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Post by Michael John on Mar 28, 2009 13:46:28 GMT -5
When Steve and I went hounding, we collected quite a bit of Manganese ore. What we were after was Psilomelane, but I didn't think we found any. Last night, looking at the ore, that eerie feeling of stupidity washed over me ... I think these chunks are mostly comprised of Psilomelane.
* How can I positively identify it as Psilomelane?
* The chunks are conspicuously heavy for their size. Does this mean that the material will probably be hard to cut and rough on saw blades? I read that Psilomelane is 5-6 Mohs, so it's a bit baffling that the chunks are so heavy.
* I've seen very pretty cabs made from Psilomelane. Is it fairly commonly used for making cabs? Is it also commonly tumbled?
Any and all help / info / input will be highly appreciated.
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Post by frane on Mar 28, 2009 19:01:36 GMT -5
I wish I could help you but I have never tried to polish it. It is a black hematite right? I think it is supposed to be about a 5-6 MOH so it should do really well for cabbing but I would think it will be a messy one. Sorry I couldn't help. Fran
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Post by Michael John on Mar 28, 2009 19:32:00 GMT -5
No, it's not Hematite. Hematite is mostly Iron, Psilomelane is mostly Manganese. Yes, I think it's probably a bit messy to work, since it's mostly black and a bit softer than the silicates that folks around here typically work. Reading a bit more about it, I'm more convinced that what I have is Psilomelane. The good explaination on this page seems to exactly describe what I have. Still, anyone's input would be greatly appreciated.
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agatemaggot
Cave Dweller
Member since August 2006
Posts: 2,195
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Post by agatemaggot on Mar 28, 2009 20:38:32 GMT -5
I can't be of help, but I would like to find out, is the mine in Compton Virginia still open ? The link you posted has what looks like the material from Mexico shown. The pieces I have seen on E-bay are going for an arm and a leg !
Harley
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Post by Michael John on Mar 29, 2009 6:12:57 GMT -5
I have no idea about a mine in Virginia. I got this stuff from a small manganese mine that was first worked during WW1, then was dormant until it was worked again during WW2, then some guys briefly tried to run it back in the 1950s (silly, since there's not enough material there to make it worth the trouble). So, it's been abandoned for over 50 years, and it's so remote that the only people who ever would go there are the people who are making the rounds to all of the old, abandoned mines in and around Death Valley. Even then, this one is so remote that most of those folks probably skip it. There's hardly anything of historical mining value to see there anyway.
I'm aware of the market value of lapidary quality Psilomelane. That's why Steve and I were looking for it LOL. From very old mining reports I found about the mine, the material there was of very high quality, which is why they went through the trouble of mining such a relatively small occurence. However, I haven't found any info saying that anyone has used it for lapidary purposes.
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Post by johnjsgems on Mar 29, 2009 9:03:26 GMT -5
It will be unusually heavy since it is a metallic mineral. It could gum up your blades and turn your oil colors. "igh quality" for mining and high quality for lapidary can be two different things. For lapidary you want botroidal (probably spelled wrong). The bumps give swirl patterns. Without the swirls it is just gray when polished. Manganese oxidizes black and the black is usually messy (like black rust).
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Post by Michael John on Mar 29, 2009 14:48:28 GMT -5
John, thank you! That's very helpful information!
I figured that "high quality" for ore mining and for lapidary were completely different. For good ore, the key is the percentage of manganese in the psilomelane, but I wasn't sure about what determined whether it was possibly good for lapidary. Your explaination of the botryoidal factor makes perfect sense, since I've seen it referred-to as "black malachite".
In my second post in this thread, I put a link to a page which pretty clearly describes Psilomelane. The part of the physical description on that page that got my attention was:
Habit: Botryoidal - "Grape-like" rounded forms (e.g.. malachite). Habit: Mammillary - Larger "breast-like" rounded forms resembling botryoidal (e.g. malachite).
This IS what the stuff I have looks like! I took it from small outcrops, and there are small, untouched outcrops all over the place out there! The biggest piece I have is over a foot in each dimension, and easily weighs well over 50 pounds ... probably closer to 100. I had to carry it up a steep hill about 100 yards, but I was determined to get it ... it's a real beauty! I think Steve thought I was nuts for carrying it up there LOL.
Shame that it's messy stuff. Maybe that's part of why it's so expensive. Small enough pieces to be cut on a WF would be good!
I'm off to hound "Agate Road" now, but I'll take pics of the material that Steve and I collected tomorrow and post them here. If you like what you see, and you don't mind the mess, I'd be happy to send you some to slice and cab, since you obviously have knowledge and experience with the material.
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Post by johnjsgems on Mar 30, 2009 18:11:21 GMT -5
Sounds like you stumbled on the Motherlode. My whole experience with it is at Wiley Wells where small pieces are pretty plentiful. The accessible stuff is mostly thin veins. It was mined extensively at one time. The last time I was there we were going up the hill to where a small deposit is and parked on the road shoulder (the whole area is restricted to dirt roads and the shoulder). Where we parked happened to also be the parking area to one of the closed road wilderness areas where we were the day before. A guy parked behind us and we talked about the wilderness area. I mentioned we were after psilomelane. He said "you mean this stuff?" and pulled his shirt tail up to show off a psilomelane belt buckle about 3" x 4" and like you said it looked like gray malachite.
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NorthShore-Rocks
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since December 2008
Posts: 1,004
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Post by NorthShore-Rocks on Mar 30, 2009 19:27:49 GMT -5
MJ...I looked thru the pics and came up with these. It looks like I only took a couple or so of the bubbly stuff that weighed a million pounds LOL! ;D I tell ya what... if that is the stuff, there's a bunch more!!! This stuff looks like it was chowing on the maganese. How did agate road go?
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Post by Michael John on Mar 30, 2009 20:20:58 GMT -5
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Post by akansan on Mar 30, 2009 20:46:55 GMT -5
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Post by johnjsgems on Mar 30, 2009 21:35:10 GMT -5
The rusty crystals may be barite replacement or iron stained barite. Barite and manganese occur together in Wiley well area. In fact the lesser mines were not profitable because the manganese had too much barite and the barite had too much manganese. That's some nice stuff you found.
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Post by Hard Rock Cafe on Mar 30, 2009 21:50:18 GMT -5
Michael John, I think you should start a business as an old mine tour guide for rockhounds.
I hope that is lapidary quality psilomelane. You really would have hit the motherload if it is!
Chuck
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Post by Michael John on Mar 31, 2009 10:55:00 GMT -5
Yeah, Chuck, I can buy an old school bus and play like I'm one of Charles Manson's disciples that got away. Far-out, groovy psycho hounding! Pass the Kool-Aid! I'd better start growing my hair.
FYI ... Charles Manson and his gang were hiding-out and got busted about 20 miles from where those pics were taken.
The current state of affairs regarding the old mines in and around Death Valley:
The granola-eating, green tea-drinking California politicians are completely mishandling the entire situation. There are LOTS of abandoned BUT STILL OPEN mines all over the place. Do a quick search on YouTube, and you can see a lot of videos of idiots who go into these mines for no reason other than thrill-seeking and "bragging rights" ... yup, they think they're COOL for doing it. I even saw one video where I guy brought his KIDS into one of the mines! Who's fault is it? The California politicians'.
The sandal-wearing, green car-driving California law-makers have decided that permanently sealing the mines isn't a priority. Instead, they're appropriating money to the destruction of historically-significant mining ruins, which aren't hurting anyone. Apparently, they see them as "a mess". They have a historian come out to take final pictures and remove anything they want to keep for the museum, then they bulldoze and haul it all away ... well, as much as they FEEL like hauling away. Yup, so much for the physical history of the very reason that people came to California. I guess if our kids wanna experience that, they'll have to go play in a mine shaft.
FYI ... Owlhole Springs has been a victim of this "clean-up". From what I've seen in old pictures, a LOT has been removed. Instead of experiencing an historic mining facility, visitors are now "treated" to the ugly mess that the "clean-up" crew left behind. It appears that they just demolished everything that would fairly easily bust-up, and left whatever would be too difficult/costly to bother-with. They VERY obviously didn't take any care or consideration to the condition in which they left the place. There are still truck and machinery parts littering the ground of the entire area ... and THIS was a clean-up? What you now see there looks like a street gang with a stolen bulldozer vandalized the place until they got bored. It's ironic that jack asses now inhabit the place that jack asses destroyed.
* Michael climbs-down from his Boraxo soap box *
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Post by johnjsgems on Mar 31, 2009 11:16:30 GMT -5
MJ, how do you really feel about it though? You must have been near the Ballarat marble area. We used to collect there and the Aquarious Onyx mine every year during the Trona show while the crowds were in the lake collecting.
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agatemaggot
Cave Dweller
Member since August 2006
Posts: 2,195
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Post by agatemaggot on Mar 31, 2009 11:43:38 GMT -5
The Whale kissin-tree huggin %&**#@$$ have the money to blow destroying history but are right in the front of the line with their hands out lookin for some bail-out money to run the state govt. I hear !
I'll get down, this box is gettin rather crowded up here !
Harley
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NorthShore-Rocks
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since December 2008
Posts: 1,004
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Post by NorthShore-Rocks on Mar 31, 2009 11:55:23 GMT -5
And did I just read those same politicians passed the S22 bill under a different name? How's that going to affect everyone out west...for that matter everywhere?
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Post by Michael John on Mar 31, 2009 20:26:02 GMT -5
WTF??? That son of a bitch Adolph Obama signed it yesterday! After S22 was defeated, they quickly wrapped it up with a bunch of other pork and pushed it through!!! Oh well ... guess I'm gonna be an outlaw now.
"What are you in for?"
"Murder."
"What are you in for?"
"Dealing heroin."
"Mike, what are you in for?"
"Picking up rocks."
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rallyrocks
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since November 2005
Posts: 1,507
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Post by rallyrocks on Apr 1, 2009 13:04:35 GMT -5
Clearly this thread has veered WAY off topic, and while I'm as dissapointed as anyone that those bastards pushed S22 through....
I want to see that stuff sliced up MJ! if it is what we all now think it is, I WANNA SEE IT!!!
(after all this is supposed to be the slabs board, -so far this thread only has specimens and politics)
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Post by Michael John on Apr 1, 2009 13:54:57 GMT -5
Even if I had a saw blade, these chunks are too big for a WF.
The politics here have a LOT to do with this thread. If memory serves me correctly, when I saw the map of the area in California which is included in that legislation, it will be illegal for me to collect from that location anymore. Not that it'll stop me, but it's still relevant.
Besides ... it's MY thread! LOL
Beautify America ... kill a tree hugger ... just make sure you dispose of it properly.
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