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Post by vegasjames on Jan 17, 2022 4:11:54 GMT -5
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Post by Peruano on Jan 17, 2022 7:45:44 GMT -5
Nice. Very nice.
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Post by victor1941 on Jan 17, 2022 9:54:20 GMT -5
Very interesting material. Is the color light purple and what changes causes the opalized wood to form?
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Post by perkins17 on Jan 17, 2022 11:17:37 GMT -5
That's really neat! We have opalized wood just like that up here in Washington. What are you going to do with it? I've only been able to make one cab of it.
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Post by jasoninsd on Jan 17, 2022 12:31:31 GMT -5
Those are some fantastic looking specimens James!  |
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Post by vegasjames on Jan 17, 2022 23:40:38 GMT -5
Very interesting material. Is the color light purple and what changes causes the opalized wood to form? It is primarily blue, white and small amounts of purple. There are also some pieces with green mixed in with the blue. I found a second opalized log about 100 yards from this one that is a very dark purple, then an agatized log that was more black about 40 yards from that one.
Opal starts as a silica gel. As the molecules start to attract towards each other, water gets squeezed out. When sufficient is squeezed out the gel hardens in to opal, which has a water content of 3-21%. If the water content of the opal starts to decline below 3% the stone will gain density and start to crystalize going from an amorphous opal to a crptocrystalline chalcedony (common chalcedony, agate, jasper, chert/flint).
The source of the silica plays a role in the type of chalcedony formed in the long run. Common chalcedony, agate and jaspers are derived from opal that obtains silica from inorganic sources such as clay or sandstone. Chert/flint is formed from opal where the silica is derived from biogenic sources such as diatoms.
The stability of opal depends on a couple of factors. Aluminum oxide and water content. Opals formed from clays or diatomaceous earth can pick up the aluminum oxide from those silica sources. The higher the aluminum oxide content the harder and more stable the opal is. The higher the water content though, the less stable the opal is.
Geologists claim that the formation of opal takes millions of years, but there is a lot of evidence showing that this is actually very rapid and that opal can form and harden in as little as a year. My experiments so far have confirmed the other research that has shown this. I have played a couple times with making opal. I have managed to make some jelly opal, but never as precious opal. That is what I am currently working on is how to form precious opal.
The silica has an affinity for calcium, which is why we often see calcium sources such as bones, shells, etc. that become opalized in opal fields. I do not fully understand the opalization of wood, but have seen a lot of research showing it also occurs rather rapidly. I assume that it is very similar to the shells and bones with calcium playing a role. Calcium is the most abundant element in wood ash, so I suspect that the calcium plays a major role in the opalization of wood as the calcium in the wood attracts the silica as well as plays a role in the pH adjustment required for opal formation. The rest of my hypothesis here is that bacterial action on the polysaccharides of the wood (lignan, cellulsoe, hemicellulose) not only break down polysaccharides, but also add to the pH alterations required for opal formation. With bones and shells again this is similar except the action of the bacteria in these cases would be upon the proteins and glycoproteins breaking them down as the silica reacts with the calcium leading to a replacement of the material with opal.
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Post by vegasjames on Jan 18, 2022 0:56:53 GMT -5
That's really neat! We have opalized wood just like that up here in Washington. What are you going to do with it? I've only been able to make one cab of it. I will try to cab some of it. Keep some for display. Smaller pieces of opal I generally throw in the tumbler for a few days with just water to clean them up and smooth them out a little. |
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jamesp
Cave Dweller 
Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Jan 18, 2022 7:18:21 GMT -5
Beautiful wood James. Such white wood is common in Louisiana. Similar to this that you found. But rarely found in Florida. Was there a source of diatomaceous limestone and/or kaolin involved in this wood's formation ? I have had similar suspicions regarding the rate of formation of chalcedony and perhaps opal in Florida coral James. (I don't know how to delineate chalcedony from opal in Florida coral though just saying). Your statement caught me: "The stability of opal depends on a couple of factors. Aluminum oxide and water content. Opals formed from **clays or **diatomaceous earth can pick up the aluminum oxide from those silica sources. The higher the aluminum oxide content the harder and more stable the opal is. The higher the water content though, the less stable the opal is. Geologists claim that the formation of opal takes millions of years, but there is a lot of evidence showing that this is actually very rapid and that opal can form and harden in as little as a year. My experiments so far have confirmed the other research that has shown this. I have played a couple times with making opal. I have managed to make some jelly opal, but never as precious opal. That is what I am currently working on is how to form precious opal." Florida has so much diatomaceous rich limestone and constant liquid organic acid sources from forest runoffs making limestone dissolve quickly or in mass amounts anyway. The older bedrock limestone from older ocean(s) is physically carved away to make 20 to 30 foot deep canyons thru the limestone bedrock. So even 4 foot diameter coral heads can silicify totally solid to a very hard high quality chert like structure. Typical dissolved limestone river bluff about 30 feet tall:  One of the rivers is in south Georgia(the Withlacochee) has a large input of aluminum oxide runoff from the massive central Georgia kaolin clay beds:  The marine fossils found in the kaolin beds are often white, soft and opal like. The coral fossils found in the organic acid rich river south of the kaolin beds is dissolved limestone rich and famous for it's Mohs 7.5 super hard silicified fossils and coral. It is known that kaolin clay is a component of this river's soils due to ancient kaolin run-off into the river. Many of the coral silicifications have botryoidal chalcedony pockets in them due to pseudomorphing. When these corals pseudomorph the coralite columns silicify in a parallel geometry. But many pseudomorphs appear to have re-silicified after being broken from their original parallel geometry. These re-silicifications are difficult to age but I suspect they may have re-silicified in the past century or even faster. Here are some examples of re-silicifications: These samples show broken tubes that have not only silicified in place but also grew a layer of druzy crystals after the fact. These mess with my head.:   These samples appear to have no damage to the tubes. This is the most common geometry found in pseudomorphs(i.e. no damaged tubes).   Conclusion: Could be a figment of my imagination but I sense from field finds that some of these silicifications have occurred since rock collectors have molested some of these corals as if the silicification process is ongoing. Just saying conditions are favorable for massive silicification processes to continue to this day. Could it be ? Not sure how this would relate to opal though. I don't know if opalization and silicification are even related... The other conclusion is that the damage occured when the pseudomorph was completely sealed and the damage re-silicified within the pseudomorph's enclosed habitat. This makes perfect sense too. PS James. If my boat paddle ever gets a coating of opal on it I will let you know . |
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Post by vegasjames on Jan 18, 2022 9:15:33 GMT -5
Beautiful wood James. Such white wood is common in Louisiana. Similar to this that you found. But rarely found in Florida. Was there a source of diatomaceous limestone and/or kaolin involved in this wood's formation ? I have had similar suspicions regarding the rate of formation of chalcedony and perhaps opal in Florida coral James. (I don't know how to delineate chalcedony from opal in Florida coral though just saying). Your statement caught me: "The stability of opal depends on a couple of factors. Aluminum oxide and water content. Opals formed from **clays or **diatomaceous earth can pick up the aluminum oxide from those silica sources. The higher the aluminum oxide content the harder and more stable the opal is. The higher the water content though, the less stable the opal is. Geologists claim that the formation of opal takes millions of years, but there is a lot of evidence showing that this is actually very rapid and that opal can form and harden in as little as a year. My experiments so far have confirmed the other research that has shown this. I have played a couple times with making opal. I have managed to make some jelly opal, but never as precious opal. That is what I am currently working on is how to form precious opal." Florida has so much diatomaceous rich limestone and constant liquid organic acid sources from forest runoffs making limestone dissolve quickly or in mass amounts anyway. The older bedrock limestone from older ocean(s) is physically carved away to make 20 to 30 foot deep canyons thru the limestone bedrock. So even 4 foot diameter coral heads can silicify totally solid to a very hard high quality chert like structure. The marine fossils found in the kaolin beds are often white, soft and opal like. The coral fossils found in the organic acid rich river south of the kaolin beds is dissolved limestone rich and famous for it's Mohs 7.5 super hard silicified fossils and coral. It is known that kaolin clay is a component of this river's soils due to ancient kaolin run-off into the river. Many of the coral silicifications have botryoidal chalcedony pockets in them due to pseudomorphing. When these corals pseudomorph the coralite columns silicify in a parallel geometry. But many pseudomorphs appear to have re-silicified after being broken from their original parallel geometry. These re-silicifications are difficult to age but I suspect they may have re-silicified in the past century or even faster. Here are some examples of re-silicifications: These samples show broken tubes that have not only silicified in place but also grew a layer of druzy crystals after the fact. These mess with my head.: These samples appear to have no damage to the tubes. This is the most common geometry found in pseudomorphs(i.e. no damaged tubes). Conclusion: Could be a figment of my imagination but I sense from field finds that some of these silicifications have occurred since rock collectors have molested some of these corals as if the silicification process is ongoing. Just saying conditions are favorable for massive silicification processes to continue to this day. Could it be ? Not sure how this would relate to opal though. I don't know if opalization and silicification are even related... The other conclusion is that the damage occured when the pseudomorph was completely sealed and the damage re-silicified within the pseudomorph's enclosed habitat. This makes perfect sense too. PS James. If my boat paddle ever gets a coating of opal on it I will let you know  . Those are great samples.
There are diatomaceous earth mines about 25 miles from this site, but there are also a ton of clay deposits throughout the deserts here and often sandstone. So, I am not really sure what the silica source is this case.
Yes, opalization is still going on to this day, and not only in rocks.
There are reports in Australia of fence posts in opal clay converting in to opal in the buried portions of the fence posts. Obviously, this did not take millions of years as humans put those posts there.
These is also an interesting story about a miner in Australia who had a pet cat that passed away. So he wrapped the cat in his hat and placed the cat in the opal mine. The mine closed for about 50 years. When the new claim owners entered the mine they found the skeleton of the cat opalized as pink opal. Goes back to what I was saying about the calcium from sources like bone attracting dissolved silica and the alterations in pH by bacterial action on organics making pH changes.
As other examples, not rock related, we know that the stingers of bees and the sharp points on the stinging nettle plant are actually coated with opal. Obviously again did not take millions of years to form. And then there is "vegetable opal", which is an opal that forms naturally from the high silica content in bamboo sap, which also forms rapidly.
There is a guy in Australia that goes around to the opal fields and collects opal mud from the various locations. He then takes the mud out to his workshop, does a little mixing of a few chemicals in some jars and watches the precious opal grow in the jars. He says he can see the first growth in as little as 15 minutes. It takes about 6 months foe the chemicals to get used up and growth to stop. Then another 6 months of slow drying to allow the opal to harden. Each opal formed is identical tot he opal found in the fields for which each opal mud came from and scientists cannot distinguish between his opals and the naturally occurring opals.
As for the silification of the corals, yes it involves the same process. The coral is not going to suddenly turn to agate or chert. As I mentioned earlier, these are dehydration products of opal. Therefore, at some point the coral will going through replacement with a silica gel, which is fluid enough to migrate. As the gel loses water it transitions in to opal. As it continues to lose water then it transitions in to a chalcedony such as agate or chert.
The coral itself can act as one of the calcium sources for the original opal formation and eventual chert formation. With the tube formations though I seriously wonder if these were not part of the original coral. To me they remind me of cave formations and thus I would hypothesize that the tubes formed from the calcium rich limestone water seeping in through holes in the hollow coral formations thus forming miniature cave formations that then silcified later making them younger than than the coral formations themselves. Would make it pretty hard to date. Something to think about.
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jamesp
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Posts: 36,607
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Post by jamesp on Jan 18, 2022 10:02:28 GMT -5
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Post by victor1941 on Jan 18, 2022 10:43:54 GMT -5
In regard to the coral is it not possible that earthquakes might be responsible for the breakage and realignment of the tubes?
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Post by perkins17 on Jan 18, 2022 11:31:59 GMT -5
That's really neat! We have opalized wood just like that up here in Washington. What are you going to do with it? I've only been able to make one cab of it. I will try to cab some of it. Keep some for display. Smaller pieces of opal I generally throw in the tumbler for a few days with just water to clean them up and smooth them out a little. I tried a tumbler batch (twice) but I didn't get too got of results. It really undercut for me because of the banding. My specimen shelf is pretty much filled up with opal too! Pretty nice stuff. Thanks for posting pictures on here. Good luck with all that. |
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Jan 18, 2022 11:47:02 GMT -5
In regard to the coral is it not possible that earthquakes might be responsible for the breakage and realignment of the tubes? Great question. I spent a lot of time studying the fossilized coral in Florida. There are some that believe the Gulf of Mexico was created by the largest asteroid to ever hit the earth(Chicxulub, the extinction asteroid)) and blasted the then shallow gulf's shallow water coral on top of Florida. Only a theory Victor. It appears the coral grew right there in place on the high ridge running N-S along peninsular Florida during a 25 million year old deeper ocean and was NOT displaced by Chixulub because such an impact would have probably vaporized any coral near it. The fossil coral found is a shallow water species(0 to 20') is found predominantly at 90' above sea level unless erosion displaced it to a lower elevation. Other than that impact Florida has seen very little tectonic activity, there is rarely a single fault in it's entire underlying limestone bedrock. The coral I find was more recent and seem to have attached itself to the top of the older limestone bedrock. Some of North Florida has had erosion deposits dumped on it from the Appalachians covering up ice age and other fossils. Riding down the rivers you can see the swells and hills of the top of the limestone bedrock in the dissolved limestone river walls. Perhaps they are there because of varying amounts deposition of sea creatures that it is composed of or ocean currents that left ridge/valley ripples on the ocean bottom due to oceanic currents. Because of the lack of tectonic shuffling Florida is like a preserved ice age with little mixing and shuffling. And the bottom of the rivers at low water levels where the sand has been washed away is like walking on slightly disturbed ice age ground which is exciting. I found a piece of a giant turtle carapace and slightly downstream most of the rest of his skeleton. He was not disturbed by such forces IMO. James's opal observations are related to some of the fossil formations I see in Florida. Can't wait to see what his brilliant chemically trained mind comes up with. |
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Post by rockpickerforever on Jan 18, 2022 13:50:07 GMT -5
Equisetum is another opaline rich plant. Both prefer a silica rich soil for best growing performance. Equisetum is referred to as scouring rush since old timers used to scrub their pots and pans with it down by the creek. Another common name for that is horsetail. But then, I'm sure you knew that, jamesp. Love the pics of the coral psuedomorphs. vegasjames, I like your opalized wood, too. Is that from Gabbs, NV? I have a little bit of it that which came from a long time collector, paring down their collection. They said it had come from Gabbs, looks very similar to yours. |
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Jan 18, 2022 14:25:22 GMT -5
Equisetum is another opaline rich plant. Both prefer a silica rich soil for best growing performance. Equisetum is referred to as scouring rush since old timers used to scrub their pots and pans with it down by the creek. Another common name for that is horsetail. But then, I'm sure you knew that, jamesp. Love the pics of the coral psuedomorphs. vegasjames, I like your opalized wood, too. Is that from Gabbs, NV? I have a little bit of it that which came from a long time collector, paring down their collection. They said it had come from Gabbs, looks very similar to yours. About 300 1 gallon Horsetails in the foreground. Sold 900+ every year for many years. It would root from a tiny piece. Grew like a weed. Growers in our area had a hard time growing it - the trick was to grow it with an inch of water over the root crowns. I never told.  Next door in Alabama there is fossilized Horsetail up to 1 foot in diameter, no telling how tall it was. The ground must have been real rich in silica. Prehistoric chainsaws got dull cutting thru all the silica in it's cells . On a serious note bamboo dulls chainsaws quickly. Could it be it's high silica content ? Obnoxious plant... |
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Post by vegasjames on Jan 18, 2022 19:13:41 GMT -5
The synthetic opals are being made using a toxic and very expensive silica compound known as TEOS. With my experiments I am trying to mimic nature and therefore am using natural silica sources, particularly clays for more stability. My first opals I actually used kitty litter, but the came out pretty crappy.  Brought back some silica from a couple of opal fields I am also going to try and experiment with.
Yes, Equisetum is silica rich. Not as high as bamboo though, which is 7 times higher in silica. There are various species of Equisetum such as giant horsetail, common horsetail, sterile stem, bottle brush, etc. Not sure any of the silica is opaline in them. As far as I know the silica in the horsetails is not amorphous. Same with the psyllium, oat bran and rice brans that are also silica rich. For my experiments I am sticking mainly to clays, opal mud and diatomaceous earth as silica sources for now for several reasons.
Yes, silica is essential to the human body. It helps make up various structural proteins, is responsible for minerals going in to the bones, reduction of inflammation in joints and arterial walls and is important for proper nervous system function. The silica does not absorb as silica though, but rather is absorbed and utilized by the body as orthosilicic acid (OA). Some OA is formed simply by the action of water on silica, but the conversion is enhanced b the presence of acid, such as stomach acid. This is why we see a lot of what are termed 'aging diseases and conditions" such as emphysema, osteoporosis, diverticulitis, some forms of arthritis, cardiovascular disease, wrinkles, etc. A we age, methylation declines. This leads to a decline of stomach acid, which not only interferes with silica conversion to OA and thus absorption but also to further declines in stomach acid. The resultant loss of OA leads to these diseases and conditions due to the loss of structural proteins and increased inflammation. I have a write up explaining this more in depth here:
I avoid horsetail grass though as a silica source. The plant itself is toxic if ingested fresh as it contains an enzyme called thiaminase that destroys the B vitamin thiamine in the body. This enzyme is destroyed though with drying. The other issue with horsetail grass though is that it also contains nicotine. Therefore, ingesting horsetail grass constricts blood vessels. This can be an issue for people with cardiovascular disease, diabetes or Raynaud's disease or Raynaud's phenomena. I prefer using either bamboo stalk powder, which is 7 times higher in silica and dilates blood vessels instead, or the food grade diatomaceous earth (DE). Mainly the DE, which I add to my water and let settle out first so only the dissolved OA remains in the portion I drink. The DE is about $0.40 and ounce and an ounce will last at least a decade using it this way. A person can get silica in to their systems much more efficiently this way. A good sign that you are absorbing it is that the fingernails get really hard in about a week or so.
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Post by vegasjames on Jan 18, 2022 19:15:31 GMT -5
In regard to the coral is it not possible that earthquakes might be responsible for the breakage and realignment of the tubes? Yes, very likely as there would have to be sufficient force to break the silica structures with the hollow areas of the coral. |
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Post by vegasjames on Jan 18, 2022 19:27:58 GMT -5
Another common name for that is horsetail. But then, I'm sure you knew that, jamesp . Love the pics of the coral psuedomorphs. vegasjames , I like your opalized wood, too. Is that from Gabbs, NV? I have a little bit of it that which came from a long time collector, paring down their collection. They said it had come from Gabbs, looks very similar to yours. About 300 1 gallon Horsetails in the foreground. Sold 900+ every year for many years. It would root from a tiny piece. Grew like a weed. Growers in our area had a hard time growing it - the trick was to grow it with an inch of water over the root crowns. I never told. Next door in Alabama there is fossilized Horsetail up to 1 foot in diameter, no telling how tall it was. The ground must have been real rich in silica. Prehistoric chainsaws got dull cutting thru all the silica in it's cells . On a serious note bamboo dulls chainsaws quickly. Could it be it's high silica content ? Obnoxious plant... Horsetail grass is the most common name for this species. A couple other names are rattlesnake grass due to the tops of the grass looking like rattlesnake tails, and shavegrass. Again, there are other species such bottlebrush, which is a really pretty plant. There is giant horsetail growing in a spot along Galena Creek in Reno at the lower end of the ranch where my dad lived. It is a much darker green than this species and grows about feet tall. Always meant to get down to the spot and collect some to grow but never did. Seen some growing in Northern California as well, but cannot recall where. Been a long time.
No, this opal came from the Goldfield District. I have never collected at Gabbs. Have only been to Gabbs to visit family there and to drive right on through. I have family throughout Nevada. From what I have heard though, the opal from Gabbs is a grayish color with cinnabar stringers in it.
The horsetails also like very sandy soil, which is why they are so often found along river banks. I have found a lot of sterile stem horsetail and bottlebrush horsetail in sandy areas in the middle of meadows up away from the water though. They do have rhizomes and so yes, they can spread.
Also seen some up in Southern Utah that picked up so much iron from the soil that the plants were red.
Yes, bamboo is 7 times higher in silica than horsetail grass.
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Jan 18, 2022 21:27:16 GMT -5
Len Cram is the daddy of opal growing, jamesp. Even though he grows his opal in a shed, I suppose it could be called lab created opal. Len is a scientist and doesn't grow opal to sell it. Here's an article on how and why he does it. Some really good info in there. |
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Post by vegasjames on Jan 18, 2022 22:16:07 GMT -5
Len Cram is the daddy of opal growing, jamesp . Even though he grows his opal in a shed, I suppose it could be called lab created opal. Len is a scientist and doesn't grow opal to sell it. Here's an article on how and why he does it. Some really good info in there. Here is another article, and this one has pics of his opals being grown.
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Brought back some silica from a couple of opal fields I am also going to try and experiment with.
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