Benathema
has rocks in the head
God chased me down and made sure I knew He was real June 20, 2022. I've been on a Divine Mission.
Member since November 2019
Posts: 703
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Post by Benathema on Dec 7, 2019 2:36:17 GMT -5
Oh Goody... The ole' concrete razzle dazzle... --------------------------------------------------------------- Week 5: 60/90 SiC. 1418g. Running mass loss 14.3%
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Post by RocksInNJ on Dec 7, 2019 2:51:16 GMT -5
Same thing happened to me recently. Only mine somehow managed to blow the screw off without stripping it and it was on tight too. My slurry was thick too, but not nearly that thick and I’m wondering if it had anything to do with the kitty litter I used. It could’ve been due to the cold weather that night, but yours looks to be inside.
Looking good, though I’m thinking those fractures up top are gonna be really tough to get rid of.
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Benathema
has rocks in the head
God chased me down and made sure I knew He was real June 20, 2022. I've been on a Divine Mission.
Member since November 2019
Posts: 703
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Post by Benathema on Dec 7, 2019 3:09:56 GMT -5
Those may just become a feature. There's a few more spots I'm trying to smooth down. It may get to a point where it's close enough and I'll push it through. The grinding has exposed a gray coloring, which is kind of meh... It's from an area where there's also a bunch of smokey quartz, so maybe that's part of the reason for the gray.
Yea, that was a mess to clean up. I think it's because I seeded the barrel with slurry that was mixed in with a prepolish cleanout that had sugar in it. I've had a similar issue with barrels popping using the sugar mud. Pretty sure there's some little monsters in there feeding on the sugar and end up burping till they pop the barrels.
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Post by RocksInNJ on Dec 7, 2019 11:12:00 GMT -5
Those may just become a feature. There's a few more spots I'm trying to smooth down. It may get to a point where it's close enough and I'll push it through. The grinding has exposed a gray coloring, which is kind of meh... It's from an area where there's also a bunch of smokey quartz, so maybe that's part of the reason for the gray. Yea, that was a mess to clean up. I think it's because I seeded the barrel with slurry that was mixed in with a prepolish cleanout that had sugar in it. I've had a similar issue with barrels popping using the sugar mud. Pretty sure there's some little monsters in there feeding on the sugar and end up burping till they pop the barrels. Well that’s interesting that you to used something to thicken the slurry. Next time I use the kitty litter I’m going to burp the barrels every day instead of every two and see if that helps. Blow outs are no fun. Luckily I didn’t get much on the motor, so didn’t have to worry about it getting inside, but the rollers worried me and wiped them down really good and then oiled the bearings again to be safe. I probably should have taken them off and cleaned them, but am hoping I did a good job and the bearings will be ok.
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Benathema
has rocks in the head
God chased me down and made sure I knew He was real June 20, 2022. I've been on a Divine Mission.
Member since November 2019
Posts: 703
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Post by Benathema on Dec 13, 2019 3:22:44 GMT -5
Week 6: 60/90 SiC. 1380g. Running mass loss 16.6% Getting closer! I'm giving it at least another week. There's a few spots on the back that I'm hoping to smooth down (preserving photo orientation for continuity). The tumblers will get shut down for a couple weeks for the holidays, so next weeks update will be the last until after the new year (also, I'm out of rough grit, so there's that). When it's all said and done I'll probably group all these photos into the first post of the thread. Thaaaanks for taking a peek!
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Post by RocksInNJ on Dec 13, 2019 3:56:36 GMT -5
That’s coming along nicely. Will be patiently waiting for the next update and hope you have a fun and safe holiday.
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Post by greig on Dec 13, 2019 10:17:50 GMT -5
Very cool project. It makes me want to also give it a try. Winter has set in, so I would have to do it inside or use windshield washer fluid to keep from freezing. I look forward to the next update. In the meantime, I will try to figure out where I stashed some quartz and kick away the snow. ;-)
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Post by RocksInNJ on Dec 13, 2019 11:12:15 GMT -5
Very cool project. It makes me want to also give it a try. Winter has set in, so I would have to do it inside or use windshield washer fluid to keep from freezing. I look forward to the next update. In the meantime, I will try to figure out where I stashed some quartz and kick away the snow. ;-) Lol, that’s funny. I was just told about the windshield washer fluid and RV antifreeze trick and have been thinking about trying it myself.
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Post by greig on Dec 13, 2019 14:24:43 GMT -5
I was also told that salt works as an antifreeze
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Post by RocksInNJ on Dec 13, 2019 15:17:15 GMT -5
I was also told that salt works as an antifreeze Not sure I’d be comfortable with salt in fear of wear on the barrels. Plus I think I seen somewhere that someone tried it and it still froze on them. Though I am getting older and my mind isn’t quite what it used to be.
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whyofquartz
spending too much on rocks
So, Africa is smaller than I expected...
Member since December 2019
Posts: 316
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Post by whyofquartz on Dec 13, 2019 18:02:48 GMT -5
I was also told that salt works as an antifreeze Not sure I’d be comfortable with salt in fear of wear on the barrels. Plus I think I seen somewhere that someone tried it and it still froze on them. Though I am getting older and my mind isn’t quite what it used to be. the freezing point of salt water is much lower than fresh water, and dirty water freezes more slowly than clean water but alcohol will not freeze at all. thus the answer is, tumble in vodka.
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Post by knave on Dec 13, 2019 19:00:00 GMT -5
Fun trivia: The entire Fahrenheit scale is based on the temperature that is achieved by blending salt and ice. It’s not a coincidence that the slush in your ice cream freezer is generally right around 0°F!
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Benathema
has rocks in the head
God chased me down and made sure I knew He was real June 20, 2022. I've been on a Divine Mission.
Member since November 2019
Posts: 703
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Post by Benathema on Dec 13, 2019 22:27:46 GMT -5
Alright, maybe I'll dust off this chemistry degree and see what I remember (kind of weird since I'm going for the PhD.). Little tipsy this Friday evening, so sounds like a good time for a little science. Let's see. Colligative properties: The concentration determines the property, not the identity. Example: Freezing point depression and boiling point elevation. Throw salt into water, NaCl, KCl, NaOH - each dissociate into 2 ions. In principle, what salt you use doesn't matter, it's how much you use that determines how low you can drop the freezing/melting point. Quick google search, because I cant remember the math off the top of my head, turns up an example problem for calculating freezing point depression. It's all in Celsius though, so simple enough to convert: C=(F-32)/1.8 --> (1.8*C)+32=F. For a salt like NaCl that dissociates into Na+ and Cl- i=2, for CaCl2 i=3, and then sugar doesn't dissociate so i=1, same deal with alcohol. www.thoughtco.com/freezing-point-depression-example-problem-609493I'd highly doubt salt dissolved in water would tear up a rubber barrel, unless you're talking about a "salt" like an acid HCl or base NaOH. I don't know the rubber chemistry off the top of my head, but rubber stoppers are used for flasks all the time in wet-lab chemistry. Point being, tossing a little salt in there isn't going to change the freezing point much, you need to throw handfuls. Luckily table salt is cheap. NaCl is soluble in water up to 360g/L. Though the wiki didn't say what temperature the solution was and that can change it. Tumbling in Vodka? Just make sure it's not the good stuff. Same deal there with the freezing point. You may find if you're one to keep your whiskey in the freezer that the low concentrations (10% abv) get slushy but the higher concentrations (35%+ abv) stay liquid. That's this whole Colligative Properties thing - it's all about concentration. Antifreeze: ethylene glycol/propylene glycol - glycol is a term related to sugars, but your normal sugar molecule has a molecular formula of C6H12O6 which reduces to the empirical formula of CH2O - which looks like carbon+water, thus the name carbohydrate. Ethylene glycol has a molecular formula of C2H6O2; empirical CH3O which is close to the CH2O. Like I talked about above with the Colligative properties, same deal here Windshield wiper fluid: Often contains methanol CH3OH, not to be confused with ethanol C2H5OH, or propanol/isopropanol C3H7OH. You can drink ethanol, not the others and see/live to tell about it.
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Post by knave on Dec 13, 2019 22:48:26 GMT -5
We used to put ethanol in geothermal loops
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Dec 14, 2019 5:02:50 GMT -5
Lortone barrel caps often get knocked loose and begin leaking when tumbling big rocks. Something about that funky seal getting banged on by the big rock. Well, my 12 pound Lortone barrel did. Thumler barrels don't have this issue. Nor do pipe barrels that use a Fernco cap. Day 1 gas build up warning - 4 inch Fernco cap bulging out 1/2 inch. The next day it should be bulging about an inch. If 2 band clamps are used to hold the cap on the 4" Fernco cap can bulge out up to 2 inches. The 6 inch caps bulge up to 3 inches before blowing off. Just make sure you aim it away from you or cover it with a towel when loosening the band clamps.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Dec 14, 2019 5:25:00 GMT -5
Gas caused by acid and alkaline reactions during coarse grind is something to look at.(remember baking soda and vinegar). ph 4.6 tannic acid rich river water dissolving limestone bedrock at Suwannee River Florida: Talk about gas, alkaline limestone coating on petrified coral being removed during coarse grind using ph 5.5 lake water: And of course 100's of different chemical combinations in tumbling a batch of rocks gets complicated.
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Post by RocksInNJ on Dec 14, 2019 7:40:47 GMT -5
Not sure I’d be comfortable with salt in fear of wear on the barrels. Plus I think I seen somewhere that someone tried it and it still froze on them. Though I am getting older and my mind isn’t quite what it used to be. the freezing point of salt water is much lower than fresh water, and dirty water freezes more slowly than clean water but alcohol will not freeze at all. thus the answer is, tumble in vodka. Lmao, I’d need some rich rocks for that. Would you like that shaken, stirred or tumbled? Ahhh tumbled on the rocks please.
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EricD
Cave Dweller
High in the Mountains
Member since November 2019
Posts: 1,142
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Post by EricD on Dec 14, 2019 9:07:05 GMT -5
Alright, maybe I'll dust off this chemistry degree and see what I remember (kind of weird since I'm going for the PhD.). Little tipsy this Friday evening, so sounds like a good time for a little science. Let's see. Colligative properties: The concentration determines the property, not the identity. Example: Freezing point depression and boiling point elevation. Throw salt into water, NaCl, KCl, NaOH - each dissociate into 2 ions. In principle, what salt you use doesn't matter, it's how much you use that determines how low you can drop the freezing/melting point. Quick google search, because I cant remember the math off the top of my head, turns up an example problem for calculating freezing point depression. It's all in Celsius though, so simple enough to convert: C=(F-32)/1.8 --> (1.8*C)+32=F. For a salt like NaCl that dissociates into Na+ and Cl- i=2, for CaCl2 i=3, and then sugar doesn't dissociate so i=1, same deal with alcohol. www.thoughtco.com/freezing-point-depression-example-problem-609493I'd highly doubt salt dissolved in water would tear up a rubber barrel, unless you're talking about a "salt" like an acid HCl or base NaOH. I don't know the rubber chemistry off the top of my head, but rubber stoppers are used for flasks all the time in wet-lab chemistry. Point being, tossing a little salt in there isn't going to change the freezing point much, you need to throw handfuls. Luckily table salt is cheap. NaCl is soluble in water up to 360g/L. Though the wiki didn't say what temperature the solution was and that can change it. Tumbling in Vodka? Just make sure it's not the good stuff. Same deal there with the freezing point. You may find if you're one to keep your whiskey in the freezer that the low concentrations (10% abv) get slushy but the higher concentrations (35%+ abv) stay liquid. That's this whole Colligative Properties thing - it's all about concentration. Antifreeze: ethylene glycol/propylene glycol - glycol is a term related to sugars, but your normal sugar molecule has a molecular formula of C6H12O6 which reduces to the empirical formula of CH2O - which looks like carbon+water, thus the name carbohydrate. Ethylene glycol has a molecular formula of C2H6O2; empirical CH3O which is close to the CH2O. Like I talked about above with the Colligative properties, same deal here Windshield wiper fluid: Often contains methanol CH3OH, not to be confused with ethanol C2H5OH, or propanol/isopropanol C3H7OH. You can drink ethanol, not the others and see/live to tell about it. The pink -50 RV antifreeze will protect down to as far as you will ever need, is drinkable. It's water, Methyl Alcohol, and red dye.
I have a reaction chart for virtually every produced rubber, all the way into plastics and epoxies, that shows it is beyond safe inside just about any container.
Glycol will eat your rubber barrel in no time flat unless it's an EPDM one. Just don't use automotive antifreeze and you will be fine.
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Post by greig on Dec 14, 2019 12:21:05 GMT -5
I am trying the vodka suggestion now. My speech is slurred and I am having trouble walking, but it seems to be working. I have stopped caring that my tumbler is freezing.
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Post by greig on Dec 14, 2019 12:30:31 GMT -5
Sorry. I think I kinda hijacked this thread. Getting back on track, I am about to try tumbling a large white rock that looks magical fluorescent under short wave UV that I collected from an old zinc mine this summer. I will use some of the technique(s) that I read here, except I won't be grinding or cutting as I don't have an indoor place to set up the tools.
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