coyotefox
off to a rocking start
Member since April 2021
Posts: 8
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Post by coyotefox on Apr 22, 2021 21:32:38 GMT -5
Hello, In the short time I've been following this forum, I've found a vast wealth of information. It has been a huge relief to land here and you should know that you all rock... I'm looking for some advice on a 8" flat lap that can be used for sanding/polishing glass (bottles), quartz, and tigers eye. I'm sure my needs will grow with time. After breaking and polishing 100 bottles by hand, I've decided to not do that for my next order, project, or ever again. It seems the best options for my price range may be as follows: Ameritool UniversalHi-Tech All-U-Need With both glass and rock discs. Hi-Tech Slant Cabber with both glass and rock discs Crystal Master 8 Epic name. Covington Maxi Laps These are a little out of my price range but they look pretty awesome The Covington lap 12 is way too much machine for what I'm trying to do but it is quite the beefy choice that offers a unique feature. You can add cone and dome polishing attachments. It is also worth noting that Covington's accessory kits // extra discs cost more than some flat lap machines and discs together. If the quality of the machines and discs are that superior, I'm into it. My bank account, sadly is not. (Let's go Doge Coin.... ) My questions are 1) Are there any 8" flat laps that also have cone/dome attachments available? (Maybe a 3rd party or a DIY option) 2) Is variable speed where it is at? It seems like good feature for a variety of material. 3) Am I better off getting individual machines that do one task very well or can I blur the lines a little? As a novice I'd much rather buy 2 machines to cut and sand/polish, instead of buying a slab saw, trim saw, glass lathe, cabbing machine and flat lap. The manofglass Walt has been beyond helpful and informed me of the need for a N95 mask when working with quartz and tigers eye. Thanks again. Anyway, I hope someone here can shine a light on this topic for me. Cheers Levi
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hummingbirdstones2
fully equipped rock polisher
Vince A., 1958-2023
Member since August 2018
Posts: 1,461
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Post by hummingbirdstones2 on Apr 22, 2021 23:04:24 GMT -5
Welcome to the party. Since you're in Texas, you might be able to find some good used equipment over time, and save some bucks. I tried an "all-in-one" option for my first machine, and outgrew it really quickly - but not before I'd spent a fair amount of cash trying to make it work like I wanted it to.
For starters, I really like the Hi-Tech 8". Got mine after seeing how well Robin's worked, and have never regretted it.
The rock and mineral setup would be good. We cut opal, and it works great. The lower price - relative to the other brands - would let you get a couple of extra laps for more versatility. Getting one of the Pro-Flow water systems will also make life easier for you.
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coyotefox
off to a rocking start
Member since April 2021
Posts: 8
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Post by coyotefox on Apr 23, 2021 15:07:30 GMT -5
Hey Vince,
Thanks for the information and the recommendation.
Cutting and forming opal seems like it can quite satisfying and addicting.
Is there a particular trim/slab saw you use for that?
Again, I really appreciate the input.
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stefan
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,095
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Post by stefan on Apr 23, 2021 16:35:31 GMT -5
I have a CabKing 6" (made by the same parent company as Hi Tech) and I am pretty impressed with what you get for your money. If your looking to just get a good all around basic machine, the All-in -one 6 inch is under $500 and is decent complete starter set.
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Post by stephan on Apr 24, 2021 9:12:33 GMT -5
An N95 mask would only be needed if you are dry-polishing. Using water protects you from dust.
Furthermore, whether polishing quartz, tigers eye or glass (or even agate or jasper, if you decide to expand) all produce the same dust — silica dust.
Keep in mind for those cutting concrete on an industrial scale, which produces a heck of a lot more dust then cabbing, OSHA only requires a mask when working dry.
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Apr 24, 2021 9:37:12 GMT -5
coyotefox we use a 4" tiny trim saw with a very thin blade to slice up opal. Opal is too expensive to waste any more than you have to.
What exactly are you intending to make with the glass, quartz and tiger eye? It would help to know so we can give you better suggestions. I looked at that Covington 12 flat lap. Holy moley that's a lot of money. Keep in mind that the larger the machine, the more money all the accessories are, too. Laps are not cheap, so I would get a flat lap the size that accommodates what you'll be working with.
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coyotefox
off to a rocking start
Member since April 2021
Posts: 8
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Post by coyotefox on Apr 24, 2021 11:26:30 GMT -5
I have a CabKing 6" (made by the same parent company as Hi Tech) and I am pretty impressed with what you get for your money. If your looking to just get a good all around basic machine, the All-in -one 6 inch is under $500 and is decent complete starter set. Those CabKings look like great machines. Thank you for the advice on a solid all around device.
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coyotefox
off to a rocking start
Member since April 2021
Posts: 8
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Post by coyotefox on Apr 24, 2021 11:38:14 GMT -5
An N95 mask would only be needed if you are dry-polishing. Using water protects you from dust. Furthermore, whether polishing quartz, tigers eye or glass (or even agate or jasper, if you decide to expand) all produce the same dust — silica dust. Keep in mind for those cutting concrete on an industrial scale, which produces a heck of a lot more dust then cabbing, OSHA only requires a mask when working dry. Silica dust and silicosis seem pretty horrible. Thanks for this very helpful information. In this case, I have no desire to be an OSHA-offender.
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coyotefox
off to a rocking start
Member since April 2021
Posts: 8
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Post by coyotefox on Apr 24, 2021 11:58:38 GMT -5
coyotefox we use a 4" tiny trim saw with a very thin blade to slice up opal. Opal is too expensive to waste any more than you have to.
What exactly are you intending to make with the glass, quartz and tiger eye? It would help to know so we can give you better suggestions. I looked at that Covington 12 flat lap. Holy moley that's a lot of money. Keep in mind that the larger the machine, the more money all the accessories are, too. Laps are not cheap, so I would get a flat lap the size that accommodates what you'll be working with.
That price tag will probably keep me away from opal (for a long time). I'm sure it is very rewarding when the piece comes out as desired. When looking at Covington's site all I can think is '$holey moley$,' but a guy can window shop... So I've been cutting glass bottles and making soy candles. What started as a fun project for friends and family has turned into much larger orders than I was prepared for and hand sanding is something I have no desire to ever do again. Also, I intend to expand into recycled bottle light fixtures and some form of glass art (stained glass or kinetic art). After spending a number of years bartending, I have a line on more used glass than one could ever need. The quartz and tigers eye projects are similar. They will be for pendant necklaces, quartz wands, and cool rocks to give the nieces and nephews. I've collected some small tigers eye slab and broken quartz pieces with the intent of re-shaping them a little. With all the pieces being medium to small I was thinking an 8" lap would have to do, until the day comes where a 12" can be justified. Thanks for you help!
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Post by stephan on Apr 24, 2021 12:07:10 GMT -5
An N95 mask would only be needed if you are dry-polishing. Using water protects you from dust. Furthermore, whether polishing quartz, tigers eye or glass (or even agate or jasper, if you decide to expand) all produce the same dust — silica dust. Keep in mind for those cutting concrete on an industrial scale, which produces a heck of a lot more dust then cabbing, OSHA only requires a mask when working dry. Silica dust and silicosis seem pretty horrible. Thanks for this very helpful information. In this case, I have no desire to be an OSHA-offender. Sure thing. It always pays to remember that dust is only dust when it’s dry. When you use water, you make dilute mud , which is much harder to inhale, as it doesn’t really get airborne to any appreciable degree, and does not penetrate into the lungs. As far as being an OSHA offender, “O” stands for occupational, so the rules apply in the workplace. The science on which they are based is still useful. As far as N95 masks go, most people wear them incorrectly, so they do not get anywhere near 95% protection. Furthermore many masks on the consumer market are counterfeit (with the pandemic, it’s probably safe to say that the majority are), so they would also clock in below that 95% protection factor. If you do decide to go that route, I can help with fitting.
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coyotefox
off to a rocking start
Member since April 2021
Posts: 8
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Post by coyotefox on Apr 26, 2021 18:32:39 GMT -5
Silica dust and silicosis seem pretty horrible. Thanks for this very helpful information. In this case, I have no desire to be an OSHA-offender. Sure thing. It always pays to remember that dust is only dust when it’s dry. When you use water, you make dilute mud , which is much harder to inhale, as it doesn’t really get airborne to any appreciable degree, and does not penetrate into the lungs. As far as being an OSHA offender, “O” stands for occupational, so the rules apply in the workplace. The science on which they are based is still useful. As far as N95 masks go, most people wear them incorrectly, so they do not get anywhere near 95% protection. Furthermore many masks on the consumer market are counterfeit (with the pandemic, it’s probably safe to say that the majority are), so they would also clock in below that 95% protection factor. If you do decide to go that route, I can help with fitting. Hey Stephan, Good advice on the N95. I've got an 3M respirator with P100 filters but am interested in finding some N95s. Do you have any pointers on how to find real N95's on the consumer market?
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stefan
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,095
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Post by stefan on Apr 26, 2021 18:39:01 GMT -5
P100's are better than the N95 as they filter 97%+ vs the 95% on the N95. I used to do concrete grooving (dry) and we used P100s with excellent results. Stick with 3M's P100 as they are proven and are strongly oil resistant, N95 are not.
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Apr 26, 2021 20:32:52 GMT -5
coyotefox we use a 4" tiny trim saw with a very thin blade to slice up opal. Opal is too expensive to waste any more than you have to.
What exactly are you intending to make with the glass, quartz and tiger eye? It would help to know so we can give you better suggestions. I looked at that Covington 12 flat lap. Holy moley that's a lot of money. Keep in mind that the larger the machine, the more money all the accessories are, too. Laps are not cheap, so I would get a flat lap the size that accommodates what you'll be working with.
That price tag will probably keep me away from opal (for a long time). I'm sure it is very rewarding when the piece comes out as desired. When looking at Covington's site all I can think is '$holey moley$,' but a guy can window shop... So I've been cutting glass bottles and making soy candles. What started as a fun project for friends and family has turned into much larger orders than I was prepared for and hand sanding is something I have no desire to ever do again. Also, I intend to expand into recycled bottle light fixtures and some form of glass art (stained glass or kinetic art). After spending a number of years bartending, I have a line on more used glass than one could ever need. The quartz and tigers eye projects are similar. They will be for pendant necklaces, quartz wands, and cool rocks to give the nieces and nephews. I've collected some small tigers eye slab and broken quartz pieces with the intent of re-shaping them a little. With all the pieces being medium to small I was thinking an 8" lap would have to do, until the day comes where a 12" can be justified. Thanks for you help! An 8" lap should work just fine for you with glass bottles. The diamond smoothing discs you use with them (diamond impregnated in resin) last a long time, especially if you're using them on something soft like glass. Tigers eye and quartz also polish easily on them.
stephan gave you good advice on the masks. Using a water drip you should be ok, but I'd probably err on the safe side with grinding glass, even with the water drip. Silicosis is nothing to mess with and it's better to be safe than sorry.
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Post by stephan on Apr 26, 2021 22:26:16 GMT -5
Ok, quick low-down: With using water, masks are likely unneeded. If you choose to use them, here are some basics: - All tight-fitting masks are respirators, whether N,R or P, just like cartridge masks are - the letters N, R or P indicate that masks are not-resistant to, resistant or oil-proof, respectively - The number indicates % protection under ideal conditions (“100” is really 99.6%) - The mask will not work if you have facial hair in the sealing zone (even 5 o’clock shadow will cut effectiveness in more than half. With a full beard you need not bother. Effectiveness will be in the 10% range or lower. - You need to do a fit test ever time you wear a mask. To do this, cup both hands over the mask and inhale sharply. The mask should collapse slightly. Next exhale, semi-forcefully. The mask should balloon, but you should not feel air escaping (most commonly, this will be along the nose). - Do not re-use your mask Regarding counterfeit masks.... It is really hard to tell. The 3M brand is one of the big targets, and even hospitals and major retailers have been fooled. One slip that is sometimes made, is if they say they are OSHA or FDA approved. Only NIOSH approves masks. The good news is the counterfeit masks are getting better, and hence closer to the stated protection factor. The bad news... counterfeit masks can be contaminated with mold, asbestos or other harmful substances. ETA hummingbirdstones somewhat counterintuitively, glass dust would be somewhat less dangerous than quartz, as it is amorphous, rather than crystalline silica. However, with dry material, pm2.5 or pm10 of any sort would not be great to breathe, but that size would not be much of an issue until you get to 3000 grit and finer.
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Apr 27, 2021 8:44:52 GMT -5
Ok, quick low-down: With using water, masks are likely unneeded. If you choose to use them, here are some basics: - All tight-fitting masks are respirators, whether N,R or P, just like cartridge masks are - the letters N, R or P indicate that masks are not-resistant to, resistant or oil-proof, respectively - The number indicates % protection under ideal conditions (“100” is really 99.6%) - The mask will not work if you have facial hair in the sealing zone (even 5 o’clock shadow will cut effectiveness in more than half. With a full beard you need not bother. Effectiveness will be in the 10% range or lower. - You need to do a fit test ever time you wear a mask. To do this, cup both hands over the mask and inhale sharply. The mask should collapse slightly. Next exhale, semi-forcefully. The mask should balloon, but you should not feel air escaping (most commonly, this will be along the nose). - Do not re-use your mask Regarding counterfeit masks.... It is really hard to tell. The 3M brand is one of the big targets, and even hospitals and major retailers have been fooled. One slip that is sometimes made, is if they say they are OSHA or FDA approved. Only NIOSH approves masks. The good news is the counterfeit masks are getting better, and hence closer to the stated protection factor. The bad news... counterfeit masks can be contaminated with mold, asbestos or other harmful substances. ETA hummingbirdstones somewhat counterintuitively, glass dust would be somewhat less dangerous than quartz, as it is amorphous, rather than crystalline silica. However, with dry material, pm2.5 or pm10 of any sort would not be great to breathe, but that size would not be much of an issue until you get to 3000 grit and finer. stephan, you probably are correct, but when I used to do stained glass, I was always taught to wear a mask when cutting and grinding and also to change clothes to clean ones before you went into your living space so as not to bring tiny glass shards from your working clothes into your home and spread it around. Of course, when you're cutting glass and breaking it along the score lines, you do it dry.
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Post by stephan on Apr 27, 2021 9:51:58 GMT -5
Ok, quick low-down: With using water, masks are likely unneeded. If you choose to use them, here are some basics: - All tight-fitting masks are respirators, whether N,R or P, just like cartridge masks are - the letters N, R or P indicate that masks are not-resistant to, resistant or oil-proof, respectively - The number indicates % protection under ideal conditions (“100” is really 99.6%) - The mask will not work if you have facial hair in the sealing zone (even 5 o’clock shadow will cut effectiveness in more than half. With a full beard you need not bother. Effectiveness will be in the 10% range or lower. - You need to do a fit test ever time you wear a mask. To do this, cup both hands over the mask and inhale sharply. The mask should collapse slightly. Next exhale, semi-forcefully. The mask should balloon, but you should not feel air escaping (most commonly, this will be along the nose). - Do not re-use your mask Regarding counterfeit masks.... It is really hard to tell. The 3M brand is one of the big targets, and even hospitals and major retailers have been fooled. One slip that is sometimes made, is if they say they are OSHA or FDA approved. Only NIOSH approves masks. The good news is the counterfeit masks are getting better, and hence closer to the stated protection factor. The bad news... counterfeit masks can be contaminated with mold, asbestos or other harmful substances. ETA hummingbirdstones somewhat counterintuitively, glass dust would be somewhat less dangerous than quartz, as it is amorphous, rather than crystalline silica. However, with dry material, pm2.5 or pm10 of any sort would not be great to breathe, but that size would not be much of an issue until you get to 3000 grit and finer. stephan , you probably are correct, but when I used to do stained glass, I was always taught to wear a mask when cutting and grinding and also to change clothes to clean ones before you went into your living space so as not to bring tiny glass shards from your working clothes into your home and spread it around. Of course, when you're cutting glass and breaking it along the score lines, you do it dry. Yep, breaking glass can be different. You definitely get sharp pieces then, and carrying dust in on your clothes is definitely a consideration. Not sure when you were doing stained glass, but if we go back far enough, we probably worked with lead cames. LOL. Plus, who knows what's in the some of the colored glass, and whether it's bio-available when the glass is ground. And when I'm saying that masks aren't necessary, I'm not saying, "don't wear them." Just giving info. Even at work, there is a "Voluntary Use" program for people who just feel safer wearing a mask, even if OSHA doesn't require it for the task. We still make them aware of how to wear it properly and of the risks and limitations. Which reminds me... I forgot to mention the risks of wearing an N95 or better. If worn properly, they restrict your breathing. This means that smokers and others with impaired lung function may want to weigh carefully whether a respirator is the right choice for you. If you do have impaired lung function, you may want to plan frequent breaks (don't wait until you feel faint). And, finally, some people unexpectedly experience claustrophobia when they put on a respirator, which can also make it difficult to breathe. I've seen this in about 5% , or so, of the people I've fitted.
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Apr 27, 2021 10:23:33 GMT -5
stephan , you probably are correct, but when I used to do stained glass, I was always taught to wear a mask when cutting and grinding and also to change clothes to clean ones before you went into your living space so as not to bring tiny glass shards from your working clothes into your home and spread it around. Of course, when you're cutting glass and breaking it along the score lines, you do it dry. Yep, breaking glass can be different. You definitely get sharp pieces then, and carrying dust in on your clothes is definitely a consideration. Not sure when you were doing stained glass, but if we go back far enough, we probably worked with lead cames. LOL. Plus, who knows what's in the some of the colored glass, and whether it's bio-available when the glass is ground. And when I'm saying that masks aren't necessary, I'm not saying, "don't wear them." Just giving info. Even at work, there is a "Voluntary Use" program for people who just feel safer wearing a mask, even if OSHA doesn't require it for the task. We still make them aware of how to wear it properly and of the risks and limitations. Which reminds me... I forgot to mention the risks of wearing an N95 or better. If worn properly, they restrict your breathing. This means that smokers and others with impaired lung function may want to weigh carefully whether a respirator is the right choice for you. If you do have impaired lung function, you may want to plan frequent breaks (don't wait until you feel faint). And, finally, some people unexpectedly experience claustrophobia when they put on a respirator, which can also make it difficult to breathe. I've seen this in about 5% , or so, of the people I've fitted. stephan, people STILL use lead cames for windows. Personally, I did the copper foil method, but the solder was lead.
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