chassroc
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Post by chassroc on Oct 11, 2011 8:18:51 GMT -5
We had a real tea party in Boston yesterday with lots of marchers taking to the streets. These people are protesting Corporate America and looking for jobs. Nice to see someone going after the fat cats who have profited over their misfortune.
In the Northeast it will be tough to sustain over the Winter...time will tell
charlie
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chassroc
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Post by chassroc on Oct 11, 2011 8:34:14 GMT -5
Cops moved in last night and arrested a bunch of protestors who would not move from the Greenway back to Dewey Square...
"Police had earlier warned the about 1,000 protesters to leave the Greenway area, where they had settled hours before, and relocate to Dewey Square or a small, adjacent strip of the Greenway. "
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Post by Toad on Oct 11, 2011 10:40:51 GMT -5
Real? Ha!
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Post by Toad on Oct 11, 2011 10:57:21 GMT -5
What makes it more real? Breaking the law or getting arrested?
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chassroc
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Post by chassroc on Oct 11, 2011 12:11:46 GMT -5
What makes it more real? Breaking the law or getting arrested? Good question...Neither of these would make it more or less real to me.
What does make it real is that I see a cross section of frustrated people from many walks of life protesting with heartfelt sentiment about the economy, the lack of job opportunities, and the inequality in the economy.
What makes it real is that there are people of all ages protesting around the country. Protesters are fighting against greed and inequality in the economy. Foreclosed on Americans fighting for their dignity and standard of living. Students protesting about tuition hikes. Union leaders fighting for jobs and health care. Middle class and poor Americans wondering what will become of them and their families. Older people worried about their retirement and legacy. Graduates seeking an opportunity to work and pay back the massive loans thay have taken.We see the protests in Texas, Washington, Florida, Pennsylvania, New Yor, Nevada, California, Massachusetts, Ohio, and more.
They are not politically motivated; they want action now and they want the Government to do the job they were elected for. They don't shill for Democrats or republicans or Liberals or Conservatives; Their interest is to make things better, not to wait four more years or four more days
charlie
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grayfingers
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Post by grayfingers on Oct 11, 2011 12:25:45 GMT -5
Charlie, you make it all sound quite noble. However I respectfully submit another view. From the digging I have been doing I see a different picture. While I support the right of free assembly and protest, and there is corruption on Wall Street this "movement" is laughable in the way this is being portrayed as "The American Spring". It is just another case of the far left whipping up a batch of class warfare to try to push their socialist agenda. I read an article in which of the organizers of Occupy Wall Street said the purpose is to bring “revolutionary change to the United States,” he explained that various working groups bring proposals to the “general assembly,” which they originally intended to call the “Politburo,” but no one could figure out how to spell it. The general assembly then decides which proposals are achievable and beneficial to the people. (Isn’t this where Animal Farm started to run off the rails?) Surprise, surprise, The “grass-roots efforts” of Occupy Wall Street weren’t so “grass-roots,” after all; the organizers have been working with the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) and SEIU from the very beginning. MoveOn.org is also involved. So much for the desperate, pathetic attempts by the media to compare these clueless people to The Tea Party, huh? Oh well, they’re more in philosophical alignment with the Bolshevik Revolution, anyway. The people in Occupy Wall Street don't have clear reasons or goals. The New York Times quoted a pep talk a woman gave to a new protester. “It doesn’t matter what you’re protesting,” she said. “Just protest.” A great clip at the following link with interviews of the protesters that pretty well sums it up. Bill nation.foxnews.com/occupy-wall-street/2011/10/01/watters-world-investiagtes-whos-really-behind-wall-st-protest
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Post by jakesrocks on Oct 11, 2011 13:24:05 GMT -5
Did you happen to see the interview that was done on live camera with a whole bunch of the sign carrying protesters ? Not a one of them could speak a word of English, or read a word on their signs. When the news crew brought in a Spanish interpreter, the truth came out. These "protesters" had been hired by the big unions to carry signs. They didn't even know what they were protesting. Oh but then you probably didn't see that interview, now did you ? Only FOX news carried that one. The other "news agencies" had their orders to ignore the story.
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unclestu
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Post by unclestu on Oct 11, 2011 13:50:32 GMT -5
Yes unfortunately it is real. Foreclosed Americans looking for dignity. Are those that are looking for dignity the real estate flippers that have been foreclosed upon or are they the mac-mansion owners with the no documentation interest only ARM's with no down payment looking for dignity. Let me tell you something dignity is something you can never find and it can never be given to you. Dignity is acquired through your actions. Though dignity can not be found it most certainly can be lost. It is lost when you stand there with your hand out looking for a free ride. Stu
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Post by texaswoodie on Oct 11, 2011 14:20:34 GMT -5
Yep, them's real Americans alright. Defecating on police cars, having sex on the street, drugs abound, no baths, trash and filth strewn everywhere. what a wonderful group of real Americans.
Curt
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chassroc
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Post by chassroc on Oct 11, 2011 16:09:39 GMT -5
and that is why nothing gets done in this country...if Faux news and talk radio says it , you guys will absolutely march lockstep with the corporate whores that have created the mess we are in
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grayfingers
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Post by grayfingers on Oct 11, 2011 18:24:42 GMT -5
Charlie, Actually, you will get no argument from me concerning the abuses of the public trust that Wall Street, the too-big-to fail banks and the corporations that find a way to avoid paying taxes are guilty of.
What I have a problem with is the George Soros gang fanning the flames of the entitlement generation who believe that the government owes them a living. Anyone who has their eyes open can see that the socialism they are trying to foster is a sure recipe for disaster. Europe, long held up as the example to follow is heading into free fall a$$ over teakettle. Like it or not, it takes rich folks to provide jobs. We need to bring back the time when we were producers first, and consumers second. Both the left and the right have driven businesses overseas, but the left bears more of the blame. (Unions)
Bill
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Post by texaswoodie on Oct 11, 2011 18:38:49 GMT -5
When they come burn your house down Charlie because you have more than they do, let us know.
Curt
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Oct 11, 2011 20:57:49 GMT -5
Good for the cops, arresting those slacker scumbags. They're screwing over the businesses in front of which they stage their protests, fouling the cities with their wastes, causing millions of dollars of wasted time for the police and city clean up crews and the morons I've seen interviewed are too freaking stupid to even know what they're protesting and have no real message . Heck Obama and the democrats are the biggest supporters of and the biggest takers of payoffs from the very rich folks the guys in the street are complaining about. They should be mobbing the Whitehouse. Top that off with scumbag union organizers, paid protestors, commies and anarchists, and before long you Dems will be sorry you're hitching yourself to that wagon cause these folks ain't like the tea party folks who were much more disciplined and cleaned up after themselves. Most hard working Americans, especially those viewing this bulls**t firsthand, are not going to side with the protestors. As usual Charlie, you've lost all contact with reality.....Mel
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unclestu
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Post by unclestu on Oct 11, 2011 21:07:06 GMT -5
When did the democratic party turn from, "Ask not what your country can do for you but Ask what you can do for your country"into the bunch of free entitlement junkies they are now?
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grayfingers
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Post by grayfingers on Oct 12, 2011 7:30:16 GMT -5
When did the democratic party turn from, "Ask not what your country can do for you but Ask what you can do for your country"into the bunch of free entitlement junkies they are now? I think it was about the time that they adopted this standard: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." -Karl Marx
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chassroc
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Post by chassroc on Oct 12, 2011 11:24:31 GMT -5
Charlie, Actually, you will get no argument from me concerning the abuses of the public trust that Wall Street, the too-big-to fail banks and the corporations that find a way to avoid paying taxes are guilty of.
What I have a problem with is the George Soros gang fanning the flames of the entitlement generation who believe that the government owes them a living. Anyone who has their eyes open can see that the socialism they are trying to foster is a sure recipe for disaster. Europe, long held up as the example to follow is heading into free fall a$$ over teakettle. Like it or not, it takes rich folks to provide jobs. We need to bring back the time when we were producers first, and consumers second. Both the left and the right have driven businesses overseas, but the left bears more of the blame. (Unions]
Bill, Thanks for the reply. certainly some good points but I don't agree with everything.
You are writing your own assumptions into your statement about "the George Soros gang fanning the flames of the entitlement generation who believe that the government owes them a living". George Soros is a capitalist through and through and a rich one at that. He asks for no socialism. On the contrary, he recognizes a system that is tilted very far in his favor and recognizes that unless the system has better balance, we cannot restore this country's place in the world. He does not offer to give away any of his wealth. He does not ask anyone else to give back their wealth. He asks that we make the tax system more like it was in the glory days after WW2. He wants to restore this country to a future path that does not concentrate the bulk of wealth and resources into a smaller number of pockets. That is the path we have been on and it is a disaster. The wealthy have had a very good decade or two; it is mainly the uber wealthy have seen their fortunes increase over that period. This country cannot be restored to where it was after WW2 unless a critical mass of people have money to spend and consume. Otherwise we become more like a third world country.
I do not foster socialism, however, you have to admit the Chinese socialist model is making a mockery out of capitalism. Europe has plenty of issues, they also have Germany. The US model of Capitalism has been tarnished over the past few decades but especially in the past ten years or so.
Like it or not, it takes poor folks to make other folks rich. I would love for everyone to be rich, but that does not happen in this world.
The Chinese are producers first, consumers second, you want to move to China? Think you'd really be better off in a "Producers first, consumers second" economy
You can blame unions all you want but there is plenty of blame for everyone. Do you really think Detroit and other executives can blame the unions for their faulty policies? Executives grabbed all they could for themselves and gave some to the Unions to shut them up. They systematically ruined their own companies and the unions were complicit in destroying the companies. Bad policies on both sides
Nearly all the companies I've known or worked for have switched from retirement plans that had evolved into Ponzi schemes to Pay as you go plans; they suspend employer contributions (for the employees but not for the top executives) when times are bad, restore them when competitive forces require it. On the other hand, Police, Fire, Teachers, Municipal workers, state employees and Federal employees need to have their plans changed too. They have not yet evolved with the times and we are all paying the price. Charlie
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grayfingers
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Post by grayfingers on Oct 12, 2011 14:06:56 GMT -5
Charlie, good discussion. Thanks for the back and forth, I enjoy debate that makes one think. I do agree that both execs. and unions are complicit in dirty deeds... I think we agree on many core values, and share the same compassion for the 48% of our people that are living under the poverty threshold. We do differ somewhat on our opinions as to how it happened and how to fix it. Soros is indeed a capitalist, and a particularly unscrupulous one at that. However, the agenda he is sponsoring is (in my and many others opinion) decidedly socialist. That is what a progressive activist does. Here is a list of the organizations directly financed by Soros. www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2625790/postsI don't even know where to start in response to your argument that it is better to be consumers than producers. China's brand of capitalism is a corruption of the idea. I would indeed rather live in post war "producing" America than currently "producing" China. Our transition and the accompanying loss of jobs is a large part of what caused the crises we now have. If we want to see the American Dream survive, returning to being producers first is our only option. "Outsourcing" which was so much cheaper than paying union workers contributed greatly to the crumbling of the walls of our economy. The glory days after WW2 were sponsored by our production, which enabled consumption. And as for China, the Chinese socialist model is not working out so well for their people, and one could argue that their success is based on cheap goods produced by people that can barely survive on the wages they make, and our willingness to consume them. China is facing a bank crises of it's own. online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203633104576624560771031794.html?mod=googlenews_wsjBill
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grayfingers
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Post by grayfingers on Oct 13, 2011 15:10:39 GMT -5
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chassroc
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Post by chassroc on Oct 13, 2011 16:29:20 GMT -5
C'mon Bill...did you read the article? No facts, just innuendo that CONservatives critics CONtend the movement is a Tojan horse for a secret Soros agenda. It CONtends that there is an indirect link between Soros and Adbusters(without saying what it is); What jibberish, Geez, there is an indirect link between you and Soros, between every man, woman and child and Soros.
It says CONservative radio host Rush Limbaugh summed up the speculation when he told his listeners last week, "George Soros money is behind this."...no proof, just innuendo.
The article goes on to say that Adbusters has received not one penny from Soros.
Just like you and me and Curt and Mel and Rich and Don, We loath what the irresponsible private sector has done to the public sector of this country. "Soros in 2009 wrote in an editorial that the purchase of toxic bank assets would, "provide artificial life support for the banks at considerable expense to the taxpayer."
He urged the Obama administration to take bolder action, either by recapitalizing or nationalizing the banks and forcing them to lend at attractive rates. His advice went unheeded."
All true...The bailouts were a good idea, but the Federal government, seemingly out of fear that the actions would look like socialism, did not nationalize the banks, just bailed them out to save the USA from a depression and the results are there for everyone to see. Companies are swimming in cash but refuse to expand or invest in capitalism in america, banks refuse to make loans to american small business and home owners and too many people are out of work.
Charlie
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grayfingers
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Post by grayfingers on Oct 13, 2011 17:58:07 GMT -5
Charlie, Of course I read the article, do you really think Reuters would have run it if they didn't strongly suspect there is fire behind the smoke? I guess we will have to agree to disagree on Soros. You see him as one side of the coin and I see him as the other. He is sneaky, he funnels his cash through other organizations. The indirect link: "According to disclosure documents from 2007-2009, Soros’ Open Society gave grants of $3.5 million to the Tides Center, a San Francisco-based group that acts almost like a clearing house for other donors, directing their contributions to liberal non-profit groups. Among others the Tides Center has partnered with are the Ford Foundation and the Gates Foundation. Disclosure documents also show Tides, which declined comment, gave Adbusters grants of $185,000 from 2001-2010, including nearly $26,000 between 2007-2009." And as for Adbusters,: "Adbusters was founded by a European-born gentleman by the name of Kalle Lasn, who currently lives in Canada. Mr. Lasn has never lived in the United States. He HATES capitalism in all of its forms, and he especially hates American consumerism. In his book, “Culture Jam“, he audaciously claims that he wants to “wreck the world”." The above is from this link. nicedeb.wordpress.com/2011/10/13/adbusters-soros-and-the-confused-kids-of-ows/Nothing like a down home grass-roots movement eh? As I see it, these misguided young airheads are being exploited and their protest co-opted and molded into the radical agenda of the far left. Charlie, I don't count you in that group, I just think you have a predilection to see things from the liberal perspective just as I tend to the right. As we both have noted, we do agree on the problems but your "side" feels government should run the show while my "side" believes that to be a fatal mistake. Bailouts and deficit spending only kick the can down the road... and when it is time to pay the piper, the bill will be much greater. To be clear, I don't put all the blame on the left for the mess we are in, greed and corruption are found in each party, and the bailouts started under Bush. Again, our main point of contention seems to be which fork in the road will lead us back to firm ground. Bill
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