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Post by rockpickerforever on Sept 7, 2013 20:08:22 GMT -5
Yes, the cross cut is cool! All of them are very nice looking.
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Post by Pat on Sept 7, 2013 20:15:03 GMT -5
Beautiful set! Thanks for showing.
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gemfeller
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Post by gemfeller on Sept 7, 2013 21:25:32 GMT -5
I've seen many lace variations over the years but didn't know they all had trade names. Thanks for the education. Your first two "unknowns" remind me of Rosetta Lace, which was popular for a while. Any idea where it comes from?
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Sept 7, 2013 22:11:00 GMT -5
Rosetta Lace is not really agate. It's more of a high silica travertine that kind of mimics crazy lace. It's kind of variable in hardness and in the Mohs 4-5 range instead of the mohs 7 for crazy lace. It can have vugs of both quartz crystals and calcite crystals and calcite crystal pseudomorphs but still works up pretty nice. I believe it's from around Durango while the actual crazy lace agate comes from Chihuahua....Mel
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gemfeller
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Post by gemfeller on Sept 7, 2013 22:35:15 GMT -5
Thanks for your insights. The rough I bought by that name is definitely not travertine. I agree it's variable in hardness and contains a lot of calcite but it's produced some of the nicest and most colorful agate cabs I've cut. The yield is quite low but when you find a good one it's worth the effort. Apologies for the bad image quality: old camera, old image.
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gemfeller
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Post by gemfeller on Sept 8, 2013 18:11:25 GMT -5
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Sept 8, 2013 20:00:44 GMT -5
Yeah, that's the problem with trade names. What you've pictured is real crazy lace agate, not what I purchased as Rosetta Lace. We're definitely talking two different materials here *L*. The two materials only have a slight resemblance to each other and the stuff marketed a few years ago as Rosetta Lace or Rosetta Stone is fairly soft, not agate...Mel
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panamark
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Post by panamark on Sept 8, 2013 20:38:21 GMT -5
Great informative post Mel. Thanks. Interesting to see the dogtooth cut both ways. I always like the transverse better on these types.
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Post by helens on Sept 8, 2013 20:38:27 GMT -5
Wow. Had no idea that crazy lace had so many sub-varieties by locale!! Thanks:).
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Sept 9, 2013 11:43:27 GMT -5
For comparison, here's a picture of a slab of Rosetta Lace/Rosetta Stone I have in my type collection. The most common color patterns are as you can see, various tones of reds and whites with zig zags that are cacite psuedomorphs and some fortifications. The eyes are almost like cut across stalactites which makes sense as this is more a calcite material than it is an agate. If you look at it closely, it only bears a superficial resemblance to actual crazy lace agate which is much harder, and often full of sagenite, stalk aggregates and eyes...Mel
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gemfeller
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Post by gemfeller on Sept 9, 2013 15:05:26 GMT -5
Mel, that's exactly what most of my Rosetta Lace looks like. But the cab image I posted and the other slabs above are also Rosetta -- just some of the best. They came from the same lot as this slab (which is much better than most):
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Sept 9, 2013 16:27:49 GMT -5
Again, I guess you have to have them in hand to minutely examine them, but to me, your slab is very clearly actual Crazy Lace Agate of the red variety. I suspect whoever you got it from ether misidentified it or named it Rosetta Lace due to the similarities in color and pattern. Those sorts of tube and eye structures are not typical of the Rosetta Lace which has a much more jagged and angular pattern due to the calcite pseudomorph nature of the material. And then, there's the hardness. Rosetta is much softer. One of our folks here tried to tumble some one time with agates and jaspers and they got eaten up real bad due to the softness.....Mel
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gemfeller
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Post by gemfeller on Sept 9, 2013 19:23:53 GMT -5
Let's just agree to respectfully disagree on this for the moment. I have slabs from this same lot exactly like the one you posted and much worse, but I'd have to do too much digging to find them. When I run across them I'll try to remember to post an image.
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Post by Bluesky78987 on Sept 10, 2013 14:58:05 GMT -5
Beautiful show and tell, thank you! And thanks also for the additional info on the Rosetta. It's one of my favorite types of stones. Hard to find though.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2013 15:28:36 GMT -5
You guy's have me more confused then I was before on the difference between Rosetta Lace and old mexican crazy lace. I picked these two piece's up last fall at an estate sale, which one are these? Both waiting to become a sphere. Thx, Tim
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Sept 10, 2013 16:54:27 GMT -5
I'd call both of those Crazy Lace Agate of the Laguna lace variety. Laguna Lace is characterized by a fine line pattern and more color than the other lace varieties. That first example does have some of the pseudomorphs after dogtooth calcite going on but true dogtooth lace has big sort of botryidal bubbles over the pseudomorphs giving it the alternate trade name "bubble lace". This info does not originate with me by the way, but comes from Brad Cross's wonderful book, The Agates of Northern Mexico.....Mel
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gemfeller
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Post by gemfeller on Sept 10, 2013 18:38:34 GMT -5
I haven't read Cross's book. But here we are in the surrealistic world of trade names. Frankly I think it should all just be named Crazylace Agate and be done with it. Out of curiosity I did a Google search for Rosetta Lace Agate Images. Apart from the stuff that obviously shouldn't be there, I found quite a few images that look like those I've already posted, especially one given the name Red Rodeo Crazy Lace Agate/Rosetta Stone: But then I thought I remembered Rosetta Lace rough being sold by Kingsly-North. Instead I found this (poor) image advertising Laguna Lace Agate: Frankly, it differs a lot from the Laguna Lace Agate I've cut but this advertising image resembles a lot of the Rosetta I've posted. I dug through the spider webs today to see if I could find my stash of Rosetta purchased 20 years ago or so. This first one is fairly typical of the rough: I'll let some of the others speak for themselves. Those beautiful patterns are usually just specimens because they usually surround soft areas of calcite that undercut. The colors are predominantly brick red, orange, white and some gray. Lacy areas mingle with spots of fortification. Some pieces are rhyolite, others are well-agatized. It's not like any of the old-time red lace agate I used to buy but I'm not going to get into a argument about it. Someone sold a lot of this stuff as Rosetta Lace Agate.
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Sept 10, 2013 18:51:38 GMT -5
Rick, that first pic set definitely looks like Rosetta. As I've said, the hardness is the real defining characteristic as Rosetta is not agate even though some sell it as such, I'm with you, crazy lace should be enough but some folks love to use trade names to describe different varieties with traits in common. Crazy lace does include a lot of calcite and calcite pseudomorphs because the agate veins themselves occur as fillings in limestone deposits. Good Laguna Lace like in your fourth pic, is getting scarce and expensive ....Mel
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gemfeller
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Post by gemfeller on Sept 10, 2013 22:29:30 GMT -5
OK Mel just for fun, want to take a shot at the trade name this lace was sold under? It was purchased a year ago and both slabs are from the same piece of rough. Rick
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Sept 11, 2013 15:36:30 GMT -5
*L* Don't know what you bought it as and don't have any examples quite like it. I've got stuff kind of like that that was just sold to me as "black lace". I've got one I cut as a specimen and some slabs and cabs I've cut but mine is strictly black, white, and gray bands. No reds or purplish like in yours. Mine looks very much like just the left side of your first example. I've also got several lace examples that don't fit any of Brad Cross's categories so I guess we can just say crazy lace is a very variable material *S*. I've eve got a pale pinkish/purplish example sold to me as "purple Lace" but not "Royal Purple Aztec Lace". So what were your examples called?......Mel
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