacitor. If that don't work I will get the windings checked by a rewinder and check all the insulation.
Not in any hurry, it's not like I bought it yesterday, and I do have my Frantom that I can play around with. Still tumbling off course, I have literally a couple of tons of petrified wood, agates, jaspers that I have collected over the years. Luckily my wife Karen is a photographer so my hobby is far less expensive than hers, and she also loves to go rockhounding with me.
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Misplaced Aussie
starting to shine!
Shoulda left it there
Member since February 2012
Posts: 40
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Post by Misplaced Aussie on Mar 13, 2019 0:02:55 GMT -5
My uncle had a 1 1/2 hp motor running his 24" slab saw. The motor ran so hot he had a fan blowing on it all the time. The problem? The power was delivered by an 18 gauge extension cord. this dropped 120 volts down to about 80 volts, making the motor windings into heating windings. We replaced it with a 12 gauge cord and the problem disappeared. Do you have access to an amp meter? I am sure I can get access. How do I use it? I cannot remember what I used earlier but this time a very heavy extension cord but it is a long one, at least 20'. I will try a direct hit to a power point. I did not know that voltage drops in an extension cord, I used to be a toolmaker/fitter/turner/machinist/mechanical engineer/accountant, not an electrician. Oh well, one is never too old to learn. Tim |
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Misplaced Aussie
starting to shine!
Shoulda left it there
Member since February 2012
Posts: 40
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Post by Misplaced Aussie on Mar 13, 2019 0:09:50 GMT -5
Could it be by design? I don't know anything about the Genie's (or much about anything for that matter), but my CabKing will burn your hand if you touch the motor after running a bit and they have stickers warning of that in addition to mentioning it in the manual. I don't think it is by design, more by lack of cooling. The motor is totally enclosed which could make the motor run hotter than one that is not fully enclosed thereby letting the heat escape a bit better, but I doubt it should run as hot as mine is. Other owners have said they have had no heat problems, some have though. Tim |
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Post by pauls on Mar 13, 2019 0:30:35 GMT -5
Running off an extension cord, make sure the cord is not coiled, that can work as a choke/ inductor and can cause overheating even fire, usually of the cord but could be inducing all sorts of dirty voltages into the cord and the motor.
Faulty start capacitor will usually mean it wont start at all, will just hum unless you give it a flick to get it started, could be fauly governor or switch points not switching the start winding out when it gets to running speed.
My 2c worth.
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Post by catmandewe on Mar 13, 2019 1:11:51 GMT -5
Capacitor is 95% of the time the culprit.
Easy to replace, the newer capacitors do not fit back in perfectly as they are fatter, so you may have to do a little shop engineering to get the bracket to hold it securely again but its not a big deal.
Tony
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Post by 1dave on Mar 13, 2019 1:15:03 GMT -5
Do you have access to an amp meter? I am sure I can get access. How do I use it? I cannot remember what I used earlier but this time a very heavy extension cord but it is a long one, at least 20'. I will try a direct hit to a power point. I did not know that voltage drops in an extension cord, I used to be a toolmaker/fitter/turner/machinist/mechanical engineer/accountant, not an electrician. Oh well, one is never too old to learn. Tim Just clamp it around one wire. A volt meter will show if you have voltage drop. Read at the outlet, then at the end of the cord or at the motor. |
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Post by stephan on Mar 13, 2019 7:51:04 GMT -5
No help here, but I'm just thinking that with those search terms, it's a good thing you used RTH, not Google.
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,504
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Post by Sabre52 on Mar 13, 2019 8:35:59 GMT -5
My Genie motor caught on fire and burnt up years ago. Had to buy a whole new arbor. Was told later about the capacitor problem but I don't know that I had any warning before it burned up so that would have done me no good at all. Another common Genie problem to watch out for is getting water on the base board. It's made of junky chipboard on mine and when I moved to Texas, the humidity immediately and badly warped the base. It's bowed like the rocker on a rocking chair now *L*......Mel
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Misplaced Aussie
starting to shine!
Shoulda left it there
Member since February 2012
Posts: 40
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Post by Misplaced Aussie on Mar 13, 2019 13:48:44 GMT -5
pauls, yay Bendigo, the home of 860 tons of gold, betya you know how to pan for gold. You should have said "tuppence worth" but deferring to today's currency I suppose it's ok. In still think in inches etc, stuff the metric s..t. I grew up in Orange, next to Ophir where payable gold was first "officially" discovered in NSW. Banjo Patterson was born just outside Orange on the road going to Ophir.
Thanks for the advice.
I plugged the Genie directly into the power outlet and it heated up just as bad, so onto the next possible solution, replacing the capacitor.
Catmandewe, I will replace the capacitor after I buy one
1dave, wilco, will do.
stephan, google, nah, I use duckduckgo. But, the search menu on RTH gives very good choices
Sabre52, I thought nothing could go wrong in Texas (smile). I hate anything made from chipboard, little bit of water and its buggered. My house is furnished with pre-owned maple and other hardwood stuff that I refinished. Still have a garage full of stuff to do and sell, wont fit in house. Hard to find time to do anything other than rocks, rocks, and rocks.
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Misplaced Aussie
starting to shine!
Shoulda left it there
Member since February 2012
Posts: 40
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Post by Misplaced Aussie on Mar 13, 2019 13:50:35 GMT -5
$40.50 is cost of capacitor from DP. Is there an alternative cheaper solution?
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Post by pauls on Mar 13, 2019 14:35:34 GMT -5
$40.50 is cost of capacitor from DP. Is there an alternative cheaper solution? Try a local electrical store, where electricians go to get their stuff not a whitegoods store. You want the same capacitance, not necessarily the same voltage, so if yours is 2uF 115V you could go 2uF 220V with no trouble. I recently bought a couple of start capacitors from China, Aliexpress for $5 each. The Gold mine at Fosterville not far from me recently mined their millionth ounce of gold, so yeah still a lot of gold around, all my grandparents and great grandparents were miners so I guess it runs in the veins, we had some fabulously rich gold mines in the family, sadly I didn't inherit any of it. Most of them were just miners though working hard and nothing to show for it, they were hard times for most. |
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Misplaced Aussie
starting to shine!
Shoulda left it there
Member since February 2012
Posts: 40
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Post by Misplaced Aussie on Mar 13, 2019 15:12:34 GMT -5
You're up early. It's a 370 vac 6uf. I will have to find out if that is what is what it is supposed to be. Orange has the nearby Cadia mine, don't know how much they are getting, it all started after I left Orange and went to Sydney. Of my 7 siblings, and 3 kids only one brother left in Orange now.
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Misplaced Aussie
starting to shine!
Shoulda left it there
Member since February 2012
Posts: 40
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Post by Misplaced Aussie on Mar 13, 2019 15:26:49 GMT -5
Looks like the following is the answer. 2MDV5 is $5.61 at Grainger.
Apr 4, 2018 11:44:21 GMT -4 johnjsgems said:
Hi, wanted to pass on this information. It is common on older Genies that are purchased after long term storage to have a bad run capacitor. If not replaced the motor will draw excessive amps, run even hotter than normal and burn up. Replacement from manufacturer is $39. A customer just purchased a replacement from Grainger (part number2MDV5) for a whopping $4.70. His Genie is from about 1979 and the oval capacitor fits right in the mount. Newer units could have round capacitors so a little "adjustment" of mount strap may be required. Cheap way to save a $475 OEM motor only available from manufacturer. The totally enclosed Genie motor runs very hot normally. With an amp meter the motor with good capacitor draws around 3 amps. With bad capacitor over 13 amps.
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