Fossilman
Cave Dweller
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Posts: 20,680
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Post by Fossilman on Feb 1, 2020 11:16:10 GMT -5
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,680
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Post by Fossilman on Feb 1, 2020 11:17:33 GMT -5
This will really raise hell with Glass Buttes now with claim jumpers and unwanted people hauling material by the trk loads!
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Deleted
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Member since January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 12:26:09 GMT -5
This will really raise hell with Glass Buttes now with claim jumpers and unwanted people hauling material by the trk loads! Yes, closing Davis will create more pressure on GB where there has already been a lot of abuse with people without permits taking tons from some pits, claim jumpers, damage to archaeological sites, etc. Hope that the FS & BLM come up with a strategy that allows reopening public collecting at Davis, and might also be extended to GB and similar sites before such drastic action is taken. Suspect that without enough staffing, the closure could be for a very long time, though.
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Post by Rockoonz on Feb 1, 2020 12:48:03 GMT -5
This will really raise hell with Glass Buttes now with claim jumpers and unwanted people hauling material by the trk loads! Yes, closing Davis will create more pressure on GB where there has already been a lot of abuse with people without permits taking tons from some pits, claim jumpers, damage to archaeological sites, etc. Hope that the FS & BLM come up with a strategy that allows reopening public collecting at Davis, and might also be extended to GB and similar sites before such drastic action is taken. Suspect that without enough staffing, the closure could be for a very long time, though. Permits at glass buttes? When did that start? Other than the one or two claims for the fire obsidian I thought it was a free public area. I know that some of the BLM offices apply the petrified wood collection limits to everything, but other than that I haven't heard of permits. roycatmandeweKnow anything about this?
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OregonBorn
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since September 2015
Posts: 85
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Post by OregonBorn on Feb 1, 2020 15:51:16 GMT -5
Yes, closing Davis will create more pressure on GB where there has already been a lot of abuse with people without permits taking tons from some pits, claim jumpers, damage to archaeological sites, etc. Hope that the FS & BLM come up with a strategy that allows reopening public collecting at Davis, and might also be extended to GB and similar sites before such drastic action is taken. Suspect that without enough staffing, the closure could be for a very long time, though. Permits at glass buttes? When did that start? Other than the one or two claims for the fire obsidian I thought it was a free public area. I know that some of the BLM offices apply the petrified wood collection limits to everything, but other than that I haven't heard of permits. roy catmandewe Know anything about this? People like to post online that there are permits required and new claims made at GB, but there are no permits required at Glass Buttes. The ONLY decisions the BLM has made about GB recently (in 2018) are about communications (radio) towers on the two buttes. There are 3 old Perlite mining claims there that were grandfathered when the GB site was set aside for rock hounding and put under BLM management. Then there is the one fire obsidian claim that was disputed some years ago and forced to be taken down after a court battle in Portland was lost by the old claim owners. That claim has been re-claimed again, supposedly for the teenie weenie amount of magnetite in the flame obsidian. It is a BS claim and could easily be challenged again in court. The three old Perlite claims are well known and listed on several maps as well as the mining clams lists online. There are two claims that are adjacent and one that is separate that you drive through to get to Mahogany Hill. There has been a lot of flap about the re-claimed flame site on FB, and its size. The owner got into a huff with me over it on FB. That site is on the hill above and to the left (east) of the cattle pond. The owner claims that it is marked again. I have not seen any claim markers there myself. Several have made other recent claims there marking sites with stakes that I have seen, but none of them are valid according to the BLM. The owner of the flame site claim claims that the BLM is aware of his claim, but the people at BLM that I talked to last year in Prineville said it was not valid. He says that BLM has been updated about his claim more recently. There are many other sites to dig for and find obsidian there. No damage that I have seen, other than pits and trenches being dug. I was there last in July of last year. We went all over the area, including the old Cinnabar mining areas just to the east of GB. The only limit at GB is collecting 25 pounds a day and 250 pounds a year for personal use. One trip to GB and you will have enough obsidian for a lifetime.
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OregonBorn
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since September 2015
Posts: 85
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Post by OregonBorn on Feb 1, 2020 16:15:28 GMT -5
Note that Davis Creek (DC) in California and Glass Buttes (GB) in Oregon are under different management at the national level. DC is under management of the USDA/US Forest Service, and GB is under management of the BLM. DC has required free use authorization permits for collecting obsidian in the Modoc National Forest. BLM has never required permits for collecting obsidian in the GB area since it was set aside for collecting. In the GB area, you only need permission from the owners to collect anything in the 3 grandfathered Perlite mining claim areas (and ostensibly at the flame site claim). I have not seen anything worth collecting in the Perlite claim areas myself though. At DC up to now, Free Use Authorizations were available during the open season (May-October) depending on weather and road conditions. This year at DC, there will be no permits issued for either commercial or personal-use obsidian collection on the Modoc National Forest for the 2020 season. This includes collecting at the four mines that had been set aside as community collection areas. That is according to the USDA/Forest Service bulletin. That does not in any way affect the GB area though, other than a likely impact and increase in the collecting done at GB by people that would otherwise collect at DC. Note also that the closing of the DC collecting sites is for this year only, and is not a permanent closure.
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,680
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Post by Fossilman on Feb 1, 2020 18:03:22 GMT -5
Yes, closing Davis will create more pressure on GB where there has already been a lot of abuse with people without permits taking tons from some pits, claim jumpers, damage to archaeological sites, etc. Hope that the FS & BLM come up with a strategy that allows reopening public collecting at Davis, and might also be extended to GB and similar sites before such drastic action is taken. Suspect that without enough staffing, the closure could be for a very long time, though. Permits at glass buttes? When did that start? Other than the one or two claims for the fire obsidian I thought it was a free public area. I know that some of the BLM offices apply the petrified wood collection limits to everything, but other than that I haven't heard of permits. roycatmandeweKnow anything about this? No permits, just permission on the claims to hound... There are about five claims out there at GB...
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,680
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Post by Fossilman on Feb 1, 2020 18:06:32 GMT -5
Permits at glass buttes? When did that start? Other than the one or two claims for the fire obsidian I thought it was a free public area. I know that some of the BLM offices apply the petrified wood collection limits to everything, but other than that I haven't heard of permits. roycatmandeweKnow anything about this? No permits, just permission on the claims to hound... There are about five or so claims out there at GB...I know the claim owner, he isn't a bad guy, some dislike him, but we all have opinions... LOL BLM, now there is a joke!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 19:00:50 GMT -5
Just to clarify, removing rocks from BLM and FS lands requires a permit if you intend to go over the limits (i.e., 25 pounds per person per day, up to 250 pounds per year), or the material is for commercial uses. That's been the case for decades now, both for obsidian and any other rock. Same as for petrified wood across the valley at Hampton Butte, agates, thundereggs, etc. on public lands. Multiple people in a party cannot pool together their daily/yearly limit to grab a big piece that weighs more than 25 lbs (you need to go over to the BLM office in Burns to get a permit for big pieces like that) or if you will use mechanical equipment. You may not disturb areas containing archaeological artifacts or of cultural importance (this has been an increasing concern in recent years).
And, yes, if you see claim markers, you must get permission from the claim owner. There have been ongoing disputes as to the legality of obsidian claims at Glass Buttes, and the BLM no longer grants claims for obsidian (or chalcedony). Even though the 3 Glass Buttes claims were grandfathered in at the time they ceased granting new claims, there are still issues because obsidian is not a mineral and thus isn't covered by mining claim laws. I see some have been attempting to defend the claims as being for "magnetite" as mentioned, rather than obsidian itself, but that may not stand up to a serious court fight. Regardless, unless you want a legal fight, best to stay clear of claims without getting and carrying written permission of the claim owner.
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Post by Rockoonz on Feb 1, 2020 21:41:35 GMT -5
@rocks2dust in their official rules the only limits are 25 lbs plus 1 pc per person up to 250 lb a year for petrified wood. At some point it was reinterpreted to mean all rocks, and the plus one pc no longer in effect. To my knowledge the rules have not changed, but that won't help when you're stuck in Burns after they impound your vehicle.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 23:35:31 GMT -5
The per person per day and year has been around since the 1980s (that's when I first asked at the local office and got the 25 pounds per person per day - and though the permit wasn't much, a bunch of us went and each got our limit to use to face a small wall). BLM/USFS rockhound guides say the same thing (the old central Oregon guide hasn't been on the site for almost 10 years now, but here is one from Arizona and handout letter from the Prineville office). You are correct that the same limit applies to petrified wood (and invertebrate fossils). Used to be that clubs could get a free permit for larger quantities, but I don't know whether that still applies.
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Post by catmandewe on Feb 3, 2020 1:23:18 GMT -5
I talked with one of the rangers and he said the Davis Creek shut down is over a legal battle with some indian tribes, the shutdown may or may not become permanent depending on the outcome of the court battle. (Good thing I have some stocked away just in case!!)
Tony
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Post by catmandewe on Feb 5, 2020 23:42:24 GMT -5
When I was digging at Davis Creek a few years ago the free personal use permit for Davis creek was good for two 5 gallon buckets of obsidian per person. The Forest service permits that you purchased to dig quantity charged you by the number of yards of dirt you moved and you were not allowed to use any mechanized equipment.
Tony
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<'))))>< Fish
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Gone Fishing
Member since April 2005
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Post by <'))))>< Fish on Feb 6, 2020 18:10:55 GMT -5
The last time I was there, 10 years ago. You could collect 500 pounds per person. I still have 200 pounds left
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 19:22:05 GMT -5
I love obsidian that has those micro-thin stretched veils of mineral. Beautiful piece!
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