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Post by hummingbirdstones2 on Dec 14, 2019 11:00:10 GMT -5
Since this came up in a recent thread, I'm posting the link below to help with IDs of these pretty rocks containing arsenic.
You're not gonna' die if you just happen to pick up a piece - but you should wash your hands thoroughly as soon as possible.
I've heard that the Bumblebee Jasper has been altered enough to make it safer, but I'm not an expert and have always stayed away from that stuff. It's probably like cutting copper ores - safe enough with appropriate precautions.
Here's a photo of our Realgar/Orpiment specimen - snugly inside a thick plastic bag sealed with tape.
This one's definitely not a "finger lickin' good" specimen!
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Post by greig on Dec 14, 2019 12:46:33 GMT -5
The red Realgar will turn into yellow/brown Pararealgar with exposure to light. I am not sure if the clear plastic will remove enough UV to stop that process.
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Post by hummingbirdstones2 on Dec 14, 2019 14:12:03 GMT -5
Yeah, I've read that prolonged exposure will cause it to degrade, but pulling it out to look at from time to time won't hurt it too much.
No worries - this one lives waaaaay back in a flat file drawer, so we're not tempted to take it out and play with it.
Thanks for posting to this thread. I hope lots of people see it. Several members posted to the other thread saying they didn't know about orpiment.
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El JeffA
spending too much on rocks
Member since February 2016
Posts: 353
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Post by El JeffA on Dec 14, 2019 16:58:54 GMT -5
So Vince, are you saying Bumblebee also contains arsenic? I had not heard that before. I’ve slabbed it but never cut cabs from it. Definitely handled it both wet and dry. Jeff A
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Post by rockjunquie on Dec 14, 2019 19:04:31 GMT -5
Thanks! I won't mess with bumble bee or cinnabar. Bumble bee is only as good as the supplier and some of them are iffy.
eta Don't mess with malachite, either, for that matter. At least not the Congo stuff.
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Post by hummingbirdstones2 on Dec 14, 2019 21:46:40 GMT -5
Here are a couple of Mindat page links with info on the composition of Bumblebee. The first is a discussion page with test results down in the replies. The second is the typical Mindat page layout.
There are lots of things that are poisonous if ingested in sufficient quantities, but safe enough with appropriate precautions.
Since I don't have professional credentials declaring me to be an authority on these things, I try to just quote reliable reference sources.
rockjunquie mentions Malachite, and we have a friend who nearly died from cutting that many years ago. He was, however, cutting it DRY without a respirator or dust collection system. Poor guy was new to cutting at that time, and just didn't know that a pretty green rock could do him any harm.
I've cut a bit of Malachite, but have stayed away from the Bumblebee. Have cut Plasma Agate - but it was crappy, with no reds. Haven't cut any Trent, at least as far as I know. Somehow I'm still here, even though I was completely uninformed about anything other than opal when I started cutting everything else... .
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Post by knave on Jul 19, 2020 14:16:39 GMT -5
Can I cut malachite wet?
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Jul 19, 2020 15:01:55 GMT -5
Yes, you can. Copper based rocks should always be cut wet and it's recommended that you wear a respirator or at least a mask. Some of us do, some of us don't. I will usually (not always) wear an N95 mask when I'm cutting copper stuff, but there are lots of people who don't. Lots of water probably keeps most of the bad stuff from becoming airborne.
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Post by knave on Jul 19, 2020 15:03:48 GMT -5
Ok! So Chrysocolla would be on the same level of toxicity?
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Post by hummingbirdstones2 on Jul 19, 2020 15:09:34 GMT -5
Yeah, I used to also set up a small fan blowing across the front of my machine - blowing toward a box fan (blowing outward) in a nearby window.
Didn't worry so much about a mask with a setup like that. They don't seal anyway if you have a beard like I do. I still use a fan blowing across between me and the 10" saws when I'm hand-feeding odd shaped rocks.
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Jul 19, 2020 15:18:25 GMT -5
Ok! So Chrysocolla would be on the same level of toxicity? Yep. Anything that is copper based. Just use common sense. Malachite is notoriously bad to breath, so I would never cut it without lots of water and a mask.
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Post by stephan on Sept 23, 2020 0:47:43 GMT -5
This may be helpful to some people: www.gemsociety.org/article/gemstone-toxicity-table/Take it with a grain of salt, though, since some things that are chemically identical are listed with different toxicities. Generally speaking, as I’ve said before, keeping material wet, and working with adequate ventilation will protect you. For most people, masks will be a false sense of security, since they are typically worn incorrectly. For Some materials, as mentioned above (lead, arsenic, some copper materials), additional precautions may not be a bad idea. That said, I remember one day at the club, when an old-timer licked a rock and commented, “yup, that has arsenic. It tastes like garlic.” I believe he’s still around. For many compounds you can look up the toxicity by their Safety Data Sheets (SDSs). For malachite (copper carbonate, basic), the oral ld50 is 1.35g/kg, meaning a 75kg person would have to ingest about 3 ounces. It is listed as a respiratory irritant, not a danger. People with respiratory conditions, such as asthma, should exercise caution. Those same people should also exercise caution in wearing a respirator, as they restrict breathing. Orpiment (arsenic sulfide), on the other hand, has danger as the signal word, and is immediately gangrenous to life and health (IDLH) at a concentration of 5mg per cubic meter Also remember that just the metal does not make the poison. The counter ion plays a role as well, so not all copper minerals have the same toxicity. You have to figure each one out individually. Finally, ALL dry rock dust poses a physical hazard, due to microscopic sharp edges that can damage lung tissue. This is mostly, independent of chemical formula. Only to the degree that formula determines crystal structure, does it play a role in this regard.
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Post by stephan on Sept 23, 2020 0:59:19 GMT -5
Ok! So Chrysocolla would be on the same level of toxicity? No. Not all copper compounds have the same toxicity. You have to look at the entire chemical formula.
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gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,059
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Post by gemfeller on Sept 23, 2020 1:10:49 GMT -5
Re: Congo Malachite. I used to cut a lot of it. A relative worked in the Congo as a helicopter pilot ferrying rough diamonds from DeBeers mines to the capital. He sent me a lot of fine malachite rough in the form of ashtrays, legal to export, and I went on a cutting spree. I used lots of water while cutting.
I can't recall how long it took or how much I cut before I noticed a strong metallic copper taste in my mouth. I didn't use any protective gear. I had the good sense to quit cutting it so frequently, though I've cut occasional cabs since with no ill effect.
Someone once told me the copper enters the body through the skin as well as the nose and mouth. I don't know if that's true or not but it's definitely a material to be careful with. I often think of the Congolese laborers who cut decorative pieces from it without water or protection for years on end. I doubt they have long lifespans.
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Post by stephan on Sept 23, 2020 1:33:13 GMT -5
Re: Congo Malachite. I used to cut a lot of it. A relative worked in the Congo as a helicopter pilot ferrying rough diamonds from DeBeers mines to the capital. He sent me a lot of fine malachite rough in the form of ashtrays, legal to export, and I went on a cutting spree. I used lots of water while cutting. I can't recall how long it took or how much I cut before I noticed a strong metallic copper taste in my mouth. I didn't use any protective gear. I had the good sense to quit cutting it so frequently, though I've cut occasional cabs since with no ill effect. Someone once told me the copper enters the body through the skin as well as the nose and mouth. I don't know if that's true or not but it's definitely a material to be careful with. I often think of the Congolese laborers who cut decorative pieces from it without water or protection for years on end. I doubt they have long lifespans. For any toxin, there are oral, dermal and respiratory hazards that are different. Usually dermal is the least efficient way. And the overall formula determines the toxicity of each route. i agree with your theory on the lifespans of the laborers.
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