standles
spending too much on rocks
Well all I got was a rock ... Cool!
Member since February 2021
Posts: 325
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Post by standles on Apr 29, 2021 16:41:22 GMT -5
Was tumbling a mixed batch of jasper that included some seagreen. Polished up through 220 with no issues and no borax. Inspected and moved to 600. At end of 600 added 1tbsp of borax (20 mule team), water and burnished. The burnish was 3 hours because i got involved with another project. Dumped and rinse to move to micro alumina stage. ALL of the seagreen jasper had been eaten away at. Nothing else was harmed. Just thought i would share for info. .
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Post by jasoninsd on Apr 29, 2021 17:03:58 GMT -5
Well, that stinks! (Figuratively)
I would not have guessed Borax would have affected the stones like that...
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stefan
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,095
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Post by stefan on Apr 29, 2021 17:26:38 GMT -5
looks like the borax cleaned out some fractures that were going to let you down in the end. Where these run with any cushioning?
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Post by amygdule on Apr 29, 2021 17:32:16 GMT -5
I've never heard of Seagreen Jasper. Where did you get it ? It may not be a real jasper.
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standles
spending too much on rocks
Well all I got was a rock ... Cool!
Member since February 2021
Posts: 325
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Post by standles on Apr 29, 2021 17:34:58 GMT -5
looks like the borax cleaned out some fractures that were going to let you down in the end. Where these run with any cushioning? Yes it had ceramic at 1/3 volume. Same routine ive used mant times before. Going into theis stafe they were all smooth, no fracture or pits, and had a nice sheen
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standles
spending too much on rocks
Well all I got was a rock ... Cool!
Member since February 2021
Posts: 325
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Post by standles on Apr 29, 2021 17:38:36 GMT -5
I've never heard of Seagreen Jasper. Where did you get it ? It may not be a real jasper. Gemsbymail.com. here it is wet and dry
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AQuartzLow
starting to shine!
Member since November 2020
Posts: 44
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Post by AQuartzLow on Apr 29, 2021 19:34:36 GMT -5
I’ve often wondered about using borax in tumbling, tbh. With all the different minerals in different rocks, a chemical reaction with borax seems inevitable, no?
That stinks about your jasper- it’ll be interesting to see what happens if you use dove soap, instead.
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Post by HankRocks on Apr 29, 2021 20:22:38 GMT -5
Very odd. I have used Borax in 200 to 300 loads or more of polished rocks along with ivory soap to burnish. Have never had any sort of reaction with any of the rocks I have polished, all types of Agates, Jaspers, Petrified Wood, Quartz, Obsidian, Tiger Eye, etc, etc. I would have to suspect that there's something about the sea-green material that might be the culprit.
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standles
spending too much on rocks
Well all I got was a rock ... Cool!
Member since February 2021
Posts: 325
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Post by standles on Apr 29, 2021 20:33:05 GMT -5
Very odd. I have used Borax in 200 to 300 loads or more of polished rocks along with ivory soap to burnish. Have never had any sort of reaction with any of the rocks I have polished, all types of Agates, Jaspers, Petrified Wood, Quartz, Obsidian, Tiger Eye, etc, etc. I would have to suspect that there's something about the sea-green material that might be the culprit. Same here. This is first time its happened but I normall only borax them 30mins not 3 hours. Now if I only had a mass spectrometer to see what these things are made of.....
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lookatthat
Cave Dweller
Whatever there is to be found.
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Post by lookatthat on Apr 29, 2021 20:34:09 GMT -5
Maybe it's a type of serpentine? Or opal?
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Sabre52
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Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
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Post by Sabre52 on Apr 29, 2021 22:58:37 GMT -5
Borax should not harm rocks at all. Something else must be the issue. However it is very toxic to all plants so borax water waste is hard to dispose of. Dreft soap is the best for that final wash in my book.
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Post by fernwood on Apr 30, 2021 0:48:24 GMT -5
I have had no problems using Borax with a variety of rocks. It is also great to kill Creeping Charlie plants. They can take over a shaded yard very quickly. Borax was the only thing that would kill them. I now use my Borax slurry as a plant killer.
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Post by RickB on Apr 30, 2021 5:28:28 GMT -5
Sorry about those rocks. Hopefully you will find them misplaced and sitting somewhere around you.
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Brian
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since July 2020
Posts: 1,506
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Post by Brian on Apr 30, 2021 8:07:50 GMT -5
I am thinking it might be the rocks rather than the borax, although the borax may well be at fault. I actually have some of that same sea jasper from Gems by Mail and it doesn’t look or feel like a true jasper. It is very crystalline and has large grains. Out of curiousity, I compared it to a piece of chrysocolla and it looks very similar. The sea jasper is on the left in that photo. They look to have a very similar structure, so I would expect you may need to use the same level of care as with a rock like chrysocolla. Given the large crystal grains I see in the sea jasper, I wouldn’t be surprised if more surface irregularities open up over time just due to knocking around, even in a polish or burnish stage. Edit: I just realized you can’t see the flash in the stones very well due to the lighting, but they both have a bit of flash to them. This picture may be a little better.
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standles
spending too much on rocks
Well all I got was a rock ... Cool!
Member since February 2021
Posts: 325
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Post by standles on Apr 30, 2021 8:36:20 GMT -5
Brian Yeah I am beginning to think it is not jasper either. As for breaking down I figure it would have done that in the 60/90 or 220 stage since both of them were done in a large rotary. they were fine when I put them in vibratory at 600. In any case as you saw I have 2 more pounds of it. next time through I will try it with soap instead of borax and see if that makes a difference. Might even after the rest of this batch finishes at polish drop a pound in with borax water to see what happens.
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standles
spending too much on rocks
Well all I got was a rock ... Cool!
Member since February 2021
Posts: 325
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Post by standles on Apr 30, 2021 8:38:01 GMT -5
Borax should not harm rocks at all. Something else must be the issue. However it is very toxic to all plants so borax water waste is hard to dispose of. Dreft soap is the best for that final wash in my book. I have had no problems using Borax with a variety of rocks. It is also great to kill Creeping Charlie plants. They can take over a shaded yard very quickly. Borax was the only thing that would kill them. I now use my Borax slurry as a plant killer. Yes, I have been doing same. works great on woody sticker vines and such. I pour out waste on areas I want nothing to grow in.
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Brian
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since July 2020
Posts: 1,506
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Post by Brian on Apr 30, 2021 10:45:39 GMT -5
Brian Yeah I am beginning to think it is not jasper either. As for breaking down I figure it would have done that in the 60/90 or 220 stage since both of them were done in a large rotary. they were fine when I put them in vibratory at 600. In any case as you saw I have 2 more pounds of it. next time through I will try it with soap instead of borax and see if that makes a difference. Might even after the rest of this batch finishes at polish drop a pound in with borax water to see what happens. With such big grains in the sea jasper, I could see a couple things happening. As the crystals/grains get worn down, they become smaller and could come loose, especially with repeated knocking around. Those loose grains can either fall out or allow the polish/borax/whatever seep in and make things look worse than before. That’s my guess. My kids tried tumbling a piece or two of the sea jasper in their first tumble and I am pretty sure it did not work out. I set it aside to try again with some other more delicate rocks to see if that may help. Based on the looks of the rough, I don’t have very high hopes for it. It seems to be mostly made up of little quartz crystals in a small amount of a matrix. Yours looks less quartzy than mine, so hopefully you will have good luck with it!
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Post by joshuamcduffie on Apr 30, 2021 11:56:10 GMT -5
Why are you boraxing between grits? Why not just tumble in water to ensure that the batch is clean between grits and then burnish using the borax at the end? To me there seems no benefit to using it between stages.
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standles
spending too much on rocks
Well all I got was a rock ... Cool!
Member since February 2021
Posts: 325
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Post by standles on Apr 30, 2021 13:47:28 GMT -5
Why are you boraxing between grits? Why not just tumble in water to ensure that the batch is clean between grits and then burnish using the borax at the end? To me there seems no benefit to using it between stages. I always use borax before polish stage to ensure all grit is removed. Borax just cleans (not actually burnish in true sense of word) which is why soap works as well.
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victor1941
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since November 2011
Posts: 1,975
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Post by victor1941 on Apr 30, 2021 15:02:21 GMT -5
I think part of your problem is material with varying hardness. The dark green looks good and the other sections look banged up by harder rocks or show undercutting. Grind it down and run this load separately with a high percent of media and see what happens.
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