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Post by parfive on May 17, 2019 17:04:34 GMT -5
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gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,059
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Post by gemfeller on May 17, 2019 17:07:20 GMT -5
I'm in the "purist" camp but first I agree with Rockindad : we have to define what a cab is before we can set any particular contest rules. I've noticed that these days almost any lapidary creation is classified as a cab, including carvings and beads. I don't agree with that. But I don't think any particular style of cabochon should be idealized either. I've cut and set many a stone with no defined girdle beyond it being the outer perimeter of the stone with a very tiny angle. In bezel setting the slightest girdle angle, say 3 degrees, is sufficient to hold a stone very firmly. Prong settings offer even more setting options. When cutting fire agates, for instance, I used to bevel some stones' sides' inward so the top of the stone was flush with the surface of the jewelry piece. It was held in place tightly with small prongs. Of course those were custom-made pieces and not common -- but they were cabs. Wire wrapping has different requirements. What's needed is some general agreement as to what a cab is and how it should be fashioned. Then a contest can be built around that definition. There are other issues as well: unequal cutting equipment and experience. I don't know how to overcome those problems.
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Post by MsAli on May 17, 2019 17:17:27 GMT -5
Several sites looked at as to what is the Definition of cabochon
: a gem or bead cut in convex form and highly polished but not faceted
a precious stone of convex hemispherical or oval form, polished but not cut into facets.
A gem that has been polished but not faceted.
1. any precious stone cut in convex shape, polished but not faceted 2. the style of cutting such a stone
In the gemstone world, a "cabochon" is a stone that has been cut (or shaped) with a highly-polished rounded, domed or convex top, with no faceting of any kind. The bottoms of cabochons are described as "flat", but many will have slightly curved or undulated bases. Cabochons are often left with slightly rough or unfinished bottoms, which makes it easier for jewelers to mount them into jewelry settings. Cabochons may be cut into any shape, although oval is by far the most common.
Not one mentions the girdle has to be this, or the shape has to be this, or you have to do it from a template, or you cant finish it this way or that way
And I think that is what gets confusing
Who made the rules that it has to meet this certain requirement to be considered a "true" cab
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Post by Rockindad on May 17, 2019 17:29:29 GMT -5
I'm in the "purist" camp but first I agree with Rockindad : we have to define what a cab is before we can set any particular contest rules. I've noticed that these days almost any lapidary creation is classified as a cab, including carvings and beads. I don't agree with that. But I don't think any particular style of cabochon should be idealized either. I've cut and set many a stone with no defined girdle beyond it being the outer perimeter of the stone with a very tiny angle. In bezel setting the slightest girdle angle, say 3 degrees, is sufficient to hold a stone very firmly. Prong settings offer even more setting options. When cutting fire agates, for instance, I used to bevel some stones' sides' inward so the top of the stone was flush with the surface of the jewelry piece. It was held in place tightly with small prongs. Of course those were custom-made pieces and not common -- but they were cabs. Wire wrapping has different requirements. What's needed is some general agreement as to what a cab is and how it should be fashioned. Then a contest can be built around that definition. There are other issues as well: unequal cutting equipment and experience. I don't know how to overcome those problems. I don't think a completely level playing field is possible or desirable. I like this place because of what I can soak up here being surrounded by people with more experience and better equipment than me. I know it only makes me better and I will reach their level, and perhaps exceed it, if I keep learning and practicing. If that means they kick my butt month after month in a friendly contest so be it. My day will come. Al
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Post by MsAli on May 17, 2019 17:31:24 GMT -5
I'm in the "purist" camp but first I agree with Rockindad : we have to define what a cab is before we can set any particular contest rules. I've noticed that these days almost any lapidary creation is classified as a cab, including carvings and beads. I don't agree with that. But I don't think any particular style of cabochon should be idealized either. I've cut and set many a stone with no defined girdle beyond it being the outer perimeter of the stone with a very tiny angle. In bezel setting the slightest girdle angle, say 3 degrees, is sufficient to hold a stone very firmly. Prong settings offer even more setting options. When cutting fire agates, for instance, I used to bevel some stones' sides' inward so the top of the stone was flush with the surface of the jewelry piece. It was held in place tightly with small prongs. Of course those were custom-made pieces and not common -- but they were cabs. Wire wrapping has different requirements. What's needed is some general agreement as to what a cab is and how it should be fashioned. Then a contest can be built around that definition. There are other issues as well: unequal cutting equipment and experience. I don't know how to overcome those problems. I don't think a completely level playing field is possible or desirable. I like this place because of what I can soak up here being surrounded by people with more experience and better equipment than me. I know it only makes me better and I will reach their level, and perhaps exceed it, if I keep learning and practicing. If that means they kick my butt month after month in a friendly contest so be it. My day will come.
AlLOVE THAT KIND OF ATTITUDE!
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Post by Rockindad on May 17, 2019 17:35:08 GMT -5
Pfft! Wannabe! Just kidding, I like your side boob stone! Al
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Post by rockjunquie on May 17, 2019 17:54:44 GMT -5
I've never thought a cab HAD to have a girdle. That just seems to be the fashion now. There was a time when no girdle, hi domes were the thing.
A flat back is a must, though.
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Post by MsAli on May 17, 2019 17:56:37 GMT -5
I've never thought a cab HAD to have a girdle. That just seems to be the fashion now. There was a time when no girdle, hi domes were the thing. A flat back is a must, though. That's what I've been trying to find. When did the girdle come in?
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Post by rockjunquie on May 17, 2019 17:59:31 GMT -5
I've never thought a cab HAD to have a girdle. That just seems to be the fashion now. There was a time when no girdle, hi domes were the thing. A flat back is a must, though. That's what I've been trying to find. When did the girdle come in? I have no idea. But, even saying it has to be domed is wrong. I really like and prefer buff tops with a nice sharp girdle. I think they technically have a bit of a dome, but they look flat.
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Post by rockpickerforever on May 17, 2019 18:24:37 GMT -5
Tuscarora Lapidary Society, Inc. Skill Improvement Program Rules Regulations Judging Instructions Tuscarora Lapidary Society 24 Upland Road Brookhaven, PA 19015 610h490h5252 www.lapidary.org© Tuscarora Lapidary Society, Inc. All Rights Reserved. No part of this document may be sold, reproduced, or transmitted in any form, physical, digital or electronic. TLS does grant individuals and non-profit clubs permission to freely download, use, and reproduce this document under the condition that it be clearly attributed to TLS and that the copyright notice remain intact. 2 SKIP — The TLS Skill Improvement Program
Tuscarora’s Skill Improvement Program (SKIP) is dedicated to increasing enjoyment of our hobby by the
development of higher levels of craftsmanship. Each member is given the opportunity to have his/her work evaluated in relationship to standards of workmanship. These standards become progressively more rigorous as the member’s skill increases. 3 CABOCHON DIVISION
Definitions
A cabochon is a polished stone with a domed surface (the top), cut freehand (not tumbled). The second surface (the
back) may be flat or domed. If domed, it may be of lesser height than the front dome. A cabochon is normally of a
size suitable to be worn as jewelry.
A standard cabochon is one whose girdle outline has at least one axis of symmetry. All patterns on the standard
templates satisfy this condition.
A free-form cabochon is one whose girdle outline has no symmetry.
The bezel angle is the slope that is cut on the side of a cabochon for a short distance above the girdle; it should
be uniform around the stone. Its purpose is to allow the bezel of a mounting to be rolled or pressed down against
the stone to secure it in the mount. It should be in the range of 10 to 15 degrees. The dome may meet the bezel
angle surface in a definite line, parallel to the girdle, or may blend in smoothly down to the girdle.
The chamfer or bevel is a narrow angled surface cut around the girdle of a cabochon toward the back to reduce
the likelihood of chipping. It should be about 45 degrees, of uniform width, not wider than 1mm except on very
large stones.
Note that cabochons with two domed surfaces have no chamfer, and that the angle at which the back surfaces
meet the girdle may be much larger than the bezel angle on the front. Ideally, the girdle in this case would be
sharp. Because of chipping, this is not practical and the girdle must be slightly and smoothly rounded.
The symmetry overall refers to the contour of the domed surfaces, not to the shape of the girdle.
Orientation refers to the shaping of the stone to make best use of its natural patterns, color distribution, and
inclusions to show chatoyancy, cat’s-eye, star, or to otherwise enhance the beauty of the finished piece.
Examples that illustrate the definitions
Material
A cabochon may be made of any suitable natural mineral or any synthetic mineral-like material, such as
goldstone. The quality of the material refers to color, pattern, freedom from cracks, pits, etc. 4 Point Allocation for Evaluation STANDARD CABOCHONS Accuracy of girdle outline* 15 Symmetry overall (shaping of top & sides) Top 10 Sides 10 Quality of polish Top 10 Sides 10 Orientation 10 Quality of material 15 Bezel angle 10 Chamfer or bevel 5 Back 5 Perfection 100 points *Free form cabochons: For accuracy of girdle outline, substitute complexity of form attempted. Polished flats will not qualify in the Cabochon Division.JudgingAccuracy of girdle outline: For traditional shapes — check by placing template over (or carefully tracing outline)
then placing template over traced outline, then cutting out and folding; freeform — shape that exhibits skill.
Symmetry overall: Make a light move over the stone. If the reflection changes shape or jumps, instead of
moving evenly over the top, then symmetry is off (flat spots).
Quality of polish: Check by looking at light reflection on stone (use a clear light bulb). Softer stones may not
take as high a polish, nor will stones of mixed minerals.
Quality of material: Take into consideration the quality for this particular material.
Bezel angle: The interface between the bezel and the top should be either smoothly rounded or have a nice
sharp edge.
Chamfer: Must be even all around — no chips.
Bottom: All stones submitted should be clean on the backs, with all saw marks, all aluminum pencil, or other
marks sanded off. Cabochons with two domes must have both polished. Clear or translucent material
cabochons must be polished on the back as well.
Judging will be done using 10X magnification. Tuscarora’s Skill Improvement Program (SKIP) is dedicated to increasing enjoyment of our hobby by the development of higher levels of craftsmanship. SKIP program Information on entry requirements and different levels of craftsmanship PDF HERE
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Post by rockpickerforever on May 17, 2019 19:00:51 GMT -5
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pizzano
Cave Dweller
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,390
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Post by pizzano on May 17, 2019 19:07:53 GMT -5
Thank You Jean..........!
I don't cab......as you know......but appreciate the skill (and proper tools) it takes........as well as the "rules" that govern the technical process.
I had followed this thread as a curiosity for more knowledge, until various "what if's" started popping up........lost interest when the "competition" factor started reflecting the "kick my butt", "meet or exceed" those who do this for financial gain as "pro's"...........fun, friendly or otherwise.......competitions can have their "down-sides" as well........this "revived" adventure looks to have a nice flexible approach.
Anyway, the post you provided most certainly helps define the "absolutes".............of which a few very experienced and helpful "masters" here at RTH adhere to...and I might add, who often receive a return on their "investment".
Always love your "cut through the chase", get down to brass tax" information.....truly a "wizard" at such....!
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Post by rockpickerforever on May 17, 2019 19:19:53 GMT -5
Thanks, Joe. pizzanoYou wouldn't believe how long I have been looking to come up with that! Jean
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NDK
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 9,440
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Post by NDK on May 17, 2019 21:13:42 GMT -5
I do enjoy the current contest. I don't cut cabs very often and this gives me motivation to get 1 done occasionally.
But I will admit I really enjoyed the previous contest as well. The point about level playing field is lost on me because back then I was just getting into this hobby and really enjoyed the challenge. You really had to step up to compete with the other entries. Of all the contests I entered I won one contest and was so excited! Most times I was lucky to get a vote.
So I have to say both contests have their merits.
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Post by rockpickerforever on May 17, 2019 21:25:48 GMT -5
I do enjoy the current contest. I don't cut cabs very often and this gives me motivation to get 1 done occasionally. But I will admit I really enjoyed the previous contest as well. The point about level playing field is lost on me because back then I was just getting into this hobby and really enjoyed the challenge. You really had to step up to compete with the other entries. Of all the contests I entered I won one contest and was so excited! Most times I was lucky to get a vote. So I have to say both contests have their merits. Don't feel bad, Nate. I've been doing this for a long time, and I have only won a couple times. But that's not really but the point. The point is to have fun, learn and get better! (Winning isn't everything)
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Post by rockjunquie on May 17, 2019 21:30:01 GMT -5
Anyway, the post you provided most certainly helps define the "absolutes".............of which a few very experienced and helpful "masters" here at RTH adhere to...and I might add, who often receive a return on their "investment".
Why mince words? What the hell exactly are you trying to say? I don't like your tone or insinuation... unless I took you wrong. I don't care WHO you are referring to, it just sounds shitty.
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Post by rockjunquie on May 17, 2019 21:31:11 GMT -5
I do enjoy the current contest. I don't cut cabs very often and this gives me motivation to get 1 done occasionally. But I will admit I really enjoyed the previous contest as well. The point about level playing field is lost on me because back then I was just getting into this hobby and really enjoyed the challenge. You really had to step up to compete with the other entries. Of all the contests I entered I won one contest and was so excited! Most times I was lucky to get a vote. So I have to say both contests have their merits. Don't feel bad, Nate. I've been doing this for a long time, and I have only won a couple times. But that's not really but the point. The point is to have fun, learn and get better! (Winning isn't everything) Hey, I rarely win. But, I don't play that often, either. I usually end being my only vote for me. LOL!
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Post by rockjunquie on May 17, 2019 21:34:28 GMT -5
Jean, rockpickerforever The short lived technical skill cab contest rules were based on the first set of rules you found above. I guess anyone can make rules. We can for our purposes, too. I'm fine with the way the game is now, but the subject WAS brought up, so I chimed in. However, I do strongly disagree with a cab not being flat on the back. A jeweler can't really set a rocking cab.
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Post by rockpickerforever on May 18, 2019 0:29:32 GMT -5
Jean, rockpickerforever The short lived technical skill cab contest rules were based on the first set of rules you found above. I guess anyone can make rules. We can for our purposes, too. I'm fine with the way the game is now, but the subject WAS brought up, so I chimed in. However, I do strongly disagree with a cab not being flat on the back. A jeweler can't really set a rocking cab. Tela, weren't the cabs sent to you for judging for the "winner take all" contest? Maybe that was a little too technical for this crowd. If cabbers already think they know it all, I'm sure they feel there is no room for improvement. It really doesn't matter to me what is decided, if a free-for-all would make everyone happy. I've already decided not to play any reindeer games. Some people take it all a little too seriously. Now I gotta go enter my cat in a dog show...
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Post by Garage Rocker on May 18, 2019 1:55:22 GMT -5
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