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Post by stephan on Oct 18, 2021 23:34:42 GMT -5
If cutting wet properly, there is no dust. A full face mask is completely unnecessary, and most people wear masks in a way that render them useless. I hate to tell you, but if you were up coughing, either something else was wrong, or you were using the saw incorrectly. The fine coating of rock dust on every surface points toward improper use. Properly wetted swarf should not travel far. That (and cooling) is the point of cutting wet. I’m sure I was doing something wrong! Most noobs do- that’s how you learn. I’m tying to understand why we wouldn’t advocate for each other’s safety. Few of us will ever develop a perfect technique. O, I absolutely advocate for safety, but also like to point out when it’s not needed, or could be detrimental. Yes, we all make mistakes,but in cases like this, they really won’t kill us. The level of exposure we’re talking about is very low, so unless you also feel that you need to wear a respirator whenever you drive on a dirt road, or the local farmer plows his/her field, you really don’t need it. Since, after driving on a dirt road, your car is generally covered by rock dust. In Industrial Hygiene there is something called the hierarchy of controls. In that hierarchy, engineering controls (like cutting with a wet saw) are far more effective than PPE (like wearing a respirator). In fact, PPE is the least effective control.
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afterburnt
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since June 2021
Posts: 152
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Post by afterburnt on Oct 19, 2021 10:17:32 GMT -5
Wear a mask. Spend a little on some 3M disposables or spend a lot on a full face respirator, but for the love of rocks, wear a mask in addition to the plugs and goggles. Cutting wet is good, yes it does cut down on airborne particulates, but it does not eliminate all risk. I started cutting wet with the same saw in my basement and very foolishly went without a mask the first couple go-rounds. Within two weeks I had a hearty hacking cough that would keep me up at night. Upon further inspection I noticed my basement workshop had collected a fine coating of rock dust on every surface, despite my lazy efforts to wipe up afterwards. That same rock dust gets in your lungs and can mess you up fast. I’m a dummy, learn from my mistake, and don’t be like me. Like someone said on this forum in another dust-related thread, a doctor will tell you: lung cancer is a relatively fast death. Lung disease is a long, slow, suffering way to go. If cutting wet properly, there is no dust. A full face mask is completely unnecessary, and most people wear masks in a way that render them useless. I hate to tell you, but if you were up coughing, either something else was wrong, or you were using the saw incorrectly. The fine coating of rock dust on every surface points toward improper use. Properly wetted swarf should not travel far. That (and cooling) is the point of cutting wet. How bout describing how to cut properly?
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hypodactylus
spending too much on rocks
Member since July 2021
Posts: 434
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Post by hypodactylus on Oct 19, 2021 12:40:17 GMT -5
I don't think anyone in this discussion has been advocating against appropriate safety measures. I think this conversation is ongoing because we are looking to convey understanding of what entails 'appropriate' safety measures. You could wear a full hazmat suit while cutting rock if that suits your fancy. However, that doesn't mean we should advocate for everyone else to do the same; it is simply unnecessary.
There are many trades that deal with cutting/drilling dust. Lots of time and money has been spent on ensuring safety; the current guidelines are widely seen as effective and safe. If anyone feels that they should take additional measures; they should absolutely do so! Just remember not to promote your extra measures as more effective for other people; there is a good chance that they are not.
In terms of our conversation about dust; proper wet cutting involves making sure the rocks you are cutting, the blade, and the resulting dust are all wet throughout the process. If your water flow is not enough to keep those surfaces wet at your pace of cutting, then you can have an airborne dust problem.
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Post by stephan on Oct 19, 2021 13:14:42 GMT -5
I don't think anyone in this discussion has been advocating against appropriate safety measures. I think this conversation is ongoing because we are looking to convey understanding of what entails 'appropriate' safety measures. You could wear a full hazmat suit while cutting rock if that suits your fancy. However, that doesn't mean we should advocate for everyone else to do the same; it is simply unnecessary. There are many trades that deal with cutting/drilling dust. Lots of time and money has been spent on ensuring safety; the current guidelines are widely seen as effective and safe. If anyone feels that they should take additional measures; they should absolutely do so! Just remember not to promote your extra measures as more effective for other people; there is a good chance that they are not. In terms of our conversation about dust; proper wet cutting involves making sure the rocks you are cutting, the blade, and the resulting dust are all wet throughout the process. If your water flow is not enough to keep those surfaces wet at your pace of cutting, then you can have an airborne dust problem. Well-said.
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Post by stephan on Oct 19, 2021 13:20:05 GMT -5
If cutting wet properly, there is no dust. A full face mask is completely unnecessary, and most people wear masks in a way that render them useless. I hate to tell you, but if you were up coughing, either something else was wrong, or you were using the saw incorrectly. The fine coating of rock dust on every surface points toward improper use. Properly wetted swarf should not travel far. That (and cooling) is the point of cutting wet. How bout describing how to cut properly? The specifics are going to vary, depending on your equipment, but, generally speaking: 1. Use the lubricant (ie water or oil, usually) recommended by the manufacturer 2. Use the proper amount (there should be a fill line or two for min and max). If you use too much, mud will get everywhere. If you use too little, you'll make dust 3. Cut slowly, to ensure the blade stays wet. 4. Provide adequate ventilation, whenever possible. Working outside is generally regarded at adequately ventilated. Working inside, a fan would suffice, or you could install an elephant trunk, if you want to get fancy. Both wet cutting and ventilation are more effective than PPE.
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afterburnt
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since June 2021
Posts: 152
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Post by afterburnt on Oct 19, 2021 15:46:32 GMT -5
How bout describing how to cut properly? The specifics are going to vary, depending on your equipment, but, generally speaking: 1. Use the lubricant (ie water or oil, usually) recommended by the manufacturer 2. Use the proper amount (there should be a fill line or two for min and max). If you use too much, mud will get everywhere. If you use too little, you'll make dust 3. Cut slowly, to ensure the blade stays wet. 4. Provide adequate ventilation, whenever possible. Working outside is generally regarded at adequately ventilated. Working inside, a fan would suffice, or you could install an elephant trunk, if you want to get fancy. Both wet cutting and ventilation are more effective than PPE. Any tips on cutting stuff like malachite etc? I have heard this can be particularly bad if inhaled.
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Post by stephan on Oct 20, 2021 14:39:06 GMT -5
The specifics are going to vary, depending on your equipment, but, generally speaking: 1. Use the lubricant (ie water or oil, usually) recommended by the manufacturer 2. Use the proper amount (there should be a fill line or two for min and max). If you use too much, mud will get everywhere. If you use too little, you'll make dust 3. Cut slowly, to ensure the blade stays wet. 4. Provide adequate ventilation, whenever possible. Working outside is generally regarded at adequately ventilated. Working inside, a fan would suffice, or you could install an elephant trunk, if you want to get fancy. Both wet cutting and ventilation are more effective than PPE. Any tips on cutting stuff like malachite etc? I have heard this can be particularly bad if inhaled. Speaking for myself, I still wouldn't worry too much about it, especially if cutting wet, well-ventilated and the exposure is limited. Gloves might not be a bad idea. If you do work with malachite all the time, maybe a dust mask during the polishing steps. Remember, you aren't really getting down to an appreciable amount of hazardous particle size until you go past 1200 grit (the swarf is going to be pretty much the same as your grit, and 1200 grit = 15 microns. At 3000 grit, you'd be at approximately 6-7 microns). The toxicity for copper carbonate is moderate. Liver enzyme elevation (which is not yet necessarily liver damage) occurs at roughly 30mg/kg inhaled or eaten (for an average person that is about 2 grams total, a little under half a teaspoon (into your lungs, not your nose; or into your stomach). To sustain actual damage, you would have to do that on a fairly regular basis. Remember, too, that experiments that determine these doses deliver the test-substance very efficiently to ensure every last bit is absorbed by the test subject. Real-world exposure is far less efficient.
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Post by holajonathan on Oct 20, 2021 17:44:48 GMT -5
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Post by stephan on Oct 21, 2021 0:16:32 GMT -5
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Post by holajonathan on Oct 21, 2021 0:52:26 GMT -5
The yellow TyChem coveralls are chemical resistant and have serged seams. Keeps the malachite off my skin.
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afterburnt
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since June 2021
Posts: 152
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Post by afterburnt on Oct 21, 2021 9:26:35 GMT -5
Try taking the guard off and using it backwards, you wont need that suit.
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afterburnt
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since June 2021
Posts: 152
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Post by afterburnt on Oct 24, 2021 11:35:27 GMT -5
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afterburnt
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since June 2021
Posts: 152
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Post by afterburnt on Oct 24, 2021 11:35:48 GMT -5
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hypodactylus
spending too much on rocks
Member since July 2021
Posts: 434
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Post by hypodactylus on Oct 24, 2021 11:51:34 GMT -5
Yeah, I admittedly get a bit concerned about the chemical contents/properties of the rocks I acquire.
There are some things that can definitely be a problem if not detected and dealt with properly. Part of the problem is that most of us (including me) don't have the expertise to understand what is a concern and how to properly address the concern.
Is my petrified wood radioactive? Should I spend $300 trying to figure that out?
If my child licks a polished piece of Amazonite, should I worry? (I have had to tell my child not to lick the door handle; she is seven.... I am sure there are many here who can relate...)
Minerals can pose a threat; the problem is that most of us don't actually understand what needs managing and how to manage it. It is something that I (mentally) struggle with in the hobby; I am naturally anxious and cautious. I like to try to understand which precautions are actually effective. I am also aware that some steps people take to remediate problems actually make them worse...
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afterburnt
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since June 2021
Posts: 152
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Post by afterburnt on Oct 24, 2021 17:08:15 GMT -5
Yeah, I admittedly get a bit concerned about the chemical contents/properties of the rocks I acquire. There are some things that can definitely be a problem if not detected and dealt with properly. Part of the problem is that most of us (including me) don't have the expertise to understand what is a concern and how to properly address the concern. Is my petrified wood radioactive? Should I spend $300 trying to figure that out? If my child licks a polished piece of Amazonite, should I worry? (I have had to tell my child not to lick the door handle; she is seven.... I am sure there are many here who can relate...) Minerals can pose a threat; the problem is that most of us don't actually understand what needs managing and how to manage it. It is something that I (mentally) struggle with in the hobby; I am naturally anxious and cautious. I like to try to understand which precautions are actually effective. I am also aware that some steps people take to remediate problems actually make them worse... just some stuff I found on the internet
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Post by knave on Oct 24, 2021 17:28:46 GMT -5
Even in asbestos abatement, keeping th material wet, so no friable particles become airborne is sufficient
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Post by catmandewe on Oct 24, 2021 17:38:02 GMT -5
The brick trick only works if you have the proper brick. Most bricks are made out of clay/mud, which does nothing to sharpen your blade. Fire rated bricks use mostly Aluminum Oxide which can work to sharpen your blade.
Tony
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afterburnt
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since June 2021
Posts: 152
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Post by afterburnt on Oct 24, 2021 20:23:09 GMT -5
Even in asbestos abatement, keeping th material wet, so no friable particles become airborne is sufficient So they say, have you ever seen a "superfund" site?
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Post by knave on Oct 24, 2021 20:36:14 GMT -5
Even in asbestos abatement, keeping th material wet, so no friable particles become airborne is sufficient So they say, have you ever seen a "superfund" site? No, let me chaeck it out. I’m happy to be corrected.
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Post by knave on Oct 24, 2021 20:42:07 GMT -5
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