hummingbirdstones2
fully equipped rock polisher
Vince A., 1958-2023
Member since August 2018
Posts: 1,461
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Post by hummingbirdstones2 on Apr 21, 2021 20:53:22 GMT -5
Cut a guide for Robin's glass grinder this evening so she could do some groove wraps.
Had some .032" brass I bought to cut shims from. Cut a strip with a notch for the spindle, leaving about .200" width passing under the bit.
Seems like it will be rigid enough to work. We shall see... .
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Post by jasoninsd on Apr 21, 2021 21:08:23 GMT -5
Great idea Vince! Thanks for sharing the pics of this...it might be copied...err replicated North of you guys a little bit!
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Apr 21, 2021 21:25:04 GMT -5
Great idea Vince! Thanks for sharing the pics of this...it might be copied...err replicated North of you guys a little bit! Let me try it out first (hopefully tomorrow) to see if it works as well as he thinks it will. I'll let you know and then you can replicate away!
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Post by jasoninsd on Apr 21, 2021 21:32:41 GMT -5
Great idea Vince! Thanks for sharing the pics of this...it might be copied...err replicated North of you guys a little bit! Let me try it out first (hopefully tomorrow) to see if it works as well as he thinks it will. I'll let you know and then you can replicate away! I think the only issue could be how much a cab is beveled on the bottom. If the strap is not "wide" enough to account for the lower beveled edge on a cab, then that will effect the depth of cut. If the strap is wide enough - or high enough above the surface of the table to avoid that lower bevel, then it should work very well as a guide. I've been trying to use a black line drawn on the edge of the bit, but it doesn't stay visual once the grind starts and the debris from the stone gets on the bit...
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Apr 21, 2021 21:41:09 GMT -5
Let me try it out first (hopefully tomorrow) to see if it works as well as he thinks it will. I'll let you know and then you can replicate away! I think the only issue could be how much a cab is beveled on the bottom. If the strap is not "wide" enough to account for the lower beveled edge on a cab, then that will effect the depth of cut. If the strap is wide enough - or high enough above the surface of the table to avoid that lower bevel, then it should work very well as a guide. I've been trying to use a black line drawn on the edge of the bit, but it doesn't stay visual once the grind starts and the debris from the stone gets on the bit... We shall see. I generally don't put a very big bevel on the bottom of my cabs. Just enough to prevent chipping. The only time it's more is if there's already a good size chip on the bottom that I need to get rid of. I usually bevel before I do the backs (yes, I polish the backs of cabs), so the bevel is very small in most cases.
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Post by agatewhisperer on Apr 21, 2021 21:41:54 GMT -5
Great solution! Thanks for posting. Going to have to try this out.
What are you using to hold the strip of brass in place?
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Post by jasoninsd on Apr 21, 2021 21:48:11 GMT -5
Oh...another thing...
I recently did a groove wrap for my mother-in-law that was a rectangle. I could be wrong with this (but I don't think I am), but I noticed the corners couldn't remain the same depth as the edges. They needed to be slightly deeper. This would account for the slight increase in the width of the wire at the bend in the corner. It's a very minor width increase, but it is there.
I know you're supposed to sand/grind down the wire once it's in the groove, to get rid of any wire sticking out beyond the edge of the cab...and then the depth at the corners won't really matter.
Anyway, this just occurred to me that it would effect ME and the way I cut the groove the exact depth of the width of the wire...and only on cabs that have a "corner" to them - it won't effect rounded edges...
(I'm not sure if this made sense...it makes sense in my head! LOL)
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Apr 21, 2021 21:51:16 GMT -5
Oh...another thing... I recently did a groove wrap for my mother-in-law that was a rectangle. I could be wrong with this (but I don't think I am), but I noticed the corners couldn't remain the same depth as the edges. They needed to be slightly deeper. This would account for the slight increase in the width of the wire at the bend in the corner. It's a very minor width increase, but it is there. I know you're supposed to sand/grind down the wire once it's in the groove, to get rid of any wire sticking out beyond the edge of the cab...and then the depth at the corners won't really matter. Anyway, this just occurred to me that it would effect ME and the way I cut the groove the exact depth of the width of the wire...and only on cabs that have a "corner" to them - it won't effect rounded edges... (I'm not sure if this made sense...it makes sense in my head! LOL) Are you using round wire or half-round?
ETA: Or square?
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Post by jasoninsd on Apr 21, 2021 22:01:22 GMT -5
Oh...another thing... I recently did a groove wrap for my mother-in-law that was a rectangle. I could be wrong with this (but I don't think I am), but I noticed the corners couldn't remain the same depth as the edges. They needed to be slightly deeper. This would account for the slight increase in the width of the wire at the bend in the corner. It's a very minor width increase, but it is there. I know you're supposed to sand/grind down the wire once it's in the groove, to get rid of any wire sticking out beyond the edge of the cab...and then the depth at the corners won't really matter. Anyway, this just occurred to me that it would effect ME and the way I cut the groove the exact depth of the width of the wire...and only on cabs that have a "corner" to them - it won't effect rounded edges... (I'm not sure if this made sense...it makes sense in my head! LOL) Are you using round wire or half-round?
ETA: Or square?
I've used 21 gauge round silver wire, but that gauge is too narrow for the size of the bit. It worked as that's the only size I have, but I think it would have worked better with a bigger gauge. I've used 20 gauge square copper that fits the groove pretty well. That's what I used on the rectangular cabs I groove wrapped. I liked using this...so I hope you're not about to tell me I shouldn't be using it! LOL
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Apr 21, 2021 22:05:39 GMT -5
Are you using round wire or half-round?
ETA: Or square?
I've used 21 gauge round silver wire, but that gauge is too narrow for the size of the bit. It worked as that's the only size I have, but I think it would have worked better with a bigger gauge. I've used 20 gauge square copper that fits the groove pretty well. That's what I used on the rectangular cabs I groove wrapped. I liked using this...so I hope you're not about to tell me I shouldn't be using it! LOL Nope. I was just wondering. Having never done one, I can't tell anyone how to do it. I believe in Chuck's tutorial he uses square and Adrian uses round in his.
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Post by jasoninsd on Apr 21, 2021 22:23:52 GMT -5
I've used 21 gauge round silver wire, but that gauge is too narrow for the size of the bit. It worked as that's the only size I have, but I think it would have worked better with a bigger gauge. I've used 20 gauge square copper that fits the groove pretty well. That's what I used on the rectangular cabs I groove wrapped. I liked using this...so I hope you're not about to tell me I shouldn't be using it! LOL Nope. I was just wondering. Having never done one, I can't tell anyone how to do it. I believe in Chuck's tutorial he uses square and Adrian uses round in his. The reason I like the square, is I didn't want to try and sand down any of the round that would be sticking out past the edge of the groove. I figured if I could make the groove the right depth, the square wire would already be "flat" - as opposed the round that would need to be sanded.
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Apr 21, 2021 22:27:24 GMT -5
Nope. I was just wondering. Having never done one, I can't tell anyone how to do it. I believe in Chuck's tutorial he uses square and Adrian uses round in his. The reason I like the square, is I didn't want to try and sand down any of the round that would be sticking out past the edge of the groove. I figured if I could make the groove the right depth, the square wire would already be "flat" - as opposed the round that would need to be sanded. My thoughts exactly!
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Post by agatewhisperer on Apr 21, 2021 22:27:41 GMT -5
I've used 21 gauge round silver wire, but that gauge is too narrow for the size of the bit. It worked as that's the only size I have, but I think it would have worked better with a bigger gauge. I've used 20 gauge square copper that fits the groove pretty well. That's what I used on the rectangular cabs I groove wrapped. I liked using this...so I hope you're not about to tell me I shouldn't be using it! LOL Nope. I was just wondering. Having never done one, I can't tell anyone how to do it. I believe in Chuck's tutorial he uses square and Adrian uses round in his. Just another vote - I'm no expert but I used square when trying this, right out of Chuck's tutorial. I did a few with round but had better luck with square as a beginner.
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Post by jasoninsd on Apr 21, 2021 22:32:29 GMT -5
The reason I like the square, is I didn't want to try and sand down any of the round that would be sticking out past the edge of the groove. I figured if I could make the groove the right depth, the square wire would already be "flat" - as opposed the round that would need to be sanded. My thoughts exactly! Nope. I was just wondering. Having never done one, I can't tell anyone how to do it. I believe in Chuck's tutorial he uses square and Adrian uses round in his. Just another vote - I'm no expert but I used square when trying this, right out of Chuck's tutorial. I did a few with round but had better luck with square as a beginner. I think we're all on the same page! Well, at least the same chapter...and hopefully the same book! LOL
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Post by Rockoonz on Apr 21, 2021 22:43:21 GMT -5
I cut a hard plastic sleeve that press fits over the top of the groove bit to act as a guide it works pretty well but I have no idea how I will get it off when the bit is worn out. I think that I'll try something like that. When I make a groove cab I shape the cab and polish the perimeter before I cut the groove, then cut the dome and back bezel afterwards with the groove to use as a guide for the dome. It just occurred to me that now that I have a rolling mill that makes square wire I can roll round wire out to fit the groove. Maybe it will be set up before summer hits hard, trying to get an insulated shop area together before the triple digits hit.
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hummingbirdstones2
fully equipped rock polisher
Vince A., 1958-2023
Member since August 2018
Posts: 1,461
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Post by hummingbirdstones2 on Apr 22, 2021 9:31:14 GMT -5
agatewhisperer - No high tech attachment method yet for the prototype. Just really good duct tape.
Not shown in photos, but that's one reason I made the brass strip long enough to go all the way over the edges. The ends are bent downward so they extend about 3/8" over the edges. That would add an additional smooth surface for tape, but a strip on each edge of the table top seems like it will be enough.
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Apr 22, 2021 21:01:48 GMT -5
jasoninsd - it worked rather well. Here's my first groove wrap ever. Not perfect by any stretch mostly because I couldn't find the hemostats to hold the wires tight so I could wrap the bail. I used 20 ga square and 21 ga half-round for the bail.
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Post by jasoninsd on Apr 22, 2021 21:31:50 GMT -5
jasoninsd - it worked rather well. Here's my first groove wrap ever. Not perfect by any stretch mostly because I couldn't find the hemostats to hold the wires tight so I could wrap the bail. I used 20 ga square and 21 ga half-round for the bail.
Robin, that looks great! Not an easy shape to do your first one with either! I've used 20 gauge round for the bail. I wasted a couple inches of the round, just so I could hold it taught while making the wraps around the bail. I made sure I cut the ends of the round at an angle, so it would be "flush" with the bail.
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Apr 22, 2021 21:45:01 GMT -5
Robin, that looks great! Not an easy shape to do your first one with either! I've used 20 gauge round for the bail. I wasted a couple inches of the round, just so I could hold it taught while making the wraps around the bail. I made sure I cut the ends of the round at an angle, so it would be "flush" with the bail. Thanks, Jason. I know where the hemostats live now, so next one I do will be easier. I was happy with the way the half-round worked on the bail. This cab was on the smaller side and I tried double-wrapping it like in Chuck's tutorial, but it just looked way to bulky for the size of the cab, so I tore it off and just did the half-round. The 21 g was the largest half-round I had, so that's what I used. I think I'll get some larger half-round next time I have to order metal. It lays nice on the square wires and saves some money.
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Post by mohs on Apr 22, 2021 21:51:53 GMT -5
hemo be damned! slap the rock on ! cool
that some good looking stone do u know where it from ?
it looks like some southeastern Arizona jasp rock
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