chassroc
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Post by chassroc on Mar 27, 2012 8:45:22 GMT -5
Looks like another leak, this time Gas, in the North Sea. Thankfully, for BP, this one is a Shell well. Thankfully, no deaths either.
It is being described as another poor cement job (sound familiar)
Even though it is a gas leak, there is a sheen on the surface around the well that is 6 miles long.
Sounds like another reason to use caution when granting licenses to energy companies to drill. Charlie
charlie
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bushmanbilly
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Post by bushmanbilly on Mar 27, 2012 9:30:51 GMT -5
Another public funded solar company just went bankrupt. Thankfully for Solindra, this one was Evergreen. 800 jobs died. Its being described as another poor management job. Sounds like another reason to use caution when granting licenses to solar energy companies to waste money. ;D
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chassroc
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Post by chassroc on Mar 27, 2012 11:18:17 GMT -5
As usual Billy , You are out in left field somewhere
Charlie
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Post by geoff on Mar 27, 2012 11:36:22 GMT -5
That's kinf of a ridiculous statement. The macondo blowout was the result of countless poor decisions, especially on BPs side. Haliburton should have stood their ground and not let BP cut so many corners. But as we've seen, haliburton is far from ethical.
To say that this gas leak in the North Sea is comprable to the macondo incedent is the same sensationalist nonscense the media and anti oil lobbyist use aginst the industry. All it does is shows a lack of comprehension, and the need to jump on whatever band wagon comes ones way.
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bushmanbilly
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Post by bushmanbilly on Mar 27, 2012 12:43:32 GMT -5
A spill is a spill Charlie. Whether its oil or taxpayer money. If a train derails and spills its cargo. Do you rant. Shut the trains down?
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Post by geoff on Mar 27, 2012 14:08:37 GMT -5
Better cut off the nat gas to his house, stop using propane.
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Mar 27, 2012 14:31:19 GMT -5
Charlie: Sh*t happens. There will always be accidents but until you and I and everyone else decides we want to freeze in our homes and ride bicycles everywhere, we still have to drill for oil and gas and transport it to where it is used. Just because there's a car wreck now and then I suppose you want to ban cars? Every activity man pursues results in some accidents. Farmers spill pesticides, as Billy says, trains and trucks crash and spill toxic stuff, nuke plants melt down, coal mines blow up now and then, wind farms slaughter birds by the thousands and roads and dams block migration patterns. You can't just sit and do nothing and stagnate because you're afraid of what might happen. You go ahead and do it in as safe as a manner as you can and if something bad happens, you accept the consequences and try to do better next time....Mel
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chassroc
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Post by chassroc on Mar 27, 2012 15:47:35 GMT -5
"Charlie: Sh*t happens. "
Exactly my point - A good reason to take caution, especially whyen the stakes are so high
charlie
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Mar 27, 2012 18:11:04 GMT -5
Charlie: Well, back tot he stone age if we follow your advice I guess *L* Luckily I like riding horseback anyway.....Mel
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Post by geoff on Mar 27, 2012 18:29:01 GMT -5
This is still irritating me. By comparing them, you're belittling the deaths of those eleven men on the deep water horizon rig. Two of those men worked for my company. Not to mention the fact that the environmental impact from this leak in the Elgin fields will be nowhere near that of the Macondo well, which was nowhere near that of the Exxon Valdez. If you want a high profile spill to compare the environmental impact to, go with the Montara spill in Australia. A little research goes a long way in keeping you from sounding like an MSM puppet.
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chassroc
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Post by chassroc on Mar 28, 2012 9:02:56 GMT -5
Be cool Jeff...I pointed out differences in the two incidents and asked that we use caution when granting licenses to energy companies. I did not now, nor have I ever asked that we stop drilling, just that we use proper safeguards and caution, big difference. I also pointed out a similarity, the poor cement job being cited as a cause for both incidents. I think those men and their families would be thanking me for not belittling their deaths and urging that we keep others safe from a similar fate
Mel - "Charlie: Well, back tot he stone age if we follow your advice I guess *L* Luckily I like riding horseback anyway.....Mel " It is very hard to follow your logic...Since when and just how is asking for caution , putting anyone back in the stone age?
Charlie
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Mar 28, 2012 9:51:00 GMT -5
OK Charlie, I'll try to explain my stand on this issue one more time. *L*
With any human endeavor there is a risk versus rewards equation. Having worked as an Ag Biologist for many years I viewed many first hand examples of this concept as I had to do pesticide accident investigations all the time and write environment impact reports. So, as an analogy to your pipeline arguments here's one from the AG industry:
Man needs food to live.
Man cannot grow enough food to feed his growing population without using pesticides to protect his crops. Pesticides are dangerous. ( I personally hate pesticides by the way) They kill wildlife, pollute the environment and poison and kill people when accidents or improper usage occur.
These accidents etc do occur with some regularity but we must accept the risks and just try to do it better as the other option is to not use pesticides and lots of folks will starve.
OK, same with petrochemical exploration and pipelines:
Man needs energy to move his ever increasing population and transport goods and services, heat his homes etc
Man must explore, drill, build and operate pipelines and refineries to satisfy these needs.
There is inherent risk in the aforementioned projects. People can die, environmental pollution can occur etc etc. No matter how much you study it and how safe you try to be, there will always be human error, accidents etc etc
Mankind needs these fuels more and more as population grows so, until we do not need them, man must move forward and accept that there will always be accidents and you just try and perform the activities better and safer.
The other option is to dither around, have our exploration, transportation and processing programs stagnate and not longer have the energy to move people and products around, heat our homes inexpensively etc.
Don't know how I can explain it any more clearly Charlie. It's like you can spend too much time asking for too much caution and too much perfection ( which ain't gonna happen) in safely with the net result being the pickle we're in right now. No new dams, no new refineries, few new powerplants, difficulty in getting new pipelines, difficulty in opening new areas for exploration, difficulties in permitting etc etc etc.
Perfection regarding safely issues with anything man does is too expensive to afford, too time consuming and impossible to achieve. Risk has to, in the end, be weighed against human needs. If folks spend too much time trying to achieve perfection, nothing gets done and it will not necessarily lead us "back to the stone age" which was intended as a tongue in cheek remark, but it will lead to the type of energy development retardation we're experiencing right now and to more dependence on energy ie. oil from foreign sources. As it is now, we over study everything, listen to the greenies protests and endlessly try to mitigate every element of risk with the net result being long term inactivity or snail slow activity where progress is need to support our needs. Which is precisely why Obama and others in the past have to keep going to folks like the Saudis to beg them to pump more of their oil to sell us......Mel
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chassroc
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Post by chassroc on Mar 28, 2012 10:28:58 GMT -5
Mel, Just what is your point? Are you trying to paint me as some right wing or is it left wing wingnut?
As an Engineer, I believe in using the most economic means in any project.
As a person, I believe that we need to be cautious when performing dangerous jobs, like drilling in the ocean or building pipelines across rivers and aquifers.
We all need energy, but we also need an environment that will not kill us. It is not so hard to have both.
You do not need to lecture me with explanations of perfection. I am not now, nor have I ever asked that people or companies be perfect. My point exactly is that things happen and accidents happen...let's be careful before we ruin peoples lives and environment
charlie
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Post by geoff on Mar 28, 2012 10:56:52 GMT -5
My name is Geoff.
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bushmanbilly
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Post by bushmanbilly on Mar 28, 2012 11:14:17 GMT -5
Great post Mel, well said.
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Post by jakesrocks on Mar 28, 2012 11:21:18 GMT -5
I have strong opinions on this subject, but will sit back, laugh and let you guys battle it out. Don
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Post by geoff on Mar 28, 2012 16:53:17 GMT -5
Coward!
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Mar 28, 2012 21:43:08 GMT -5
Chas ole buddy, I ain't trying to paint you as anything. Your initial post shows where you come from. My point is, you cannot call a halt to man's progress and fulfilling the needs of an ever growing population for the sole purpose an endless quest to prevent "any" kind of accident or "any" kind of environmental damage. You have to accept some risk in exchange for progress and human needs. To me, it's the sort of overly cautious and endless search for safety perfection you and the greenies spout, that has put our country in the position it's in now. We can no longer build the installations we need or do the exploration and development we need because of endless lines of folks like yourself yelling "Ooh but what if this happens, what if that minnow is wiped out, what if that well leaks etc. Why, we better study it for a few years and publish a few thousand pages of bullsh*t reports first." And then, by the time we do it, it's too late and we've already had to buy the stuff from some country where they don't have all these silly ideas about never taking any risks to achieve rewards. *L*.....Mel
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chassroc
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Post by chassroc on Mar 29, 2012 14:56:48 GMT -5
Here are the latest facts...Now the high pressure gas field in The North Sea has been leaking for 5 days. I guess I am being too rough on these companies to suggest caution is a good thing. This little slippage will cost Royal Dutch Shell, etal. billions of dollars. The gas cloud may still explode. Neighboring wells have had to be shut down. I guess I'm just a perfectionist to suggest when we are drilling under extreme conditions that caution is advised. Apparantly there were warning signs that were ingnored... The WSJ reported today,"In 2009, a report written by seven Total employees and submitted to the U.K. Geological Society, noted that as the Elgin and Franklin reservoirs became depleted, they became even more unstable.
Three earthquakes occurred on the Elgin boundary fault in 2007 and 2008, and there were signs that geological stresses resulting from huge pressure changes were deforming the rocks around the reservoir, the report said.
This meant "the threat of a well failure could become reality," it said.
In October 2011, a report from Jean-Louis Bergerot, a manager in Total's drilling division, acknowledged that managing high-pressure, high-temperature reservoirs was still very challenging and paradoxically getting more difficult as time passes.
"In fields such as Elgin/Franklin, wells are exposed to multiple threats resulting from the large amount of depletion," Mr. Bergerot wrote in a paper for the Society of Petroleum Engineers. As gas is pumped out of the reservoir, its pressure drops relative to the surrounding rock, unleashing powerful stresses."The whole article can be seen on this link online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303816504577311552753712074.html?grcc=88888Z0&mod=WSJ_hpp_sections_world
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Simon
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Post by Simon on Mar 30, 2012 15:49:27 GMT -5
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