heathervee
having dreams about rocks
Member since August 2021
Posts: 57
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Post by heathervee on Oct 4, 2021 18:23:07 GMT -5
I accidently nuked my first post asking for input, and I think I killed two batches of stone - fun! Long story short - I ran two barrels of stone (breakdown below) and wanted to get them some more luster. I threw both batches together into one barrel, along w/ 4 mystery (maybe cursed) stones into a burnish for 24 hours. Now they all look like poo - WAY worse than pre-burnish! Here's what I think may have happened, but I'd love to get thoughts from people who actually know what they are doing!!! 1) The barrel/ceramic was dirty (it was very grey and gross after the burnish stage today) 2) Borax is too harsh for the burnish? 3) The more jagged rutilated quartz murdered the other stones when tumbled together 4) The 4 mystery stones (from my very first tumble) ARE actually cursed Here's my gear, times and what was in barrel Nat Geo tumbler - amethyst, sea jasper, rando quartz Stage 1 @ 5 days Stage 2 @ 8 days Stage 3 @ 8 days, then 8 more days Stage 4 @ 9 days Burnish @ 24 hrs Dan and Darci tumbler - rutilated quartz Stage 1 @ 7 days Stage 2 @ 8 days Stage 3 @ 8 days Stage 4 @ 9 days Burnish @ 24 hrs In each load: Nat Geo grit for stages 1 -3 (can't find coarseness on-line or on the bottles) Polly Plastics stage 4 1200 aluminum oxide Polly Plastics ceramic filler Tried to add photos last time and that is what nuked the first post - I hope the links work better! Pitted after burnishMixed batch after burnish - hazy and blah Rutilated Quartz after burnishMixed batch again after burnish stupid mystery stone... cursed?
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afterburnt
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since June 2021
Posts: 152
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Post by afterburnt on Oct 4, 2021 18:40:09 GMT -5
I have seen youtubes that indicate the Nat Geo grit is not very good.
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Post by Son Of Beach on Oct 4, 2021 18:52:36 GMT -5
I accidently nuked my first post asking for input, and I think I killed two batches of stone - fun! Long story short - I ran two barrels of stone (breakdown below) and wanted to get them some more luster. I threw both batches together into one barrel, along w/ 4 mystery (maybe cursed) stones into a burnish for 24 hours. Now they all look like poo - WAY worse than pre-burnish! Here's what I think may have happened, but I'd love to get thoughts from people who actually know what they are doing!!! 1) The barrel/ceramic was dirty (it was very grey and gross after the burnish stage today) 2) Borax is too harsh for the burnish? 3) The more jagged rutilated quartz murdered the other stones when tumbled together 4) The 4 mystery stones (from my very first tumble) ARE actually cursed Here's my gear, times and what was in barrel Nat Geo tumbler - amethyst, sea jasper, rando quartz Stage 1 @ 5 days Stage 2 @ 8 days Stage 3 @ 8 days, then 8 more days Stage 4 @ 9 days Burnish @ 24 hrs Dan and Darci tumbler - rutilated quartz Stage 1 @ 7 days Stage 2 @ 8 days Stage 3 @ 8 days Stage 4 @ 9 days Burnish @ 24 hrs In each load: Nat Geo grit for stages 1 -3 (can't find coarseness on-line or on the bottles) Polly Plastics stage 4 1200 aluminum oxide Polly Plastics ceramic filler Tried to add photos last time and that is what nuked the first post - I hope the links work better! Pitted after burnishMixed batch after burnish - hazy and blah Rutilated Quartz after burnishMixed batch again after burnish stupid mystery stone... cursed?I'll be honest, I jumped into rock tumbling after watching many of Michigan Rocks you tube videos. Without his insights there is a good chance I would have struggled out of the gate. So I'll share the link to the video that really helped me out. I re watched 3-4 times before I felt like I had a grasp on it all. forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/93810/excellent-resource-tumbling-videos Not saying you can't do your own thing, but I feel like it's a valuable resource. I should note, when you click on the video, there are a few links below for both rotary and vibratory finishing steps. Here is another good source for rotary tumbling forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/92472/lurker-6-years-more
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Post by pauls on Oct 4, 2021 19:28:58 GMT -5
Nope, you didn't kill anything. As long as you haven't ground your rocks away to sludge then you still have rocks that you can polish. If you have ground rocks away to sludge then they were too soft to be in a tumbler anyway. The National Geographic tumblers set you up to fail, The instructions are not exactly truthful and they don't even include a polish so at best you will get a hazy sort of none polish. Forget about a week in all stages, first stage in my tumblers is usually months, and even then I take the rocks out occasionally and cull stuff that will never make it, some fractures and holes are so deep that tumbling them to remove the fracture would mean removing most of the rock, others are sawed along fractures, holes ground out, edges tidied up, then back for some more time in coarse. Subsequent grits can be around a week but usually I like to keep them in for a couple of weeks. Polish, you will need to buy yourself some polish (Aluminium Oxide) from the rock shed, have your barrel 3/4 full, never less or you will end up with bruising, also remove any chipped or broken rocks, rocks that are broken will scratch other rocks so you will struggle to get a polish.
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heathervee
having dreams about rocks
Member since August 2021
Posts: 57
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Post by heathervee on Oct 4, 2021 20:37:48 GMT -5
I have seen youtubes that indicate the Nat Geo grit is not very good. I'm slowly learning that!!!
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heathervee
having dreams about rocks
Member since August 2021
Posts: 57
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Post by heathervee on Oct 4, 2021 20:42:56 GMT -5
I accidently nuked my first post asking for input, and I think I killed two batches of stone - fun! Long story short - I ran two barrels of stone (breakdown below) and wanted to get them some more luster. I threw both batches together into one barrel, along w/ 4 mystery (maybe cursed) stones into a burnish for 24 hours. Now they all look like poo - WAY worse than pre-burnish! Here's what I think may have happened, but I'd love to get thoughts from people who actually know what they are doing!!! 1) The barrel/ceramic was dirty (it was very grey and gross after the burnish stage today) 2) Borax is too harsh for the burnish? 3) The more jagged rutilated quartz murdered the other stones when tumbled together 4) The 4 mystery stones (from my very first tumble) ARE actually cursed Here's my gear, times and what was in barrel Nat Geo tumbler - amethyst, sea jasper, rando quartz Stage 1 @ 5 days Stage 2 @ 8 days Stage 3 @ 8 days, then 8 more days Stage 4 @ 9 days Burnish @ 24 hrs Dan and Darci tumbler - rutilated quartz Stage 1 @ 7 days Stage 2 @ 8 days Stage 3 @ 8 days Stage 4 @ 9 days Burnish @ 24 hrs In each load: Nat Geo grit for stages 1 -3 (can't find coarseness on-line or on the bottles) Polly Plastics stage 4 1200 aluminum oxide Polly Plastics ceramic filler Tried to add photos last time and that is what nuked the first post - I hope the links work better! Pitted after burnishMixed batch after burnish - hazy and blah Rutilated Quartz after burnishMixed batch again after burnish stupid mystery stone... cursed?I'll be honest, I jumped into rock tumbling after watching many of Michigan Rocks you tube videos. Without his insights there is a good chance I would have struggled out of the gate. So I'll share the link to the video that really helped me out. I re watched 3-4 times before I felt like I had a grasp on it all. forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/93810/excellent-resource-tumbling-videos Not saying you can't do your own thing, but I feel like it's a valuable resource. I should note, when you click on the video, there are a few links below for both rotary and vibratory finishing steps. Here is another good source for rotary tumbling forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/92472/lurker-6-years-moreThank you, I will definitely check out those videos!! In true ADD fashion, I got into rock tumbling while on vacation, had a tumbler waiting for me when we got back home and have WAY too many pieces of rough in Tupperware totes! I'm especially impatient at trying to ID the pieces I get in mixed stone bags!!!!
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heathervee
having dreams about rocks
Member since August 2021
Posts: 57
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Post by heathervee on Oct 4, 2021 20:46:32 GMT -5
Nope, you didn't kill anything. As long as you haven't ground your rocks away to sludge then you still have rocks that you can polish. If you have ground rocks away to sludge then they were too soft to be in a tumbler anyway. The National Geographic tumblers set you up to fail, The instructions are not exactly truthful and they don't even include a polish so at best you will get a hazy sort of none polish. Forget about a week in all stages, first stage in my tumblers is usually months, and even then I take the rocks out occasionally and cull stuff that will never make it, some fractures and holes are so deep that tumbling them to remove the fracture would mean removing most of the rock, others are sawed along fractures, holes ground out, edges tidied up, then back for some more time in coarse. Subsequent grits can be around a week but usually I like to keep them in for a couple of weeks. Polish, you will need to buy yourself some polish (Aluminium Oxide) from the rock shed, have your barrel 3/4 full, never less or you will end up with bruising, also remove any chipped or broken rocks, rocks that are broken will scratch other rocks so you will struggle to get a polish. MONTHS? ? Won't my stones grind away? Am I supposed to use very large pieces to start? And you can saw rocks? ??
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terryjh
starting to shine!
Member since July 2021
Posts: 46
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Post by terryjh on Oct 4, 2021 22:30:24 GMT -5
Hi Heathervee and thanks for posting. I'll jump in here for a moment about tumble duration, etc.
My first stage of coarse grind does go a month on average and as pauls noted, many other hobbyists here go longer. Rock size? I don't know your tumbler size but with my 3 pound drum I go with about 2" max but remember to use many different/various smaller sizes during the same tumble session.
This hobby is definitely trying to give me a much needed dose of patience. The tip on watching Michigan Rocks on youtube is an excellent one. That fellow up in Michigan has been a great help. Hang in there and keep asking about stuff. This forum is awesome.
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Post by stephan on Oct 5, 2021 0:25:33 GMT -5
I’m no help on tumbling, but I can tell you that your “rutilated quartz” is something else entirely. Possibly tourmalinated, but I wouldn’t swear to that either. Rutile is very fine threads: IMG_7529_Rutilated quartz by sdttds, on Flickr
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Post by pauls on Oct 5, 2021 1:00:46 GMT -5
[/quote]MONTHS? ? Won't my stones grind away? Am I supposed to use very large pieces to start? And you can saw rocks? ??[/quote] They wont grind away if you are using suitably hard rocks, Agate Petrified wood etc. Yes you can saw rocks, I'm not sure if you are asking if you can saw rocks for tumbling, or at all, so I will guess you didn't know about Diamond saws, They are a thing, have you ever seen people cutting tiles or concrete or bricks, all are diamond saws. We have specialised Diamond saws for Lapidary for cutting rocks, they are great for making rocks smaller for tumbling as they don't fill rocks with lots of cracks. Your Rutilated Quartz is actually Tourmaline.
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heathervee
having dreams about rocks
Member since August 2021
Posts: 57
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Post by heathervee on Oct 5, 2021 6:24:44 GMT -5
I’m no help on tumbling, but I can tell you that your “rutilated quartz” is something else entirely. Possibly tourmalinated, but I wouldn’t swear to that either. Rutile is very fine threads: IMG_7529_Rutilated quartz by sdttds, on Flickr Son of a biscuit... I bought it off a dealer on Etsy as a 1 lb bag of black and white rutilated quartz. I guess finding reputable rough and learning how to ID it is something else I have to keep learning
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wpotterw
spending too much on rocks
Member since September 2016
Posts: 421
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Post by wpotterw on Oct 5, 2021 7:38:30 GMT -5
I’m no help on tumbling, but I can tell you that your “rutilated quartz” is something else entirely. Possibly tourmalinated, but I wouldn’t swear to that either. Rutile is very fine threads: IMG_7529_Rutilated quartz by sdttds, on Flickr Son of a biscuit... I bought it off a dealer on Etsy as a 1 lb bag of black and white rutilated quartz. I guess finding reputable rough and learning how to ID it is something else I have to keep learning Millerite?
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quartzilla
Cave Dweller
Member since April 2020
Posts: 1,215
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Post by quartzilla on Oct 5, 2021 7:38:38 GMT -5
I’m no help on tumbling, but I can tell you that your “rutilated quartz” is something else entirely. Possibly tourmalinated, but I wouldn’t swear to that either. Rutile is very fine threads: IMG_7529_Rutilated quartz by sdttds, on Flickr Son of a biscuit... I bought it off a dealer on Etsy as a 1 lb bag of black and white rutilated quartz. I guess finding reputable rough and learning how to ID it is something else I have to keep learning Well pretty much everyone refers to that style of quartz as rutilated whether it’s actually rutile, tourmaline, or any other long needle like inclusions. I’m guilty of this as well. I have some rutilated (tourmaline, see there I go) running right now. It makes beautiful stones if done properly.
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heathervee
having dreams about rocks
Member since August 2021
Posts: 57
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Post by heathervee on Oct 5, 2021 8:52:12 GMT -5
I’m no help on tumbling, but I can tell you that your “rutilated quartz” is something else entirely. Possibly tourmalinated, but I wouldn’t swear to that either. Rutile is very fine threads: IMG_7529_Rutilated quartz by sdttds, on Flickr It's so pretty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm also a macro photographer (yes, I know you can't tell from the pics I posted on the thread) and I can't wait to start shooting my finished tumbles!
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Post by stephan on Oct 5, 2021 14:08:01 GMT -5
heathervee when it comes to stones, a lot of people on Etsy are selling something other than what they claim. I like to assume that (for at least some of them) it's an honest mistake. wpotterw I'm not super familiar with Millerite, but it seems to be a radiating spray of needles. Rutile needles in quartz are usually single, random threads. I have no idea if Millerite occurs within quartz. quartzilla that is probably true. I just like to give people a heads-up. Tourmalinated is still a pretty cool thing to have. At least this isn't a cheap know-off thing (like dyed howlite for turquoise). I'd actually like to find slabs of both tourmalinated and rutilated quartz for cabbing (at a decent price, LOL). Now for the chemical difference between the three: Rutile is titanium oxide (TiO 2) -- yup, the white sunblock for lifeguard noses Tourmaline is a rather complex boron silicate compounded with highly variable metal ions and their salts (Ca,K,Na)(Al,Fe,Li,Mg,Mn) 3(Al,Cr,Fe,V) 6(BO 3) 3(Si,Al,B) 6O 18(OH,F) 4 -- which is why its appearance is quite varied Millerite is nickel sulfide (NiS)
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heathervee
having dreams about rocks
Member since August 2021
Posts: 57
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Post by heathervee on Oct 5, 2021 20:38:20 GMT -5
Thanks again for the help everyone! I watched a LOT of videos today while I should have been working and decided to run a new load. I'm using the small tumbler to make sure I can keep the barrel 3/4 full more easily. Ditched the Nat Geo grit too!
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heathervee
having dreams about rocks
Member since August 2021
Posts: 57
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Post by heathervee on Oct 5, 2021 20:39:45 GMT -5
And the plan is to let this run as long as it needs, not based on a formula in a booklet!!!
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Post by jasoninsd on Oct 5, 2021 20:46:07 GMT -5
Thanks again for the help everyone! I watched a LOT of videos today while I should have been working and decided to run a new load. I'm using the small tumbler to make sure I can keep the barrel 3/4 full more easily. Ditched the Nat Geo grit too! Been watching this thread with interest. I don't have enough tumbling experience to chime in about that...but I have to say THIS made me chuckle out loud!
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RedWingTumbler
having dreams about rocks
Member since April 2021
Posts: 65
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Post by RedWingTumbler on Oct 6, 2021 8:51:26 GMT -5
I accidently nuked my first post asking for input, and I think I killed two batches of stone - fun! Long story short - I ran two barrels of stone (breakdown below) and wanted to get them some more luster. I threw both batches together into one barrel, along w/ 4 mystery (maybe cursed) stones into a burnish for 24 hours. Now they all look like poo - WAY worse than pre-burnish! Here's what I think may have happened, but I'd love to get thoughts from people who actually know what they are doing!!! 1) The barrel/ceramic was dirty (it was very grey and gross after the burnish stage today) 2) Borax is too harsh for the burnish? 3) The more jagged rutilated quartz murdered the other stones when tumbled together 4) The 4 mystery stones (from my very first tumble) ARE actually cursed Here's my gear, times and what was in barrel Nat Geo tumbler - amethyst, sea jasper, rando quartz Stage 1 @ 5 days Stage 2 @ 8 days Stage 3 @ 8 days, then 8 more days Stage 4 @ 9 days Burnish @ 24 hrs Dan and Darci tumbler - rutilated quartz Stage 1 @ 7 days Stage 2 @ 8 days Stage 3 @ 8 days Stage 4 @ 9 days Burnish @ 24 hrs In each load: Nat Geo grit for stages 1 -3 (can't find coarseness on-line or on the bottles) Polly Plastics stage 4 1200 aluminum oxide Polly Plastics ceramic filler Tried to add photos last time and that is what nuked the first post - I hope the links work better! Pitted after burnishMixed batch after burnish - hazy and blah Rutilated Quartz after burnishMixed batch again after burnish stupid mystery stone... cursed?Welcome to the forum, heathervee! I'm also using Nat Geo tumblers (I have two of the 3-lb models), as well as a Thumler's. As others have pointed out, the Nat Geo grit is not sufficient for producing a good polish. The main issue is that 1200 grit is what most people refer to as "pre-polish." Actual aluminum oxide polish is about ten times finer. I get mine from rockshed.com. Also, I find that I get the best results with Mohs 7 rocks (like jasper, quartz, & agates) if I tumble them in stage 1 until they are all smooth edges & the pits are gone, which often takes 4 to 6 cycles of 7 days each. I clean the barrel & stones after each cycle, inspect the stones, separate the ones that are smooth enough for stage 2, & add more rough stones to keep the barrel 3/4 full. I don't like to mix rocks of different hardness. In the earlier stages, the softer rocks can grind to nothing if left too long in coarse grit. In the later stages, the softer rocks can be bruised by the harder rocks. Even if you separate your rocks by hardness, once in a while, a rock will fracture in one of the last stages and cause pitting and chipping (especially with quartz & amethyst). I will set those damaged rocks aside & put them in with stage 2 (or even stage 1, in the worst cases). Looking at your pictures, you have a bunch of what looks like moonstone (the white stones with black splotches). I've found that while they are fairly hard (mohs 6-6.5), they are also very fragile & prone to fracture. In my experience (I've done several batches of moonstone), they like to have about 50% cushioning with ceramic media in the last 2-3 stages, or they can tear each other apart. So don't worry, you can put your rocks back into an earlier stage to grind away the bad spots & then get some decent polish for stage 4 (just be sure to separate rocks by type). Good luck!
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Post by Bob on Oct 6, 2021 16:10:02 GMT -5
I have not read everything others posted, but just read your original post and the photos.
You're rushing things A LOT. Throw those rocks, or others similar, back into your largest grit and let them go for a week. Rinse and do it again with new grit. Again. Again. That will be 4 weeks = 28 days Now look at the rocks. You will probably be pleasantly surprised at what you see and will start figuring it out some. If you post again after that, I and many others will have more guidance. Sometimes it takes months in rough grind.
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