julieooly
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2018
Posts: 714
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Post by julieooly on Aug 11, 2020 14:50:32 GMT -5
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Post by rockjunquie on Aug 11, 2020 15:08:20 GMT -5
I went ahead and moved it.
I have an Ameritool saw which is very similar. It's good saw type, but keep in mind it's not meant for rough, except for smaller pieces. As a trim saw for preforms, it should be fine.
I have a 6" Genie. I can't speak to the Cabking. I like my 6 inch and I don't feel like I am missing out. The 6" wheels are certainly cheaper and that is definitely one consideration.
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Post by stardiamond on Aug 11, 2020 15:26:12 GMT -5
I have no experience with cabking. I can weigh in on 6" vs 8".
I started out with an 8 inch machine with two worn wheels. I needed more wheels to get better results so I bought a 6 inch Genie. I modified my 8 inch machine to accommodate more wheels. For over 10 years I used the 8 inch machine for grinding through sanding and the Genie for pre-polishing and polishing. An 8 inch machine will cut faster. I don't know about the cabking but 8 inch soft wheels are generally wider and that makes work easier. I needed to replace some wheels on my 8 inch machine which is a big deal, so I went back to using a Genie. I bought a very aggressive 80 grit hard wheel for the Genie and the way I cab now, I do a lot of work with the 80 grit and less with the others, so I am cutting as fast on my 6 inch machine as my 8 inch machine.
Generally, the trade off is more expense for the 8 inch machine and wheels but faster cutting so how much work is going to be done si the deciding factor. Also, the wheels are the most expensive part of a machine and she should get some help on choosing replacement wheels.
Regarding the High tech saw, the ebay price is good. Someone else can offer advice of teh high-tech vs various tile saws.
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wiredlotus
off to a rocking start
Member since August 2020
Posts: 5
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Post by wiredlotus on Aug 11, 2020 15:27:31 GMT -5
Hello rockjunquie Thank you for your answer and help. As for your saw, would you recommend a larger saw to handle both rough and trim, or are those two separate saw considerations? I am interested in making flat-backed cabochons from both rough and slabs. I will be bezel-setting my stones and occasionally wire-wrapping them with round silver wire.
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wiredlotus
off to a rocking start
Member since August 2020
Posts: 5
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Post by wiredlotus on Aug 11, 2020 15:32:01 GMT -5
stardiamond that is a great response. Is a faster cutting wheel a good thing for someone new, or should I start slow?
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Post by rockjunquie on Aug 11, 2020 15:32:30 GMT -5
Hello rockjunquie Thank you for your answer and help. As for your saw, would you recommend a larger saw to handle both rough and trim, or are those two separate saw considerations? I am interested in making flat-backed cabochons from both rough and slabs. I will be bezel-setting my stones and occasionally wire-wrapping them with round silver wire. I have several saws. I still don't have a really large one. Maybe later. But, yeah, I think it is best to have a few sizes.
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julieooly
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2018
Posts: 714
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Post by julieooly on Aug 11, 2020 15:35:28 GMT -5
I also believe wiredlotus will be possibly making cabs from china plates, cups and bowls, and may be deconstructing 8" dinner plates and larger platters. For this she'll need a wide working surface on the saw.
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Post by Pat on Aug 11, 2020 15:37:20 GMT -5
I also have a 6” Genie, and a 6” Ameritool saw. Like them both. Not looking to replace them.
Welcome!
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wiredlotus
off to a rocking start
Member since August 2020
Posts: 5
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Post by wiredlotus on Aug 11, 2020 15:47:42 GMT -5
Pat, thank you. It seems that Genie need to be a consideration as well.
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Post by stardiamond on Aug 11, 2020 15:48:08 GMT -5
stardiamond that is a great response. Is a faster cutting wheel a good thing for someone new, or should I start slow? The main concern with a fast cutting wheel is chipping. After that it is confidence. Softer material cuts faster and things can go wrong quickly. I usually start with a higher grit. I've been making a lot of cabs recently and my confidence has never been higher. Some material I started on at 220 grit a few months ago, I will start with the less aggressive 80 grit. I know how it cuts and feel in control. With new to you material it is best to start out conservative.
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Post by stardiamond on Aug 11, 2020 16:00:16 GMT -5
Pat, thank you. It seems that Genie need to be a consideration as well. If you are considering a Genie, consider the Genie trim saw attachment. I recently bought one from Arrowhead lapidary for $410 including shipping and CA sales tax. It is an 8 inch trim saw with a very good blade. It sets up on the right side of the Genie, uses water as coolant, assembles and disassembles easily and the only moving part is the arbor and blade. I've had mine for 18 years. I bought the replacement because I might have an issue, but didn't and the saw is still in the box.
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gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 3,759
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Post by gemfeller on Aug 11, 2020 16:42:11 GMT -5
Genie user here. Mine's 35 years old and still runs like new. No experience with a Cab King but I hear the wheels supplied with it wear out faster than standard Diamond Pacific (Genie) wheels and that's a big expense factor.
In the past I've run separate arbors with 8-inch wheels and can't honestly say I see a lot of difference in cutting speed. I use an 80 grit sintered wheel on my Genie for fast stock removal. It does chip cab edges but experience will provide answers for that. Mine is using a 220 sintered wheel for final preforming which gives excellent control on cab edges and the entire process.
The type of saw chosen depends entirely on whether one needs to slab rough stones. If so, a minimum 10-inch saw would be my recommendation, preferably the one made by Highland Park. If the intended work will be cutting cab blanks from slabs and other flat material I recommend a dedicated metal trim saw. I've heard unflattering things about the Hi Tech saw due to its plastic construction and underpowered motor but I haven't personally used one. There's a wide choice of good saws at a variety of price points.
Lapidary equipment is expensive but I've learned (the hard way) that it's better to pay now than to pay (again) later, as the TV commercial said. But tool choices are intensely personal so only experience can provide individual answers.
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Aug 11, 2020 20:33:13 GMT -5
My husband and I each have 6" Genies that we both bought used. The only problem we've both had was having to replace motors because the capacitors went bad and blew up the motors. We didn't know it back then, but now it is common knowledge to replace the capacitor on the machine if it hasn't been used in about 2 years. I would recommend changing no matter what if you bought a used Genie to avoid blowing up the motor and have to fork over $400+ for a new one.
Depending on the size cabs you'll be cutting, it's easier to cut large cabs on the 8" wheels. If you will be cutting "normal" size cabs - say 1-1/2" or so, 6" wheels will work fine. The problem is the space between the wheels on the 6" machine is not a lot, so you have to be ultra careful not to catch the edge of the cab on an adjacent wheel and give it a good gouge that makes you go back to square 1. The 8" wheels have a bit more space between them which gives you some wiggle room.
These are for the Diamond Pacific machines, not the Cab King. I have never used a Cab King. I know some folks on the board have one and hopefully they'll pop in and give you their experience with it.
We have saws from 4" up to 18" and they all have their place. If you will just be trimming out preforms from slabs, you can go smaller, but if you have a really large slab, you may not be able to make the cuts you need to depending on the design of the saw. I have to agree with gemfeller, that you need a 10" saw if you will be cutting rough. You can hand slab small rough on an 8" saw, but it's difficult to keep it straight. I can't do it. Hubby can, though.
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Post by parfive on Aug 12, 2020 1:24:53 GMT -5
Six-inch or eight-inch cabber? For a beginner?
Well, 6” has suited me just fine for the last fourteen years and I like my cabs on the big side. Never felt the need for a bigger machine . . . or its added bulk and bigger footprint.
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Post by rmf on Aug 12, 2020 10:25:12 GMT -5
I have an 8" Titan and have done some work on a 6" Genie. If I were going to buy today I would go with the 8" Cab King. If you cut a lot of stones get 8" there is a little more elbow room. If you are going to do larger pieces (polish agate faces, pet wood, small display pieces) get the bigger hardware. If you want to do inside curves go smaller 6" or 4" Diamond Pacific units. 8" wheels last longer but cost more. diamond pacific cheats on their 8" wheels they are only 7 5/8" in diameter (this really annoys me) not much but an 8" wheel on a DP machine is very tight. Get the Cab King if you want 8". they can still use the 7 5/8" wheels with no problem. If you have plenty of room get 8" if not get 6" or even 4". the size issue is about convenience and how you work also Cab King is cheaper than DP wus was not available when I got my machine.
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nik
spending too much on rocks
Member since May 2019
Posts: 315
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Post by nik on Aug 13, 2020 17:38:33 GMT -5
If I were to start over from zero, with all new equipment, I would go with an 8" arbor of some kind. The EZ cab or Loretone seem to be good options in terms of value. My line of thinking for 8" rather than 6" is that you can always mount a smaller wheel on the shaft should you need a tighter radius for some specific project, and the extra space on the bigger machines allows more flexibility. As far as choice of wheel brand, there are definitely differences in quality, but aside from very few exceptions, price and quality/longevity are nearly directly related.
Ease of maintenance is also a consideration. You will eventually need to replace wheels and most likely bearings or a motor, and I have limited patience for proprietary parts and fighting with stuck shaft adapters for days on end.
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Post by knave on Aug 13, 2020 18:05:01 GMT -5
The 8” wheels cost more but they have much more diamond surface area.
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