10thumbs
spending too much on rocks
I want to be reincarnated as a dog.
Member since March 2009
Posts: 480
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Post by 10thumbs on Mar 16, 2009 15:33:43 GMT -5
My son got a cheap, plastic rock tumbler for Christmas 2009. Three months later I have three Lortone tumbler barrels spinning in the basement at all times. Some of the rocks are really interesting but have an odd pit or defect. I've tried using some diamond and silicon carbide tools in my Dremel but it takes for ever.
I started looking at some of the bench tools. Depending on who you ask you need a saw, a grinder, and a flat lap. I started looking around and get some serious sticker shock. Is it possible to get into this hobby without a home equity line of credit? What is the difference between the 7" wet saw at Home Depot ($80) and wet saws from 6" wet saw from Barranga ($400)? What is the difference between a 6" bench grinder (w/SiCO wheels and a wet sponge nearby) at Sears ($60) and the Rock Rascal bench grinder ($290)? I don't see any reasonable facsimile for a flat lap.
As much as I'm interested in this hobby if the entry price is $1000 I'll take up bird watching. Lame and cold in the winter but still free.
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Post by krazydiamond on Mar 16, 2009 16:16:39 GMT -5
this is not the cheapest hobby, but there are a lot more expensive ones, too. as far as the difference between the "economical tools" and the more expensive versions, you've already answered your own question by the fact that you replaced the "cheap plastic tumbler" with three Lortones.
quite a few folks, however will sing the praises of the 7" workforce saw....might be a good start there, then, if you're in no hurry for some of the other equipment, keep an eye on Ebay, some of the local vendors in here and your local flea markets and garage sales. welcome to our shared addiction!
KD
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Post by parfive on Mar 16, 2009 16:20:09 GMT -5
Welcome to the board, 10thumbs.
The 7” tile saw at Home Depot is the perfect tool for cleaning up tumbling rough. Those odd pits or defects will grind out in seconds with the edge of the blade. Real bad ones – just cut the rock right in half through the defect.
I happened to be in a Home Depot today. The original WorkForce THD550, which is now gray (originally yellow) is $89. The best 89 bucks you’ll spend in this hobby.
This Home Depot still had seven gray ones in stock, and two yellow shelf models. Others on the board have reported this model as being discontinued.
Rich
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rallyrocks
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since November 2005
Posts: 1,507
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Post by rallyrocks on Mar 16, 2009 16:34:28 GMT -5
As others have mentioned, the WF saw is a good economical second step, but I'd steer you away from the bench grinder for lapidary use, not only is cheap tool grade Silicon Carbide not very efficient at cutting any stones much harder than obsidian, the wet sponge is not going to do the job of suppressing silica dust, cooling the workpiece and cooling the cutting wheel.
When you get the bug for cabbing, plan to make the investment in a properly irrigated, purpose-built rig.
The used market frequently has affordable deals, take some time and look at estate sales and stuff, depending on condition, old perfectly workable lapidary grinder rigs run between 10-30% of the list price for their brand new, off-the-shelf counterparts.
Also, as other threads are pointing out- if there is a club in your area- get with them and see if they have equipment you can get on by joining and maybe paying a small shop rate.
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10thumbs
spending too much on rocks
I want to be reincarnated as a dog.
Member since March 2009
Posts: 480
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Post by 10thumbs on Mar 16, 2009 16:43:44 GMT -5
I appreciate the advise on the second hand stuff. I see too many ripoffs on Ebay. 99% of what is posted on ebay is available cheaper from online retailers. Also, like many of my gender I am a highly goal-oriented shopper. I know exactly what I'm buying before I leave my house. The thought of trolling flea markets for equipment is just a foreign concept to me. I will print off some pictures of lapidary equipment for my mother-in-law. She doesn't miss too many garage sales. I can't stand garage sales because its a law here in Michigan that you have to offer a dime for any garage sale item regardless of what is on the sticker. "Is the bike for sale? Will you take a dime for it?" I hate that!
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10thumbs
spending too much on rocks
I want to be reincarnated as a dog.
Member since March 2009
Posts: 480
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Post by 10thumbs on Mar 16, 2009 16:53:51 GMT -5
Also, as other threads are pointing out- if there is a club in your area- get with them and see if they have equipment you can get on by joining and maybe paying a small shop rate. There are a couple of clubs around here like that but their kung-fu is very strong. I'd have to come up with the courage to walk into the shop with my bits of tumbler scraps with all these people cranking out store-quality jewelry. On a side note, Southern Lower Michigan is known for salt and clay. All the good Michigan minerals are 6-12 hours north. So collecting rocks myself is not going to happen. I hate the thought of buying rough off of Ebay or somewhere because you can hide so much in a picture. I have a bunch or rocks that look great on one side, but muddy crap on the other. I've visited two Rock shows but it seems none of vendors bring rough to the shows. They're mostly moving finished works and trying to compete with the vendors with loads of cheap Chinese cabs for sale. So if I can't easily collect it, where do you get stuff? I've bought most of my rocks from The Rock Shed so far.
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Post by parfive on Mar 16, 2009 17:18:01 GMT -5
Don’t be bashful, 10 thumbs. The vast majority of rock nuts would be happy to help you out with your tumbler scraps, and probably help you out with stuff from their own pile. We’re not called rock nuts for nuthin’, you know. As long as you’re not Bernie Madoff walking into the Palm Beach Rock Club, you’re pretty safe. Rich
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Post by akansan on Mar 16, 2009 17:27:34 GMT -5
I'm going to guess from your name that you're not going to be one to build your own equipment? There are a couple threads in the Homemade Equipment forum on how to build a flat lap, otherwise. Rocks...there's a couple vendors on here that have terrific rough for tumbling available. Keep an eye out on the buy, sell, & swap board for those. The Rock Shed is a very reputable dealer, otherwise - many of us regularly do business there. Also, there are a couple dealers on ebay that routinely have great material. We tend to talk around here about who we buy from, so take a look at the vendors board if you're looking for a specific seller. Or just post a question. And yeah - most rocknuts are eager to talk about their hobby to other people who will actually listen...which is generally only other rocknuts.
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Post by Tweetiepy on Mar 16, 2009 17:42:53 GMT -5
I'll echo going to a club & starting there - remember everyone started somewhere at or near the bottom and worked their way up.
I found a club near where I live and joined. When I dropped my $20 in the jar, someone showed me right away how to start cabbing at the silicone carbide grinder and 1 hour later, I had my very first cab - not the nicest, but it sure was good and I had made it
Don't go the bench grinder route - I did that and it's much harder to modify one for wet grinding and too much effort for me. I ended up getting a Lortone LU6X-130 (it's their combination grinder & trim saw) works great for a start & then I upgraded to all diamond belts - no looking back now! I buy slabs when I can as I have no way of cutting the rocks.
Welcome to this addiction
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Post by stardiamond on Mar 16, 2009 18:36:26 GMT -5
This is not a cheap hobby. Compared to some others it isn't so bad; golf or skiing for example. A club is probably the cheapest way to go. How I got started: My wife found someone to slab a rock and they showed her how to cab. He then showed me and I ended up buying some of his used to lapidary equipment. A do it yourself trim saw for $50, a belt sander for $50 and a my Star Diamond grinder with two worn wheels for $250. I was able to start cabbing but didn't like the results and bought a Genie with the trim saw attachment. Later I put 5 diamond wheels on the Star Diamond. Last year I bought a new 16" Covington slab saw which I still haven't uncrated.
I spend less now on Lapidary then I did practicing golf, not even playing golf and I don't have to leave home to pursue my hobby.
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polished
has rocks in the head
Member since February 2006
Posts: 567
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Post by polished on Mar 16, 2009 19:31:37 GMT -5
Take it from a mere 3-year veteran, it's not a cheap hobby once you get addicted, but it doesn't have to break the bank, either. DO take your time and investigate the proper tools, and DO visit a rock club, talk to other rock hounders, hang out here for fantastic advice. Fellow rock people are the nicest, most generous and willing to help out a newbie. But DON'T try to go the cheap route. I've done that a few times and always paid the price. The Workforce from Home Depot is a fantastic investment. It doesn't cut much large or extremely hard, but if you purchase slabs from someone, the workforce is your baby for cutting those slabs into shapes, then your tumblers will turn them into amazing free form cabs. The first year, I went from the little tumblers to two large units - then had to get the workforce - after that I went with a great drill press and diamond bits - next up the flat lap (hit a road bump there but I'm working on getting that fixed). Take your time, save your pennies, and don't expect to be able to do it all right outta the gate, and you'll find it's a great addiction. I mean hobby
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deedolce
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2006
Posts: 1,828
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Post by deedolce on Mar 16, 2009 20:17:19 GMT -5
Also, watch for the traveling rock boxes here...it travels to a bunch of RTH'rs, and you exchange. if you've been purchasing some from the rock shed, maybe you have some you can put in for others in there...and honestly, that darned box got soooo hard to close up and pack I'm sure none of us will begrudge someone starting out to take a bit more out of it than you put in! Your cost is to ship the flat rate box onto the next person, about $10-$12.
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Post by rockmanken on Mar 16, 2009 22:03:24 GMT -5
DO NOT USE A REGULAR BENCH GRINDER. They have wheels that are NOT vitrified(meaning for wet use). If you use them and they get wet, the next time you use it, it may shatter because the water will settle to the bottom of the wheel and gravity will make it fly apart when you turn it on. Good lapiday equiptment is expensive. The Ameritool(which I have) and the Hi-Tech flat laps are the best for the money. Run about $400-$450. Hi-Tech also makes a slant top unit that sits 45 degrees. Don't know how good it is as I have never used it. The Work Force or the Q from Lowe's are both great saws. I personally like the Q better because of the water system. But both are about $90 and both are good. They will cut rocks up to 1 1/4" high. Go to the rock club. Most have equiptment you can use to learn on and they will be more than happy to help you. Most members love to show off, so they will help you. They will also GIVE you lots of rocks, normally. (not all) Ken
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Post by Tony W on Mar 16, 2009 22:18:49 GMT -5
If you love money then don't get in any further! If you love value for your money then jump right in. YOu will spend all the money you can scrape together doing rocks but you will get good value for all you spend if you do your homework. But decide now if you are all in or not because half ass just doesn't get it in lapidary pursuits Any cheap alternative short cut is just wasted time. Ask here before you spend and you'll get the real skinny. And the best real skinny, and cheapest start up tool, is the Workforce saw. T
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dscratch
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since June 2008
Posts: 214
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Post by dscratch on Mar 16, 2009 22:32:21 GMT -5
I'm poor and have very little money but was able to get started on a budget. My first find was a Cabmate machine. I actually traded my computer knowledge for it. I spent a few hours repairing a computer and for my work received the cabmate machine. I made lots of cabs with it. I also helped build a website and traded some slabs. I found a 6" saw at a yard sale for $40 and a used arbor for $35. As others have said, it's an expensive hobby, but I was able to make it happen with a little trading and a small budget. I don't think I'll ever have the money to get me a genie, but the dreaming continues.
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10thumbs
spending too much on rocks
I want to be reincarnated as a dog.
Member since March 2009
Posts: 480
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Post by 10thumbs on Mar 17, 2009 8:18:58 GMT -5
Don’t be bashful, 10 thumbs. The vast majority of rock nuts would be happy to help you out with your tumbler scraps, and probably help you out with stuff from their own pile. We’re not called rock nuts for nuthin’, you know. I'm solidly middle class however most of the disposable income goes to youth hockey, youth football, tap, ballet, gymnastics, girl- boy-cub scouts and something called IKEA that shows up on my credit card bill every month. I really have no hobbies anymore. At least none that don't involve a TV remote. So lapidary is something I can do after everyone goes to bed. So far it mostly involves me longingly watching my tumblers spin. So anyway I would feel some guilt going on the lapidary equivalent of food stamps. My question was really more about where you get decent rough than how to afford it. I just see Ebay as an opportunity for the unscrupulous to dump their junkite. I'm planning to attend the "37th Annual Metro Rock Swap" in Taylor, MI at the end of the month. Hopefully people bring their surplus rough to these things since the first two shows I visited were a bust for rough material.
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NorthShore-Rocks
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since December 2008
Posts: 1,004
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Post by NorthShore-Rocks on Mar 17, 2009 8:49:27 GMT -5
I'm in your boat thumbs. Almost 100% of disposable income is invested back into my young ladies! Figure skating, piano, softball & soccer...oh my. That's not going to change and I'll just have to be patient in aquiring tools of the trade.
As far as rough goes...I wouldn't look any further than right here for value, quality, and quantity, unless you have a specific rock tumble in mind. Even then, I would check around here first!
Steve
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Post by akansan on Mar 17, 2009 9:03:48 GMT -5
There are quite a few sellers on ebay that don't sell junk. RocksJ2B2, ChimingRock, woodsicle, gems24, & rockandshoal are all sellers that I would trust.
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Post by johnjsgems on Mar 17, 2009 9:19:02 GMT -5
You can search shows on Rock & Gem Magazine website. You are right about rock shows being light on rock. As a show dealer I only take rock to 2 or 3 shows a year. Those are all outdoor shows where space is cheaper. Some of the 20-25 indoor shows we do are up to $200 per 8' table. You have to sell a lot of rock to break even at that rate. Rock is not cheap to transport either. If you can find outdoor "tailgate" shows you will find more rocks as more part time dealers/hobbyists participate in those. Some clubs have small tailgates for their members to sell/swap. That brings us back to local clubs again. You can find out from them about rock sources. I believe there is a huge agate show in MN every Summer.
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NorthShore-Rocks
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since December 2008
Posts: 1,004
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Post by NorthShore-Rocks on Mar 17, 2009 9:29:58 GMT -5
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