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Post by Jugglerguy on Nov 30, 2020 22:23:33 GMT -5
I have an idea for a video. I'm trying do something a little extreme to grab attention. I'm going to invest a lot of time in this, so I'd like to actually learn something along the way. My idea is to put some rocks and grit in a rotary barrel and leave it on the tumbler for a full year. I think a year is overkill by many months, but the title might be more interesting than if I left them in the barrel for six months or something.
I'm thinking of getting something like Bahia agates that are already pretty rounded, rather than a crushed rock. I'll put the rocks in a three pound barrel with four tablespoons of 46/70 silicon carbide grit. The barrel will go on my tumbler and I'll take it off a year later. I expect that the rocks will come out fairly shiny at the end of a year, but I have never done an experiment like this before. I think there will be a week's worth of coarse grind and then the grit will continue to break down until it is very fine at which point it will polish the rocks.
Have any of you done an experiment like this? I don't mean for a whole year, but for several months? What do you think of my idea? Any advice? Thanks.
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EricD
Cave Dweller
High in the Mountains
Member since November 2019
Posts: 1,142
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Post by EricD on Nov 30, 2020 22:32:12 GMT -5
I ran some hard agate in a 12lb barrel once with 46/70 for 2 weeks, and the resulting slurry looked like silver spray paint, e.g. 500 or 1000 grit or smaller. Rocks were extremely smooth.
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allbetzoff
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since November 2020
Posts: 77
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Post by allbetzoff on Nov 30, 2020 23:32:19 GMT -5
Can't wait for the video!!! But with a full year of roll time, we will be waiting for a LONG time!!
What will our world even look like in a year when those rocks come out?
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lordsorril
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since April 2020
Posts: 766
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Post by lordsorril on Dec 1, 2020 10:13:58 GMT -5
It would be an experiment. Depending upon the type of stone you use: Ideally you would open the barrel at 6 months and have nice polished rocks, but, if there is a chip in there that comes off a stone after the grit has worn down significantly-you could have a bunch of scratched rocks after all that time...of course certain types of stones this is highly unlikely to happen...and if you are just testing the possibility I'm sure you can pick some good candidates. If you do decide to proceed: Rather than using a volumetric measurement (tablespoons)--maybe use weight as a measurement? It would be interesting to record all the weights of the materials used and then identify the final weights post-tumble. Subtracting the mass lost on the rocks and then adding it to the weight of the grit used should provide the stone:grit ratio of your final slurry.
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,666
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Post by Fossilman on Dec 1, 2020 10:32:01 GMT -5
I did two months on Obsidian... Bahia agates polish pretty fast, might loose a lot of material... Worth a try though..
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Post by aDave on Dec 1, 2020 11:25:02 GMT -5
Interesting concept, Rob Jugglerguy. Have you ever run 46/70 in a three-pound barrel? From what I recall from some prior posts, it seems the consensus is that such little weight of material in a barrel is not enough to take advantage of a grit that coarse. Now, that might be for folks looking to do a coarse run that might take place over a few weeks, and those folks have seen little in the way of grinding when doing weekly cleanouts with that size grit. Maybe there really is some breakdown, but it just takes longer...something that may be perfect for what you're looking to do. Good luck.
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electrocutus
spending too much on rocks
Member since October 2020
Posts: 331
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Post by electrocutus on Dec 1, 2020 11:47:02 GMT -5
Are you going to let your beard grow for the whole time?
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Post by Bob on Dec 1, 2020 12:13:44 GMT -5
I predict the slurry will get so thick that even after one month it will be all locked up in the barrel and no further action will happen.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Dec 1, 2020 12:17:11 GMT -5
Interesting concept, Rob Jugglerguy. Have you ever run 46/70 in a three-pound barrel? From what I recall from some prior posts, it seems the consensus is that such little weight of material in a barrel is not enough to take advantage of a grit that coarse. Now, that might be for folks looking to do a coarse run that might take place over a few weeks, and those folks have seen little in the way of grinding when doing weekly cleanouts with that size grit. Maybe there really is some breakdown, but it just takes longer...something that may be perfect for what you're looking to do. Good luck. I use 46/70 in small barrels all the time. I don't notice a difference. It seems like even if it didn't break down all the way, it would still do some grinding during the week.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Dec 1, 2020 12:17:42 GMT -5
Are you going to let your beard grow for the whole time? Not if I want to stay married, which I do.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Dec 1, 2020 12:20:33 GMT -5
I predict the slurry will get so thick that even after one month it will be all locked up in the barrel and no further action will happen. Why do you think that, Bob? I was considering adding more water just in case the slurry got a little thicker. I think that the grit will break down so small that it won't do much grinding at all after the first week or two.
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Post by Bob on Dec 1, 2020 12:44:32 GMT -5
Oh, I thought the barrel would be unopened the entire year.
I have run a few 2-3 week runs in coarse, by accident. Some have resulted in slurry so thick that center of barrel was air and rocks and slurry were glued to barrel via centrifugal force. I have wondered exactly why this happens and not sure. Too much rock dust? Rubber barrel/liner breathes and transmit moisture over time? Don't know but suspect build up of rock dust.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Dec 1, 2020 12:49:44 GMT -5
Oh, I thought the barrel would be unopened the entire year. I have run a few 2-3 week runs in coarse, by accident. Some have resulted in slurry so thick that center of barrel was air and rocks and slurry were glued to barrel via centrifugal force. I have wondered exactly why this happens and not sure. Too much rock dust? Rubber barrel/liner breathes and transmit moisture over time? Don't know but suspect build up of rock dust. You understood correctly, I wouldn't open the barrel at all for the year. I have had very thick slurry build up in a barrel, but I can't imagine how you would end up with the results you got. Seems like you'd have to have a leak to dry it out that much. It would be a real bummer to spend a year waiting only to have those results. That's why I'm asking questions before I start. I appreciate hearing about your experience.
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pizzano
Cave Dweller
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,390
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Post by pizzano on Dec 1, 2020 12:51:51 GMT -5
Based on everything we've previously learned here related to the many threads provided by several very serious and experienced rotary tumbler folks, all grit and polishing compounds break down over time. There are several factors that contribute to this.......:
Type of stone being processed Type of media being applied Type of and or quality of compounds being used Length of time each is processed Rotary speed applied (RPM's) Size of material being processed Size of load being processed Ambient environmental temperature Material processing temperature Amount and type of any additives (soap, sugar, Borax) added Ect....Ect....Ect...
As one can imagine, there are lot's of variables.......and no two batches will turn out identical.....!
Add.......the number of recharges, clean outs, liquid and or compound/media increases/deletions, frequency of such..........and the issue gets even more complex...!
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Dec 1, 2020 13:17:23 GMT -5
Seems like I remember captbob leaving barrels running untouched for 6 months or more but I do not remember if it was at stage one grit. Chuck
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Post by HankRocks on Dec 1, 2020 13:29:31 GMT -5
It seems to me that the 46/70 will breakdown to a extremely fine grit, just not sure it will ever be a true polish as it is still has it's sharp edges. It might give you a close to great polish, but not quite the high polish. Only one way to find out.
I would also think that you will be able to judge progress by the sound. I can usually tell if the run is getting too much slurry rock noise disappears, or getting a smooth finish which gives a different tone to the rock to rock hits or so it seems in my mind.
Talk about patience!! as I quoted the other day, "Beware the fury of a Patient Man!!"
Henry
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Post by Starguy on Dec 1, 2020 13:35:20 GMT -5
Jugglerguy What a cool idea Rob! I let 3 lbs of garnet sand run for a few months without grit. They never polished but they sure got nice and smooth.
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Post by Bob on Dec 1, 2020 14:06:12 GMT -5
I was going to mention the sound part. Used to let my tumblers run while on the trips with someone checking on them every other day. I don't do that anymore and agree experienced ears would detect a slurry problem.
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Post by aDave on Dec 1, 2020 15:20:21 GMT -5
Interesting concept, Rob Jugglerguy . Have you ever run 46/70 in a three-pound barrel? From what I recall from some prior posts, it seems the consensus is that such little weight of material in a barrel is not enough to take advantage of a grit that coarse. Now, that might be for folks looking to do a coarse run that might take place over a few weeks, and those folks have seen little in the way of grinding when doing weekly cleanouts with that size grit. Maybe there really is some breakdown, but it just takes longer...something that may be perfect for what you're looking to do. Good luck. I use 46/70 in small barrels all the time. I don't notice a difference. It seems like even if it didn't break down all the way, it would still do some grinding during the week. Good to know. Thanks for passing that along!
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Post by Jugglerguy on Dec 1, 2020 18:40:32 GMT -5
Seems like I remember captbob leaving barrels running untouched for 6 months or more but I do not remember if it was at stage one grit. Chuck I remembered that too and looked it up before posting my question. He tumbled obsidian for seven months, but there were grit changes along the way. The pictures are gone, but I remember it turning out better than any rotary tumbled obsidian I've ever seen. Mahogoy Obsidian
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