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Post by stardiamond on Apr 4, 2019 12:10:32 GMT -5
I have a few thousand cabochons I've cut over the years; 10% are really special and maybe another 20% are nice. The weakest part of my cabbing is perfect girdles. I think I have maxed out on my skill level and I don't like the idea of selling less than perfect work. I was thinking of setting some in silver with a simple setting and bail. The setting would cover my inadequacy. I have a few questions:
1. What is the time range for you to set a cab with a simple setting and bail?
2. I'm also trying to figure out what a set cab would sell for. ebay has low priced junk and the prices I see on Etsy are dreams. I would like to know what a really nice silver set jasper pendant should sell for with better scenes than most of the pendants I've seen there.
3. For a symmetrical cab, how difficult is it to get the pendant to hang correctly.
Thanks.
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Post by fernwood on Apr 4, 2019 12:27:12 GMT -5
Can you post an example of what you plan to do? Cut a backing, apply a bezel and bail?
I have seen some similar at local craft/art shows and galleries range from $15.00 to $50.00.
When one counts the cost of making the cab, materials and time spent from start to finish, the $15.00 seemed pretty low to me. These are sold by the people who make them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2019 13:05:40 GMT -5
If you typically polish the backs, then step bezel wire would be quick and simple to do. Electroforming (can be simple or more complex organic designs as MsAli has been doing) is also a great way to hide rough edges and add a bail without soldering: fill any chips, glue on whatever you want as the bail, use metallic paint to cover the area you want to be metal, then electroplate.
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Post by stardiamond on Apr 4, 2019 13:06:14 GMT -5
Cut a backing, apply a bezel and bail? Yes, a very simple setting. I am not interested in setting anything other than something very unusual; a best example of the material. I have been interested in creating not generating any income from selling. The hourly wage for a silver set cab for $15-50 would be very low. Read more: forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/87032/cabochon-pendant#ixzz5k9JjF4GB
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Post by MsAli on Apr 4, 2019 13:31:26 GMT -5
"I would like to know what a really nice silver set jasper pendant should sell for with better scenes than most of the pendants I've seen there"
I think this all depends on the material and metal used.
This is also a pretty competitive market so you really have to market your work as well which helps sales
@rocks2dust has some good ideas and I am sure others that do metal work will chime in as well
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2019 13:47:42 GMT -5
I think this all depends on the material and metal used. This is also a pretty competitive market so you really have to market your work as well which helps sales Good point. I would suggest only setting the most attractive of the rarer/uncommon stones you've cabbed. Unless you are an up-and-coming Carl Faberge for the 21st century, it is impossible to compete with factory-produced jewelry that uses the more commonly available gems (even though their stones and metalwork very often aren't finished nearly as well as North American and European lapidary and jewelry work). There is always going to be a market for the less common gem varieties. Your other cabs will probably give a better return if sold as loose stones (even with girdle chips, probably better made than a similar piece cut in a sweat shop).
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Post by rockjunquie on Apr 4, 2019 13:51:18 GMT -5
Since you would be new, I assume, to soldering you would need tools and you would be slow and not so proficient at it.
In my personal opinion- you could list special cabs and make better money AND quicker money with no work other than what you already put into it. People are always willing to spend on hand crafted US lapidary artist created cabochons of good material. Getting into jewelry is VERY competitive. Some of the prices I see on etsy for really great pieces makes me wonder what they are paying themselves!
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Post by rockjunquie on Apr 4, 2019 13:52:15 GMT -5
Ooops- @rocks2dust, just saw your post. I was typing when you posted.
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Post by MsAli on Apr 4, 2019 14:14:06 GMT -5
Since you would be new, I assume, to soldering you would need tools and you would be slow and not so proficient at it. In my personal opinion- you could list special cabs and make better money AND quicker money with no work other than what you already put into it. People are always willing to spend on hand crafted US lapidary artist created cabochons of good material. Getting into jewelry is VERY competitive. Some of the prices I see on etsy for really great pieces makes me wonder what they are paying themselves! I agree it is VERY competitive, and you cant forget to factor in the start up costs and what you lose in practicing. You really have to do a mix of the "popular" stones that everyone is doing and yet set yourself apart and do things that no one else is doing.
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Post by rockjunquie on Apr 4, 2019 14:18:39 GMT -5
Since you would be new, I assume, to soldering you would need tools and you would be slow and not so proficient at it. In my personal opinion- you could list special cabs and make better money AND quicker money with no work other than what you already put into it. People are always willing to spend on hand crafted US lapidary artist created cabochons of good material. Getting into jewelry is VERY competitive. Some of the prices I see on etsy for really great pieces makes me wonder what they are paying themselves! I agree it is VERY competitive, and you cant forget to factor in the start up costs and what you lose in practicing. You really have to do a mix of the "popular" stones that everyone is doing and yet set yourself apart and do things that no one else is doing. It really is insane how many people sell jewelry on etsy. It's great for the consumer, not so great for the artist. Hard to compete with China and housewives who are doing it as a hobby.
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Post by stardiamond on Apr 4, 2019 14:21:58 GMT -5
An example of a cab that I would set is my avatar picture. It doesn't make sense to me set a nice cab and sell it. Anything I would set would need to be unusual and very special. I've been cutting cabs for close to 20 years and am really not sure what they are other than a collectable. Mine are in riker boxes on a shelf.
I like photography and cabs are cropped scenes. Setting them makes them jewelry, but my emphasis is on the stone.
My wife started learning to silversmith. I have silver and some tools and I believe there is a place to do the work and some training at the local lapidary club. I don't know if I have any aptitude but need to see if I should consider it.
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Post by rockjunquie on Apr 4, 2019 14:27:54 GMT -5
I would call that a special stone. Sounds like you already decided to try your hand at jewelry. Good luck- your stones are certainly nice enough.
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Post by opalpyrexia on Apr 4, 2019 14:31:16 GMT -5
1. What is the time range for you to set a cab with a simple setting and bail? 2. I'm also trying to figure out what a set cab would sell for. ebay has low priced junk and the prices I see on Etsy are dreams. I would like to know what a really nice silver set jasper pendant should sell for with better scenes than most of the pendants I've seen there. 3. For a symmetrical cab, how difficult is it to get the pendant to hang correctly.
Here's a few thoughts that you might find helpful...
Create and solder the setting: For a small to medium sized cab with a simple round or oval shape, maybe 30 minutes if all goes well. More time would be required for large cabs, cabs with corners, convex curves.
Make the bail: Depends. I mostly use bails purchased from Rio Grande. Solder it on: 10 minutes or so.
Set the cab, clean up the metal and polish: varies, maybe 30 minutes average
Get a cab to hang the way you want: Tape a length of string to the backplate and suspend it in your hand; adjust until you find the correct location for the bail. Maybe tape the cab in, too. To be 100% sure, rather than attaching with a wire loop, solder the bail directly to the bezel or to the backplate edge. Or solder twin hidden bails to the backplate, which is something that I like to do with larger cabs.
Pricing? That's really tough. One thing that will enable you to command a higher price is by adding small accent cabs or faceted stones to your pieces. Of course, that increases fabrication time and cost.
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Post by MsAli on Apr 4, 2019 14:45:42 GMT -5
I agree it is VERY competitive, and you cant forget to factor in the start up costs and what you lose in practicing. You really have to do a mix of the "popular" stones that everyone is doing and yet set yourself apart and do things that no one else is doing. It really is insane how many people sell jewelry on etsy. It's great for the consumer, not so great for the artist. Hard to compete with China and housewives who are doing it as a hobby. Tons of jewelry but a ton of it the same. I love labradorite and moonstone, but am really sick of seeing it EVERYTHING and once you come up with something different within a few days it is copied which can be extremely frustrating. I find I have more pieces that I wear than I sell. Which is fine, I didn't get into it to be my sole source of income and I like what I make. It just would be nice to sell more than I do.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2019 15:45:54 GMT -5
I'll also add again that there are other niches where your cabs could be used and sold at higher prices than necklaces and rings. They can be used to embellish and take to a whole 'nother level things like boxes, cases and other containers (wood or metal), implements (such as executive desk sets), furniture and cabinetry, hardware (such as pulls and knobs), architectural ornaments, insets for custom tile or stone backsplashes, cane handles, and whatever else your imagination can conceive. I've bought or sought such items myself over the years and mostly have been frustrated by the dearth of selection (or sky-high cost for things with common stones with unremarkable or shoddy workmanship, even from high-end retailers who handle such). Tiffany, Cartier, Faberge and even mom and pop jewelers used to make such things but they are few and far between in this mass-market age even at the higher end. Even jewelry used to be presented in Jewel Caskets (when was the last time you saw one of those - the old ones are still out there at astronomical prices).
Carve out a niche for something you enjoy making or modifying/improving that can utilize your cabs - be the big fish in the small pond.
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Post by stardiamond on Apr 4, 2019 16:47:20 GMT -5
I don't want to work with material that could be copied.
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Post by MsAli on Apr 4, 2019 17:20:21 GMT -5
I don't want to work with material that could be copied. I haven't cut any cabs recently and am having trouble posting pictures. I posted a link to imgbox and the site migth display objectional content. In that case I will edit out the link. link edited out. Try tapatalk
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Post by rockpickerforever on Apr 4, 2019 17:21:29 GMT -5
I'll also add again that there are other niches where your cabs could be used and sold at higher prices than necklaces and rings. They can be used to embellish and take to a whole 'nother level things like boxes, cases and other containers (wood or metal), implements (such as executive desk sets), furniture and cabinetry, hardware (such as pulls and knobs), architectural ornaments, insets for custom tile or stone backsplashes, cane handles, and whatever else your imagination can conceive. Several years back, Chuck Drummond Island Rocks made some drawer pulls to match his new kitchen countertops. Some of the photos are AWOL, but enough there to get the idea. taken for granite This is a project you would most likely do for yourself, or (good) friends and family. Very time and labor intensive, most people would not understand what is involved, and wouldn't want to pay you what it cost for you to make them.
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Post by toiv0 on Apr 4, 2019 19:13:26 GMT -5
Who are you targeting for sales? Most people don't have the knowledge of a high end cab vs a cab that is marginal. There is more times than not something I don't care for sells first and one I think is awesome sits staring at me. People have to not just like it but love it, but I must say there is no better feeling than someone spending their hard earned money on something I created. My time to produce a piece is close to opalpyrexia and he has excellent advise. The bigger the piece the more silver you use and the harder it is not to screw it up. I probably give away as much in value as I sell. I do recover costs for silver and to satisfy my addiction to tools. I have taught several people to silversmith and the basic learning curve is usually pretty quick for the mechanical part of it. Creativity and vision cannot be taught and is probably more important than just the smithing or cab. I love the avatar cab and also the Montana is off the chart cool.
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Don
Cave Dweller
He wants you too, Malachi.
Member since December 2009
Posts: 2,616
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Post by Don on Apr 5, 2019 15:48:57 GMT -5
Making a bezel is a fairly simple unless the cabochon is very large, however fabrication is not the time sink. The bulk of my labor goes into finishing and polishing work.
Pricing is complicated, but things to consider are cost of materials, shipping costs from your supplier for materials, tools/equipment used to produce the piece, overhead (electricity, water, gas, etc), labor, listing fees, selling fees, processing fees, fees calculated listing shipping price, packaging supplies, gift boxes, bags, shipping costs to the customer, fuel cost for delivering the package to the post office, etc., and then multiply that by your margin/markup multiplier. How much profit do you want out of the product? If you're selling at cost, you're not making any money or not properly evaluating your costs, you're probably losing money.
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