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Post by jakesrocks on Jul 19, 2013 10:58:20 GMT -5
It will be well worth the two minutes it requires to read this. It is quite impressive.
You can be Republican, Democrat, Liberal, Conservative, Independent or Libertarian and I bet this will hit a nerve. Our country is in real trouble.
This gentleman is obviously quite smarter than the two senators he sent it to. All I can say is amen to everything he said. A very articulate letter sent to the two U.S. Senators from Washington State. ___________________________________
April 3, 2013
Senator Patty Murray Senator Maria Cantwell Washington, DC , 20510
Dear Senator:
I have tried to live by the rules my entire life. My father was a Command Sergeant Major, U.S. Army, who died of combat related stresses shortly after his retirement. It was he who instilled in me those virtues he felt important - honesty, duty, patriotism and obeying the laws of God and of our various governments. I have served my country, paid my taxes, worked hard, volunteered and donated my fair share of money, time and artifacts.
Today, as I approach my 79th birthday, I am heart-broken when I look at my country and my government. I shall only point out a very few things abysmally wrong which you can multiply by a thousand fold. I have calculated that all the money I have paid in income taxes my entire life cannot even keep the Senate barbershop open for one year! Only Heaven and a few tight-lipped actuarial types know what the Senate dining room costs the taxpayers. So please, enjoy your haircuts and meals on us.
Last year, the president spent an estimated 1.4 $billion on himself and his family. The vice president spends $millions on hotels. They have had 8 vacations so far this year! And our House of Representatives and Senate have become America 's answer to the Saudi royal family. You have become the "perfumed princes and princesses" of our country.
In the middle of the night, you voted in the Affordable Health Care Act, a.k.a. "Obama Care," a bill which no more than a handful of senators or representatives read more than several paragraphs, crammed it down our throats, and then promptly exempted yourselves from it substituting your own taxpayer-subsidized golden health care insurance.
You live exceedingly well, eat and drink as well as the "one percenters," consistently vote yourselves perks and pay raises while making 3.5 times the average U.S. individual income, and give up nothing while you (as well as the president and veep) ask us to sacrifice due to sequestration (for which, of course, you plan to blame the Republicans, anyway).
You understand very well the only two rules you need to know - (1) How to get elected, and (2) How to get re-elected. And you do this with the aid of an eagerly willing and partisan press, speeches permeated with a certain economy of truth, and by buying the votes of the greedy, the ill-informed and under-educated citizens (and non-citizens, too, many of whom do vote ) who are looking for a handout rather than a job. Your so-called "safety net" has become a hammock for the lazy. And, what is it now, about 49 or 50 million on food stamps - pretty much all Democrat voters - and the program is absolutely rife with fraud with absolutely no congressional oversight?
I would offer that you are not entirely to blame. What changed you is the seductive environment of power in which you have immersed yourselves. It is the nature of both houses of Congress which requires you to subordinate your virtue in order to get anything done until you have achieved a leadership role. To paraphrase President Reagan, it appears that the second oldest profession (politics), bears a remarkably strong resemblance to the oldest.
As the hirsute first Baron John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton (1834 - 1902), English historian and moralist, so aptly and accurately stated, "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men." I'm only guessing that this applies to the female sex as well. Tell me, is there a more corrupt entity in this country than Congress?
While we middle class people continue to struggle, our government becomes less and less transparent, more and more bureaucratic, and ever so much more dictatorial, using Czars and Secretaries to tell us (just to mention a very few) what kind of light bulbs we must purchase, how much soda or hamburgers we can eat, what cars we can drive, gasoline to use, and what health care we must buy. Countless thousands of pages of regulations strangle our businesses costing the consumer more and more every day.
As I face my final year, or so, with cancer, my president and my government tell me "You'll just have to take a pill," while you, Senator, your colleagues, the president, and other exulted government officials and their families will get the best possible health care on our tax dollars until you are called home by your Creator while also enjoying a retirement beyond my wildest dreams, which of course, you voted for yourselves and we pay for.
The chances of you reading this letter are practically zero as your staff will not pass it on, but with a little luck, a form letter response might be generated by them with an auto signature applied, hoping we will believe that you, our senator or representative, has heard us and actually cares. This letter will, however, go on line where many others will have the chance to read one person's opinion, rightly or wrongly, about this government, its administration and its senators and representatives.
I only hope that occasionally you might quietly thank the taxpayer for all the generous entitlements which you have voted yourselves, for which, by law, we must pay, unless, of course, it just goes on the $17 trillion national debt for which your children and ours, and your grandchildren and ours,ad infinitum, must eventually try to pick up the tab.
My final thoughts are that it must take a person who has either lost his or her soul, or conscience, or both, to seek re-election and continue to destroy this country I deeply love and put it so far in debt that we will never pay it off while your lot improves by the minute, because of your power. For you, Senator, will never stand up to the rascals in your House who constantly deceive the American people. And that, my dear Senator, is how power has corrupted you and the entire Congress. The only answer to clean up this cesspool is term limits. This, of course, will kill the goose that lays your golden eggs. And woe be to him (or her) who would dare to bring it up.
Sincerely,
Bill Schoonover 3096 Angela Lane Oak Harbor, WA 98277
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Post by helens on Jul 19, 2013 11:25:07 GMT -5
Mostly true, but the politicians justification for their outrageous pay is the CEO's pay... which can run up to a billion dollars a year, PLUS the perks like private jets, corporate yachts, and multiple corporate mansions in exotic vacation spots all over the world... all tax-exempt I might add, so not much different than us paying for it, since they get to deduct the full cost for these perks anyway. Not that Corporations need to deduct costs when some of them they pay 0% taxes now.
In some cases, our elected officials are already working for 1000x less than a CEO makes. Why should they take a paycut to put up with abuse from the media and citizens? That's the argument, you have a better counter argument?
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Post by helens on Jul 19, 2013 11:37:25 GMT -5
In the 50's the average CEO pay to their own workers pay has increased 1000 percent on average today.
From Bloomberg: "The ratio of CEO-to-worker pay has increased 1,000 percent since 1950, according to data from Bloomberg. Today Fortune 500 CEOs make 204 times regular workers on average, Bloomberg found. The ratio is up from 120-to-1 in 2000, 42-to-1 in 1980 and 20-to-1 in 1950.
“When CEOs switched from asking the question of ‘how much is enough’ to ‘how much can I get,’ investor capital and executive talent started scrapping like hyenas for every morsel,” Roger Martin, dean of the University of Toronto’s Rotman School of Management, told Bloomberg."
They then sock that money out of US tax reach in foreign accounts that take that money out of circulation in the economy. Meanwhile, the circulators in the economy, the US workers, are paid less and less and less, so these CEO and officers can keep increasing that ratio.
No one complains about that of course, it's the politicians making 1/10-1/1000 the salary's fault. Next you'll be arguing that soldiers get free food and board, so should work without a paycheck. After all, you seem to think it's OK that corporate workers should, since the officers who play golf most days deserve that pay for their hard work, AND deserve to pay no taxes, nevermind that even US soldiers have to pay taxes.
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Post by jakesrocks on Jul 19, 2013 12:05:37 GMT -5
Just what the hell does this subject have to do with corporate CEO's Helen. It's about Senators and other top government officials. Doesn't Public Servant mean anything to you extreme left wingers ? They're supposed to be our servants. Sent to serve the best interests of us, the tax payers who sent them there to serve. Instead they leach off of the tax payers. Their only interests are to fill their own pockets, and the pockets of their select few rich supporters. They set no limits on spending, only taking from the real workers in this country. They give handouts to those who won't work, and take a big dump on those who will, because it's those leaches who are getting all of the handouts who continue to vote them back in office.
I propose that we set political standards just like military standards. No retirement pay until after 20 years of service. No free health care for life, until after 20 years of service, (And military retired health care isn't completely free. We pay copay). No tax payer funded vacations for them and their families. Let them pay for vacations out of their own pocket, just like the tax payers do. And just like the military, the only exception to this would be permanent disability incured in the line of duty.
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Post by helens on Jul 19, 2013 12:11:00 GMT -5
Because the idea is that we are trying to attract intelligent people to run for office that would be able to find a JOB if they didn't get public office Jake.
If they are so stupid they couldn't get a JOB, we want them running our government? Or... maybe that's the problem... we WANT the stupidest people in society to run for office so we can complain about them.
Why don't you run for office and become a 'servant'? See how much you'll put up with with no perks.
I'm not defending them btw. I agree with you. But they have a valid argument.
Now if they'd pass a law capping the wage gap between the highest and lowest worker, then they would not complain about their 'low' relative salary and benefits in office. Today, the wages paid to the lowest corporate worker (Walmart minimum wage) means taxpayer subsidies of those workers in the form of food stamps and medicaid in some cases.
So long as corporations can pay less than a living wage, they will, so they can make more themselves, and make taxpayers pay the difference. Guess who the taxpayers are? Not the wealthy, who can dodge taxes to 0%.
What should be done Don?
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bushmanbilly
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2008
Posts: 4,719
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Post by bushmanbilly on Jul 19, 2013 12:20:42 GMT -5
Mostly true, but the politicians justification for their outrageous pay is the CEO's pay... which can run up to a billion dollars a year, PLUS the perks like private jets, corporate yachts, and multiple corporate mansions in exotic vacation spots all over the world... all tax-exempt I might add, so not much different than us paying for it, since they get to deduct the full cost for these perks anyway. Not that Corporations need to deduct costs when some of them they pay 0% taxes now. In some cases, our elected officials are already working for 1000x less than a CEO makes. Why should they take a paycut to put up with abuse from the media and citizens? That's the argument, you have a better counter argument? You libs forget one major point when comparing CEO's to the Gov. CEO's are not spending TAXPAYER money!!!!!!!!! Why should Gov. reps get payed as much as private sector CEO's? The CEO's are accountable for what they do. When they waste money their shareholders say WTF!!! But when the Gov. wastes money, they don't care who bitches. Because they have no stake in how that money came to being. They just spend and spend. They know that a few slick words and handouts will get them re-elected.
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Post by helens on Jul 19, 2013 12:23:04 GMT -5
Of course they are. They pay less taxes than taxpayers due to subsidies. Therefore they are spending taxpayer money. A tax DISCOUNT is the same as NOT paying taxes you know.
Shouting about it doesn't change the simple fact that Secretaries and Truck Drivers and Soldiers should not be subsidizing their way of life. Of course the politicians want some too.
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Post by jakesrocks on Jul 19, 2013 12:34:44 GMT -5
I agree with most of what you said Billy. However, in the case of GM, Chrysler and several other companies that the Obama admin bailed out, Those CEO's are spending tax payer money. They're spending bail out money which we taxpayers trusted our government to use wisely.
And Helen, those CEO's pay taxes based on the rates set by our own Government. Wouldn't you give yourself a big tax break if this Admin said you could ? Of course you would, and you'd smile all the way to the bank.
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Post by rockpickerforever on Jul 19, 2013 12:38:27 GMT -5
It's akin to letting the foxes guard the henhouse...
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Post by helens on Jul 19, 2013 12:42:41 GMT -5
I agree with most of what you said Billy. However, in the case of GM, Chrysler and several other companies that the Obama admin bailed out, Those CEO's are spending tax payer money. They're spending bail out money which we taxpayers trusted our government to use wisely. And Helen, those CEO's pay taxes based on the rates set by our own Government. Wouldn't you give yourself a big tax break if this Admin said you could ? Of course you would, and you'd smile all the way to the bank. They aren't spending taxpayer money. We are long past that. The US Gov't bought their stocks from them basically. They are MAKING the US taxpayers money now, and have been for the past year. They not only aren't spending a penny of taxpayer money, we are profiting from our investment and they may even have paid us back in full by now (not sure about this).
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Post by helens on Jul 19, 2013 12:43:33 GMT -5
Those tax rates that Congress sets. See why these Republicans in Congress have to go. Glad you are starting to see the light.
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bushmanbilly
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Member since October 2008
Posts: 4,719
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Post by bushmanbilly on Jul 19, 2013 12:46:19 GMT -5
I agree with most of what you said Billy. However, in the case of GM, Chrysler and several other companies that the Obama admin bailed out, Those CEO's are spending tax payer money. They're spending bail out money which we taxpayers trusted our government to use wisely. And Helen, those CEO's pay taxes based on the rates set by our own Government. Wouldn't you give yourself a big tax break if this Admin said you could ? Of course you would, and you'd smile all the way to the bank. There was no need for the auto bailouts. The only need was the Unions votes for Barry. If they would have let nature take its coarse. These companies would have been taken over by private sector investors and rebuilt into successful and profitable businesses. The only losers would have been the unions and their bloated pensions. aka....Barry's voters.
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bushmanbilly
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Member since October 2008
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Post by bushmanbilly on Jul 19, 2013 12:49:27 GMT -5
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Post by helens on Jul 19, 2013 12:56:58 GMT -5
Imagine Detroit when the auto industry went the way of Pan Am. Tho I guess it would be impossible for Billy to whine MORE about Obama being responsible for Bush shipping jobs overseas.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2013 12:59:42 GMT -5
Mostly true, but the politicians justification for their outrageous pay is the CEO's pay... which can run up to a billion dollars a year, PLUS the perks like private jets, corporate yachts, and multiple corporate mansions in exotic vacation spots all over the world... all tax-exempt I might add, so not much different than us paying for it, since they get to deduct the full cost for these perks anyway. Not that Corporations need to deduct costs when some of them they pay 0% taxes now. In some cases, our elected officials are already working for 1000x less than a CEO makes. Why should they take a paycut to put up with abuse from the media and citizens? That's the argument, you have a better counter argument? So? Are they not supposed to be public servants? To defend these people in this fashion proves one thing. You are a statist.
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Post by deb193redux on Jul 19, 2013 12:59:57 GMT -5
a lot of bla bla wah wah, an old far with some good concerns about wise use of tax money, but otherwise seems to be an uninformed whiner complainer who proposes no real solutions - and more than ready to throw out divisive read herrings.
it is an old trick to mention large sums in absolute dollars instead of percent of total. but it is a TRICK. we do not need tricks.
national leader salaries are not out of line with private sector salaries, as Helen notes. The cost of maintaining any large building, large organization, large security enterprise ... etc. will look staggering in actual dollars when compared to individual income and individual family budgets. things like executive travel, or congressional dining rooms are a miniscule part of total spending, and really a red herring to focus on. (Some economies could be implemented in the spirit of general shared austerity, but lets not pretend these petty economies will solve budget problems.)
I will agree many elected officials are not performing their jobs. The nature of political process is compromise to build enough support for any legislation/spending. Anyone who got elected on a "no compromise platform" and who is obstructing the political process by drawing firm lines in the sand and refusing to budge one bit in political processes - well such people should be fired/recalled immediately. (IMO, they should ten be prosecuted for fraud, and pursued with civil suits until they pay for their injury to this country.)
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Post by jakesrocks on Jul 19, 2013 13:00:05 GMT -5
I agree with most of what you said Billy. However, in the case of GM, Chrysler and several other companies that the Obama admin bailed out, Those CEO's are spending tax payer money. They're spending bail out money which we taxpayers trusted our government to use wisely. And Helen, those CEO's pay taxes based on the rates set by our own Government. Wouldn't you give yourself a big tax break if this Admin said you could ? Of course you would, and you'd smile all the way to the bank. They aren't spending taxpayer money. We are long past that. The US Gov't bought their stocks from them basically. They are MAKING the US taxpayers money now, and have been for the past year. They not only aren't spending a penny of taxpayer money, we are profiting from our investment and they may even have paid us back in full by now (not sure about this). And just where did the U.S. Government get the money to buy their stocks ? Why from us, the working class taxpayers. (Oh, that's right. Obama doesn't need our tax dollars, does he ? He just instructs the Federal Reserve to print more). There is no free ride Helen. No matter how you try to twist the facts, it's still our money. And it will be many years before that money spent ever starts making money back for us, (which the Government will turn right around and waste again). Books can be and are cooked by this Admin every day. Don't believe a word they say about profits.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2013 13:00:57 GMT -5
They are MAKING the US taxpayers money now, and have been for the past year. Cool, will I see a refund check for my share of the proceeds?
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Post by helens on Jul 19, 2013 13:11:02 GMT -5
They aren't spending taxpayer money. We are long past that. The US Gov't bought their stocks from them basically. They are MAKING the US taxpayers money now, and have been for the past year. They not only aren't spending a penny of taxpayer money, we are profiting from our investment and they may even have paid us back in full by now (not sure about this). And just where did the U.S. Government get the money to buy their stocks ? Why from us, the working class taxpayers. (Oh, that's right. Obama doesn't need our tax dollars, does he ? He just instructs the Federal Reserve to print more). There is no free ride Helen. No matter how you try to twist the facts, it's still our money. And it will be many years before that money spent ever starts making money back for us, (which the Government will turn right around and waste again). Books can be and are cooked by this Admin every day. Don't believe a word they say about profits. Well gee, let me think. Which would I prefer... USING Taxpayer dollars to INVEST in US businesses and create more taxpayers (vs people sucking up unemployment instead), AND making absurd amounts of money for the US Treasury when foreigners buy up the newly recovered stocks (taking money from OTHER countries for our treasury)... OR Your preference. Paying those taxpayer dollars out for unemployment for those same auto workers who have no jobs at all in Detroit. Let me think. Let me think some more. Gee. I WANT TO WASTE TAXPAYER DOLLARS ON UNEMPLOYMENT, NOT CREATING MORE TAXPAYERS!!!! Who thinks like that? Oh yah, Republicans.
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Post by helens on Jul 19, 2013 13:13:24 GMT -5
They are MAKING the US taxpayers money now, and have been for the past year. Cool, will I see a refund check for my share of the proceeds? Course not. We have to pay the deficit with that money because Corporations and rich people pay no taxes. Something's got to make up the slack for the richest freeloaders.
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